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unforgiven

Just Read RW (Spoilers)

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Them sewing Grey wind's head on Robb was very depressing.

Yea that really bothered me as well. The Frey's not only murdered the Starks in the most shameful and cowardly manner possible in the world of Westeros, but they had to desecrate the bodies? Really? If it's any solace the Starks will rule Winterfell and the north again, Jojen has seen it ;)

I do think that the Freys will be hit by a shit storm in good time, hopefully the Greatjon will manage to escape. Also I'm excited to see what happens with Robb legitimizing Jon before he died. I think this will eventually have something to do with releasing Jon from his vows on the wall.

Anyways, some people complain that the books tend to be slow, but I really enjoy the character development, and from what I've seen from Jon in aSoS and more so from the beginning of feast, I think he has cool, calm, calculating mind and that he wants revenge for his bro. So who knows, maybe it'll be Jon who will bring justice to the Freys, though GRRM isn't usually so romantic.

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Brilliant wasn't it? How he littered the narrative with all the hints that something isn't quite right and how it all hits Cat at once, too late. How the musicians were terrible and how all of a sudden they swapped instruments for crossbows. I swear, it was like the famous murder in The Godfather (assassins jumping up from behind a seemingly innocent looking toll booth) but tens times worse.

My friends and and girlfriend (who haven't read the books) couldn't understand my excitement when 'The Rains of Castamere' showed up in the TV series, the strong feelings attached to it. Can't wait to see this scene portrayed in the series.

I have a feeling I will just be sat there sobbing at the TV... it's going to be ugly... I'm going to be such a baby when that scene comes around. I'll just sit here hoping that Season 3 rewrites itself and Robb doesn't actually die.... wishful thinking always hurts when you know it won't happen.

Them sewing Grey wind's head on Robb was very depressing.

It was extremely depressing, a bit digusting. What they did was already dishonorable, but that just made it a million times worse...

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unbelievable, i had to go back and read it agai to make sure i had read it right (as I did with Neds death). It was a book dropping moment!

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Yeah, I remember finishing reading it just as I got off the train in NYC. It was so horrible that I felt like jumping 50 feet down from the train platform. I immediately called my wife to tell her that I had just read the worst thing in my life. I was so shock because like Cat I really believed that the Laws of Hospitality had them covered. So while not trusting the Freys the worst that I expected was for them to imprison Robb and Cat or something like that.

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Just through it since yesterday and it was ugly, i could image it all and well I know we will become sort of this on the TV series and I think I don't like to see it, because the images in my head are sure enough... :stillsick: but that's one thing and I have to say it makes a good writer, that I read and have a clear movie playing in my head, and thinking back on the second book and the fights and the first book I was more terrified and scared and all by reading the entire stuff then watching it on TV I think GRRM catches it all better in words then every picture can do :dunno:

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I found it to be both horrific and wonderful. Horrific because, though Robb and Catelyn were not my favorite characters, I had come to know them and love them in a sort of way, and they represented the hope that somehow the good and noble House Stark might yet prevail. Now they are a broken house, and Westeros will remember them as usurpers and traitors, which is why I find it to also be wonderful - because of the strength and emotional power it adds to the narrative.

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It was definetly one of those throw the book down and scream "Damn you George Martin!" moments.. Robb and Cat were not my favorite characters, but I totally agree that attaching Grey Winds head to Robb's body was the worse part of it.

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The odd thing is that Greywind knew all along it seems :(

We all know from Bran and Arya's POVs that the Starks have a supernatural connection to the direwolves, yet Robb basically ignored Grey Wind's warning (if it was a warning, I believe it was) for the sake of acting the part of a king and trying to keep the Freys on his side in the war. Honestly, I can't say I think he was wrong in continuing on to the wedding, but I still think he should've been more cautious.

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agh, im re-reading asos now and dreading this chapter. I agree with the animal lovers in this thread, the death of Greywind and then the sewing....real sad.

I found a picture not long ago thats pretty striking...http://th01.devianta...rhy-d4ahrp2.jpg

When I think of how they not only murdered Robb, but desecrated his body too, it makes my blood boil. The Freys and Boltons better pay for this. Fucking slimy cowards.

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When I think of how they not only murdered Robb, but desecrated his body too, it makes my blood boil. The Freys and Boltons better pay for this. Fucking slimy cowards.

I know aSoIaF is a grey World and by now we are all used to it but I really hope Martin will give us some good old vengeance.

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did you guys realize that Dany saw this scene of the RW while she was at the house of the undying, in book 2? she sees some corpses with wine goblets, and also sees "a man with a wolfs head sewn in the place of his own head in a scene that seemed like a "feast". i'm really curious to know what are the implications of the starks' storyline with dany's in the future.

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did you guys realize that Dany saw this scene of the RW while she was at the house of the undying, in book 2? she sees some corpses with wine goblets, and also sees "a man with a wolfs head sewn in the place of his own head in a scene that seemed like a "feast". i'm really curious to know what are the implications of the starks' storyline with dany's in the future.

I noticed this as well. I believe Dany's story is connected to the Starks' in the matter of Jon Snow's heritage and that it will be revealed in either The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. I don't want to say too much, because there are entire threads dedicated to the theory, but it seems logical given the nature of A Song of Ice and Fire and also of Martin's writing style.

If you go back and re-read the House of the Undying scene, you may pick up on what I'm talking about.

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I just never liked Robb too much. And fully expected him to die eventually. But I'm a HUGE fan of Roose Bolton's cloak.

Here here!! Here's to the Lord of the Dreadfort, and Warden of the North!

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Gabriel, yes I noticed that as well. Pretty awesome. I pay super close attention to prophecies and dreams now that I'm re-reading the series. In Aryas chapters of aSoS, the old crone that visits her and her companions has some good ones, i believe she prophesizes Catelyns un-fate among other things.

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Someone spoiled the RW for me before I read it, but I remember being shocked that they sew the head of Grey Wind on his corpse. Robb had to die, though, there is no way he would end up winning the war.

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Someone spoiled the RW for me before I read it, but I remember being shocked that they sew the head of Grey Wind on his corpse. Robb had to die, though, there is no way he would end up winning the war.

Robb was a pretty damn good battle commander, and most certainly could have won the war and ended up on the iron throne if he wanted to. What ultimately led to his demise was a series of very bad decisions on his part and those around him, as well as some bad luck.

Firstly allowing Theon to go was stupid, for reasons we don't need to get into here. Marrying Jeyne was a moronic move, and characteristic of Stark "honour" coming back to bight them in the ass. He sewed discord within his camp to protect the girl's honour and for what? If he really has to hots for her he can keep her as a concubine, which was pretty normal to do in those days. Secondly Cat releases Jaime allowing Walder Frey to go through with the RW. If Jaime was in a Riverrun dungeon there's no way in hell Tywin would dare pull off anything remotely similar to the RW. Cat basically threw away any insurance they had.

As far as luck goes, Robb was unlucky to have his aunt Lysa rule the Vale. It's revealed that the Arryn bannermen and the great houses of the Vale were practically in open revolt over Lysa's failure to join Robb's cause. If someone else was in power, it seems very likely the Vale would have made common cause with the Starks, in which case Robb would be ruling over the North, the Riverlands and the Vale, making a Lannister victory all the more unlikely.

Robb crushed Lannister forces every time they met in the field and posed a very real threat to Lannisport and Casterly Rock. There's every reason to believe that Robb would have been able to depose Joffrey on his own, even without a Baratheon alliance.

Let's discuss! :)

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^I think he meant that at that point in the story Robb could not have won. The Ironmen had taken a large part of the North, he had lost his castle and heirs (or so he thought), The Lannisters were firmly in control of King's Landing and had allied with the Tyrells (who happen to be the second-richest house), and the Vale was clearly not coming to his aid. The Karstarks had deserted him as well. He then compounds his misfortune by pissing off one of his key allies

At best, if the Red Wedding had not happened, Robb could have swept away the Greyjoys in the North while the Riverlords were crushed in the South by Joffrey's forces

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