The Great Other

[thetitansbastard]

Then why do all the red priests we see have magical powers? Thoros, Melissandre, and Morroqo - all have proven magical powers. R'hllor is real. The old gods also have power which has been proven - the three eyed crow, brans powers, Jojens powers, and the fact that Bloodraven is somehow kept alive by tree roots. Oh and that the entrance to the caves beyond the wall where Bran is possesses magical wards that keep out the others.

There's magic all over the place caused by ????. I don't think it proves the existence of individual gods

[manting]

so its a coincidence that the Red Priests have magic powers? So far they have 1. Brought the dead back multiple times 2. Enable people to light their swords on fire with their own blood 3. See the future and what is transpiring far away 4. Made a shadow assassin baby monster 5. heal a poisoned/infected hand and make it somehow stronger 6. Cover a dude in illusion that makes him appear as someone else 7. Perceive danger to themselves -- - Yet none of the maesters who studies the higher mysteries have gained magic powers at this point. I believe that dragons returning didn't completely bring back magic - it simply rekindled it. Specifically fire based magic. The power of the old gods never went away - the warning from the old gods in the very beginning of AGoT when they find the dire wolves - the mother dire wolf was killed by a stag antler - this occurs before the Dragons are reborn.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I tihnk it's only Melisandre who started this whole "Great Other" kind of praise for whatever this "deity" turns out to be. While it CAN be true that the GO is actually the harbinger/God of the acual others, I think it is far from saying it WILL be true.

Like other poster's have stated, we only have Melisandre as the real teacher of R'hllor, and all the labels/judgements/opinions she has is veilied and cultivated from the veil of fanaticism and obsession she carries for the Red Religion.

[Reek Da Villain]

Every army has a general. Every species has an alpha.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

so its a coincidence that the Red Priests have magic powers? So far they have 1. Brought the dead back multiple times 2. Enable people to light their swords on fire with their own blood 3. See the future and what is transpiring far away 4. Made a shadow assassin baby monster 5. heal a poisoned/infected hand and make it somehow stronger 6. Cover a dude in illusion that makes him appear as someone else 7. Perceive danger to themselves -- - Yet none of the maesters who studies the higher mysteries have gained magic powers at this point. I believe that dragons returning didn't completely bring back magic - it simply rekindled it. Specifically fire based magic. The power of the old gods never went away - the warning from the old gods in the very beginning of AGoT when they find the dire wolves - the mother dire wolf was killed by a stag antler - this occurs before the Dragons are reborn.

Could it not be that what they've done is learn to harness the magic of fire? Much like the Others have learned to harness the magic of cold/ice?

Could they be ascribing "magic" to one god or (an)other, when it's simply magic?

Some of the "gods" we've been shown to have power aren't actually Gods at all. The "Old Gods" appear to just be ancient greenseers who's consciousness is living on through their weirwoods, not too dissimilar from a skin-changer taking a "second life" in an animal.

Are the gods actually there, or are these ritualistic magic users just attributing their magic to Gods. Which is interesting, because, apparently, most of this magic didn't work until very recently.

If magic returns to the world in "cycles" can you really attribute it to "gods" or to some other naturally ocurring phenomenon?

[Esa1996]

Ok so this has been bugging me for a while now. Why does every one assume the others are led by or spawned by some Great Other? All we have heard of the evil of the Red God faith is that The great other is the antagonistic deity to R'hllor. I see no evidence of it having any relation to the others other than name yet people keep brining it up.

The only possible connection i could see is Azor Azai defeated the others, and Melisandre keeps referencing him. But the great other is just that faiths equivalent of the stranger, or the storm god. Just because the others and AA are connected, does not mean that 'The Great Other' is an actual person or being, just another religious deity. Or am i missing something?

I did this exact same post a few months ago, so you're not alone.

My post:

"The Great Other" is a god. Not a leader of the Others. He might be the god of the Others but he doesn't ride in the front of the Others' army and give commands. Neither does R'hllor. Why? Because neither one of them have a physical body. The are gods not battle commanders!

Where did I get the idea that "The Great Other" wouldn't be the war commander or king of the Others? I don't think Melisandre means the leader of the Others when she mentions "The Great Other". I think she just means a different god from Rhllor. She doesn't say "The Great White Walker" which would certainly mean the leader of the Others. Just as well as saying "The Great Other" she could say "The Great Different God".

[manting]

Could it not be that what they've done is learn to harness the magic of fire? Much like the Others have learned to harness the magic of cold/ice?

Could they be ascribing "magic" to one god or (an)other, when it's simply magic?

Some of the "gods" we've been shown to have power aren't actually Gods at all. The "Old Gods" appear to just be ancient greenseers who's consciousness is living on through their weirwoods, not too dissimilar from a skin-changer taking a "second life" in an animal.

Are the gods actually there, or are these ritualistic magic users just attributing their magic to Gods. Which is interesting, because, apparently, most of this magic didn't work until very recently.

If magic returns to the world in "cycles" can you really attribute it to "gods" or to some other naturally ocurring phenomenon?

Could it not be that what they've done is learn to harness the magic of fire? Much like the Others have learned to harness the magic of cold/ice?

Could they be ascribing "magic" to one god or (an)other, when it's simply magic?

Some of the "gods" we've been shown to have power aren't actually Gods at all. The "Old Gods" appear to just be ancient greenseers who's consciousness is living on through their weirwoods, not too dissimilar from a skin-changer taking a "second life" in an animal.

Are the gods actually there, or are these ritualistic magic users just attributing their magic to Gods. Which is interesting, because, apparently, most of this magic didn't work until very recently.

If magic returns to the world in "cycles" can you really attribute it to "gods" or to some other naturally ocurring phenomenon?

The Old Gods is not just the greenseers. As I stated earlier the direwolf in the very begining of AGoT is a sign/omen/portent sent by the old gods. The dire wolf has an antler in its neck from a stag - meaning that it is a warning about house Baratheon and the downfall of house Stark. Also the dire wolf puppies were sent to protect all the Stark children. Warging has never gone away - just read Varamyrs POV chapter that starts DoD - he has been warging for over 20 years and he learns it from someone else.

R'hllor is real in that prayers to him are answered with MAGIC.

Do I think the 7 have any power - no -the seven is like christianity - totally made up.

As for the old gods being real look up info on the Hammer of the Waters.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

The Old Gods is not just the greenseers. As I stated earlier the direwolf in the very begining of AGoT is a sign/omen/portent sent by the old gods. The dire wolf has an antler in its neck from a stag - meaning that it is a warning about house Baratheon and the downfall of house Stark. Also the dire wolf puppies were sent to protect all the Stark children. Warging has never gone away - just read Varamyrs POV chapter that starts DoD - he has been warging for over 20 years and he learns it from someone else.

R'hllor is real in that prayers to him are answered with MAGIC.

Do I think the 7 have any power - no -the seven is like christianity - totally made up.

As for the old gods being real look up info on the Hammer of the Waters.

Could the Direwolf not have been sent by a Greenseer? Maybe even Bloodraven himself?

As for the hammer of waters, no one is disputing the magic is real, but is the magic just magic or is there really some "God" behind it? We've seen several examples of magic existing without praying to any "God". What if these prayers to R'hllor aren't the magic, but the fire and blood contains it's own magic, that these followers are simply attributing to some God of Light...

[manting]

Tower of Joy you pose a good point - its just that the abilities of the Red Priests/priestesses are so far beyond every other character who uses magic. Their ability to see the future and harm to themselves (which melisandre states she has been able to do for a long long time) predates the return of dragons.

I think Rhllor is real but Im now not 100% sure.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Tower of Joy you pose a good point - its just that the abilities of the Red Priests/priestesses are so far beyond every other character who uses magic. Their ability to see the future and harm to themselves (which melisandre states she has been able to do for a long long time) predates the return of dragons.

I think Rhllor is real but Im now not 100% sure.

Yeah, I flip-flop back and forth on this one, and can't make up my mind either, but I recognize both sides to the argument. The problem is that I'm not sure that we'll ever get a definitive answer to this one as I don't know how you'd know whether it's just fire magic or God sent visions, etc...