Jump to content

My new big theory about Dorne & Aegon (& stuff)


Recommended Posts

My speculation (would not call it a theory) that the Greatjon may actually be dead was basically laughed at by you because Whoresbane believes he is alive. Whoresbane, who was told by the Lannisters/Freys/Boltons, who would all have a perfect reason to lie if the Greatjon was indeed dead.

I've had theories that people laughed off. I got over it.

And it's not just that Whoresbane thinks he's alive. Merrett Frey died knowing that the Greatjon was still alive, and we have yet to see any prisoners leave the Twins — Jaime ordered their release but it looks like it hasn't happened yet, probably because the guy who was riding to deliver the order got hanged. So you can't use that as evidence; it's not like the other prisoners have gotten out yet, either. If the Greatjon's fate was just to die in a Twins prison cell, why not just kill him off at the Red Wedding and be done with it?

But way to go off-topic?

and btw anyone know where I can read this Arianne chapter please and thank you.

You can't read the chapter in its entirety. It was read aloud at an event and we have only the synopsis. If you go to the Dance With Dragons board, the Winds of Winter sub-forum should have threads about the Arianne chapter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre, mainly because there is too much mention of the Blackfyre rebellions to it not to be of significance. With the possible age difference aside, I have only one question about this theory (sorry if you mentioned the answer but to be honest, I didn't read the whole post cuz it's hella long). Anyway, if Doran holds the real Aegon in Dorne. Why would he send Arianne to the Stormlands to meet 'Aegon?' It just doesn't add up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.westeros..../Darkstars_Age/

This SSM suggests that GRRM hasn't given much if any thought to Darkstar's age. If he had it in mind that Darkstar was the real Aegon, he could have said he was in his late teens or even given some clever, flippant response. That it looks like something he hasn't even contemplated — meaning that Darkstar's age is not that important — seems like a ding on the idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great theory, one of the reasons i have to believe it is Darkstar has the dark purple eyes of Rhagar and some of the Martell features (Strong Jaw, some Black hair, very dark black/purples eyes)where as YG has light purple purple eyes. But one problem I see with this theory is if Darkstar is so vital to Doran and his plans, why use him as a scape goat for the Myrcella incident and have people chasing after him.

I am not the originator of this theory, but my idea is that it is to satisfy the Lannisters with an "investigation and arrest warrant" while they are just collecting him to be sure that he is safely under the watch of Dorne, and not in any true danger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I quite like the theory, but I could easily see Doran on his own stitching up Varys, Illyrio and Connington. Its very possible for him to do so, and if they believe that he is on their side, getting close enough for him to stab them all in the back would be simple. And Varys isn't the loyal type, so I couldn't see him plotting for the real Targaryens out of out of mere reverence for them, and he gets a lot more benefits from the BBlackfyres if he proves vital in installing them on the throne and plus! Varys was good friends with Illyrio - why would he not help him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He expected Quentyn to fail and probably die. So he effectively sent him off to die.

It saddens me to say so (I loved Quentyn's character) but this may be true...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre, mainly because there is too much mention of the Blackfyre rebellions to it not to be of significance. With the possible age difference aside, I have only one question about this theory (sorry if you mentioned the answer but to be honest, I didn't read the whole post cuz it's hella long). Anyway, if Doran holds the real Aegon in Dorne. Why would he send Arianne to the Stormlands to meet 'Aegon?' It just doesn't add up?

To investigate YG

Maybe Varys is playing both sides. If YG dies, he has Darkstar. What I want to know is if this is true does Darkstar know that he is the rightful King?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whew, Okay. Not that I am finally finished reading your theory. Excellent points I must say. I like it.

So I'm just going to note a few thangs

  1. CONCLUSION 1: Darkstar = the real Aegon Targaryen (I can dig it)

  • I never once believed that Darkstar was a throw away character.I always felt like there was more to him, but I never thought that he could be the "real" Aegon.
  • He could be Aegon. Even though he and Arianne might appear to be different ages.She might consider him a peer because of his intellect,upbringing,qualifications, social status and not his age.

2. CONCLUSION 2: Varys didn't lie to Kevan. ( I can dig it)

  • I always thought that he was telling the truth also. It doesn't make sense for him to lie to a dying man, birds present or not.
  • What does he have to gain from lying to a dying man?

3. He expected Quentyn to fail and probably die. So he effectively sent him off to die. He knew Quentyn wouldn’t bring back the dragons. (I'm not sure about this one)

  • I think Doran knew that Dany would reject Q. I'm thinking that Doran's thoughts were he was expecting Dany to be arrogant, and that she would pull some crazy Targaryen shit. He knew she would never part with one of her dragons. He couldn't totally trust his blood with her. He had to test her out first.
  • So maybe, I'm thinking because he had the real Aegon, He didn't care if Dany rejected Q, he knew he had the upper hand, and Q could be expendable?
  • I just don't know that he would willing sacrifice his son. After all his own wife left because he sent Q off to squire which is a normal custom (Am I correct?). I'm thinking he wouldn't want to piss her off further by killing him.

4. CONCLUSION 4: Darkstar took Storm’s End, not Young Griff.

  • Why didn't I know about this Arianne chapter? :crying:

5. why Doran is so confident in his long-term plan that he endures his family’s mockery for years; CONCLUSION 3: Doran Martell is a sick genius

  • I must agree that he had to have a helluva long term plan to put up with such insolence from his family.
  • That is why I do believe that the Red Viper was part of the plan, so was his dying
  • I do believe in I forgot his names theory (sorry), that the Red Viper poisoned Tywin
  • I think that we will see more from the master of payback........

This was so much to think about I'll have to come back and do some serious adding & editing....................

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.westeros..../Darkstars_Age/

This SSM suggests that GRRM hasn't given much if any thought to Darkstar's age. If he had it in mind that Darkstar was the real Aegon, he could have said he was in his late teens or even given some clever, flippant response. That it looks like something he hasn't even contemplated — meaning that Darkstar's age is not that important — seems like a ding on the idea.

Does seem that way, doesn't it? Or perhaps he is even more clever than we give him credit for.

The question remains though, what is the deal with Darkstar, and why, five books in, is his story so important to tell?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great theory, one of the reasons i have to believe it is Darkstar has the dark purple eyes of Rhagar and some of the Martell features (Strong Jaw, some Black hair, very dark black/purples eyes)where as YG has light purple purple eyes. But one problem I see with this theory is if Darkstar is so vital to Doran and his plans, why use him as a scape goat for the Myrcella incident and have people chasing after him.

YG doesn't have light purple eyes....

Dany and Viserys and Ashara are noted to have lilac eyes however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the overall theory. Lets see. I think it is stretching it to assume that Quentin would die the way he did with resultant ramifications and that all of these somewhat random events were actually details of a plan. Lets just say that he sent Q to hitch up with Dany knowing he would be knocked back and assuming that dany would then owe him.??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the overall theory. Lets see. I think it is stretching it to assume that Quentin would die the way he did with resultant ramifications and that all of these somewhat random events were actually details of a plan. Lets just say that he sent Q to hitch up with Dany knowing he would be knocked back and assuming that dany would then owe him.??

That makes more sense, I agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the purpose of the trip was just to generally move Dorne & Dany closer together for an eventual alliance. Quentyn was just Doran's expendable pawn.

I think Quentyn's death will sadden Doran, not piss him off. Doran had to have known that Quentyn's death was probable on this quest.

I agree with the second statement, but not the first. I think Doran realizes that there is a possibility that Quentyn may die, but I don't think he viewed him as a pawn to be sacrificed for such a small return. Doran doesn't come across that way to me. The rest of the theory is just as good as any other and better than most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To investigate YG

Maybe Varys is playing both sides. If YG dies, he has Darkstar. What I want to know is if this is true does Darkstar know that he is the rightful King?

I know it is to investigate, but if they already have the real Aegon, why do they need to investigate when they know he is a fake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know it is to investigate, but if they already have the real Aegon, why do they need to investigate when they know he is a fake.

I would argue it's due diligence. Even if you know he's a fake, you can investigate to find the best way to bring about his demise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would argue it's due diligence. Even if you know he's a fake, you can investigate to find the best way to bring about his demise.

That seems fair, but at the same time, why send Arianne? Any of the Sand Snakes could do it if you know he is a fake. Why would he risk misfortune upon his heir and the lynchpin in his plans?

Another thing I just thought of. If he had the real Aegon (the true Targaryen heir) then why would he risk treason in arranging a deal to marry Arianne to Viserys?

Simple answer for me, Darkstar is just Gerold Dayne. Doran is hedging his bets. He knows Quentyn becoming Dany's king is a longshot. By sending Arianne you offer support to Aegon with a marriage and Arianne will be the queen. Better to have your son be king, but having your daughter queen is almost as good.

ETA: Cheese Pudding and I are thinking along the same lines

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...