My new big theory about Dorne & Aegon (& stuff)

[Mummer's Fart]

@A Bong of Ice and Fire : First off, your name is funny. Secondly, you left out the part where Varys is a Blackfyre himself and brother of Serra, who got castrated so a sorcerer could harness the power of a king's dick.

[The Fallen]

That seems fair, but at the same time, why send Arianne? Any of the Sand Snakes could do it if you know he is a fake. Why would he risk misfortune upon his heir and the lynchpin in his plans?

That's true. I'm just throwing out possibilities.

Another thing I just thought of. If he had the real Aegon (the true Targaryen heir) then why would he risk treason in arranging a deal to marry Arianne to Viserys?

The marriage, in and of itself, is not treason. Although claiming that Viserys is the heir and installing him as king, while knowing that the actual heir exists, would be treason.

Simple answer for me, Darkstar is just Gerold Dayne. Doran is hedging his bets. He knows Quentyn becoming Dany's king is a longshot. By sending Arianne you offer support to Aegon with a marriage and Arianne will be the queen. Better to have your son be king, but having your daughter queen is almost as good.

ETA: Cheese Pudding and I are thinking along the same lines

The odds are in your favor that Darkstar is simply Gerold. Couldn't have picked a better name for a guy who just is. He he

But I agree that Darkstar isn't just a throwaway character. And I'm itching to find out why Doran refers to him as "the most dangerous man in Dorne."

On a side note: Whey does everyone assume that Darkstar couldn't kill Myrcella? I always assumed that he meant to maim her, not kill her. Anyone else agree?

[7V3N]

I know it is to investigate, but if they already have the real Aegon, why do they need to investigate when they know he is a fake.

So they can say "Who the hell is this fake and let's find out before we reveal that they are liars." Find out how legitimate their case is.

[lostinwesteros]

Have never heard this theory before, and am not sure I have enough of a grasp of the Dornish to form a reliable opinion, but, as I say, I've never heard this before and it does make sense to me....but ... then, again, I guess I'm also kind of a diehard when it comes to Jon Snow being the 'true' Targaryen. Is that a theory (the Jon Snow one) that you're thinking has holes in it? Just wondering. :dunno:

[Lady Octarina]

It's an interesting theory, but I can't agree with all of it. I agree there's more to Dorne and Doran's plans than we've seen so far; too many pages for what seems to be a pointless plot. Haters gonna hate when we find out just how much of a political genius the guy is. But the thing is, Doran is an old, sick man who has lost far too much in his life; it wouldn't make sense for him to sacrifice his son and let his nephew (Darkstar, in you theory) risk his life with a wild reckless behavior - what would he accomplish with that? He would be doing all this in the name of what? Not family, since he'd be willing to sacrifice them. Maybe revenge, but if that's the case the character would lose much of its charm to me. No, that's not it.

He had a deeper plan concerning Quentyn that we don't know about yet, I accept that much. Young Griff is a Blackfyre, Illyrio's son; I agree. There's more to Darkstar than meets the eye; okay, but I'd rather go with the idea that he is Brandon and Ashara's son turned into a Dayne from High Hermitage maybe to diminish the main Daynes' shame. As to why Doran sees him as the most dangerous man in Dorne, as I've said a few times in the R+L=J threads, I think it's because both of them know about that, and whereas Doran has a plan in that respect, Darkstar has his own agenda that might risk all the careful calculations Doran made for 16 years.

And also, I just don't think Doran and Varys are allies. As far as we know, Varys' whispers/advices were one of the main reason why Aerys kept Elia and her children in King's Landing, therefore one of the reasons why they were brutally murdered. Doran may have allies we know nothing about yet, but I doubt Varys is among them. I have the beginning of a theory that his allies might be the Hightowers, but I don't have enough elements to develop this yet.

[Silmarien]

No less than I would expect from a BONG OF ICE AND FIRE. Doran Martell is not a fool. Neither was Quentyn. Read your books again, man. Don't criticize the Martin for things you can't understand. Read it again. And again. And again...the Dornish burn to avenge Elia's death. Haven't you gotten that by now? Jesus H. Christ.

Ahahaha. Hey now, that was a very long and well-thought out post for a stoner, you should be kinder. ;)

[7V3N]

Hey OP. Can you connect this theory of yours to Ashara Dayne? It seems like she should be included somehow. Maybe it is her son who is currently Young Griff, which is why she killed herself. Aegon is supposed to have been born a year or so before her death, which was not long after the death of her child.

[Mummer's Fart]

Ahahaha. Hey now, that was a very long and well-thought out post for a stoner, you should be kinder. ;)

Well that's judgmental.

[Silmarien]

Well that's judgmental.

Aw, wasn't meant to be. I can sympathize, I was in college once....;)

[Ran]

As already noted, Gerold Dayne is too old for Darkstar. Proof of the fact is that Martin couldn't even recall what age the character is supposed to be when asked on an occasion or two -- which shows that his age is not important to the story in any way. Which it would be were he 17-18 and in fact he was Aegon.

When GRRM doesn't want to say something, he won't. He won't lie about not remembering.

[dark sister]

Ahahaha. Hey now, that was a very long and well-thought out post for a stoner, you should be kinder. ;)

I know, you're totally right. I was tired at that point, though, and a little drunk. So I apologize to a Bong of Ice and Fire. I'll respond to the post more fully when I get the time, but as far as everything goes, I kind of agree with what everyone else has already said -- too many pages to waste on a pointless plot, and so on and so forth.

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Posted a similar theory in R+L=J:

Darkstar is Rhaegar's son but he is not Aegon.

Rhaegar's first son, Aegon, was killed by the Mountain just as everyone remembers along with Elia and his baby sister(funny no one ever comes up with theories about her still being alive).

Therefore, for the prophecy to be fulfilled the dragon must have three heads and since two were killed..... Rhaegar and Lyanna had triplets. One was Darkstar, fostered by a lesser Dayne, possibly raised knowing who he was. Aegon was another named for his murdered brother and possibly born the first of the three giving him legitimate right to the throne. He was raised in exile by Ashara posing as Lemore. The third was Jon, raised by his uncle up north.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

No less than I would expect from a BONG OF ICE AND FIRE. Doran Martell is not a fool. Neither was Quentyn. Read your books again, man. Don't criticize the Martin for things you can't understand. Read it again. And again. And again...the Dornish burn to avenge Elia's death. Haven't you gotten that by now? Jesus H. Christ.

Of course I get that. My point is, Doran's known plans to achieve that vengeance seem half-retarded and doomed to fail, and I am pretty sure that Doran is really quite savvy and dangerous. So I conclude that he must have a hidden ace that he hasn't revealed. Everything flows from that.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

@A Bong of Ice and Fire : First off, your name is funny. Secondly, you left out the part where Varys is a Blackfyre himself and brother of Serra, who got castrated so a sorcerer could harness the power of a king's dick.

Yeah, I agree with all that. So what do you think the sorcerer did with this dick power? Is it relevant to the story or not?

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

As already noted, Gerold Dayne is too old for Darkstar. Proof of the fact is that Martin couldn't even recall what age the character is supposed to be when asked on an occasion or two -- which shows that his age is not important to the story in any way. Which it would be were he 17-18 and in fact he was Aegon.

When GRRM doesn't want to say something, he won't. He won't lie about not remembering.

I looked but found no indication whatsoever of Gerold Dayne's age. We just know that he is young and studly. Why couldn't he be 18?

[Lord Paramount of Essos]

i like the theory cause im a dorne fan.

But i belive that if its true, then Varys's Griff will be an enemy to Doran's Darkstar. Its funny because that way Dorne has his claim, Varys and Illyrio theirs, LAnnister their claim, Dany wants to conquer Westeros and Stannis is still the Rightful King since Robert took the Throne by roght of conquest

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

The odds are in your favor that Darkstar is simply Gerold. Couldn't have picked a better name for a guy who just is. He he

But I agree that Darkstar isn't just a throwaway character. And I'm itching to find out why Doran refers to him as "the most dangerous man in Dorne."

Look, if the Prince of Dorne, who weighs all his words and actions very carefully, mentions that Gerold Dayne, a minor young lordling who should be beneath the notice of the Prince, is the "most dangerous man in Dorne", then we have to take this man very seriously. We cannot just say that "Gerold Dayne is just who he is".

Using logic (stoner's or otherwise), we can conclude that Darkstar is considered the "most dangerous man in Dorne" by the Prince for the following 3 potential reasons:

1. Darkstar is some super-amazing fighter, a young famed martial prodigy like Loras Tyrell or Barriston Selmy.

Yeah, I think no. There is nothing to indicate that he is a great fighter. Even if there was, that hardly makes him so "dangerous". This reason doesn't fly.

2. Darkstar has some secret knowledge that frightens the Prince.

Possible, I guess. But a young minor lordling should really have such dire secrets that can threaten a prince. No, I find the next reason more credible.

3. Darkstar is not who he seems to be.

This is the only believable explanation for the Prince's utterance. Darkstar MUST be someone else, hidden almost in plain sight by the Prince of Dorne. Given Gerold's very Targy-good looks (explained conveniently by him being a "Dayne"), it is reasonable to assume he of dragon's blood.

We know that Doran knows who Darkstar really is, otherwise he would never had said what he said about him. If he knows, it means he is hiding & protecting him.

Given Doran's desire for long-planned "fire and blood" for his enemies, and given Darkstar's "danger" and connection to the prince, we can conclude logically that Darkstar is an integral part of Doran's vengeance plan.

The only way Darkstar would be a strong weapon for Doran and fit into his known overall plan of allying the "true Targaryen King" with Dorne and crushing his enemies would be if Darkstar himself were a Targaryen crown prince.

It's all logical.

Now perhaps Darkstar is not the real Aegon Targaryen. Maybe he's a previously unknown son of Rhaegar, as another poster suggested. Or hell, maybe he's a 2nd fake Aegon, without dragon's blood.

Whatever the exact answer is, for Doran's plan, Darkstar is his "dragon" weapon.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Hey OP. Can you connect this theory of yours to Ashara Dayne? It seems like she should be included somehow. Maybe it is her son who is currently Young Griff, which is why she killed herself. Aegon is supposed to have been born a year or so before her death, which was not long after the death of her child.

I think Ashara Dayne is kind of a red herring. She was in the story to help us understand how beautiful and exotic-looking the Daynes are. She also was used to provide some background info about younger Barristan Selmy and Brandon Stark, and to create some mystery and misdirection about Ned's bastard son.

Otherwise I think she has no role in the story. OF COURSE, I could be dead wrong, and maybe she is living and is Septa Mordane or something. To be honest I haven't dug too deeply into the Ashara theories, as they seem kind of pointless to me (unless GRRM wants to use her to reveal R+L=J, but I think that would be better done via Howland Reed).

[Mummer's Fart]

Yeah, I agree with all that. So what do you think the sorcerer did with this dick power? Is it relevant to the story or not?

I don't know, I was only half joking about the power of a king's dick. Either it was used in a spell like Varys said, or he was castrated to end the Blackfyre line, or both. Never underestimate what you can do with a king's dick, it can go anywhere...

Aw, wasn't meant to be. I can sympathize, I was in college once.... ;)

I don't get it, does a college degree shield you from baseless accusations of stupidity from pot use? Alcohol does more to alter your long term brain function than marijuana, and it's more addictive with an added dash of unhealthiness. I was in college too, and I still love my weed! In fact being a regular user, I'm less likely to develop cancer than a non-weed smoker. Cheers!

EDITED for spelling mistakes as a result of marijuana usage

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

I don't know, I was only half joking about the power of a king's dick. Either it was used in a spell like Varys said, or he was castrated to end the Blackfyre line, or both. Never underestimate what you can do with a king's dick, it can go anywhere...

I don't get it, does a college degree shield you from baseless accusations of stupidity from pot use? Alcohol does more to alter your long term brain function than marijuana, and it's more addictive with an added dash of unhealthiness. I was in college too, and I still love my weed! In fact being a regular user, I'm less likely to develop cancer than a non-weed smoker. Cheers!

EDITED for spelling mistakes as a result of marijuana usage

Amen to the Seven, brother! By far the more dangerous drugs than marijuana are alcohol, tobacco, and processed foods. I indulge in none of those, only in nature's gift - the sweet leaf. And I'm far out of college.

Weed makes me calm and peaceful, which helps me in everything.