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Jon Snow's true identity is.....................Jon Snow


AegonTargaryen

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Firstly I decided to post in the still reading section to ensure no spoilers and to discuss with folks who are at the same place in the series.

Okay, so there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. What mostly comes to mind is the Tower of Joy, the Kingsguard with Lyanna, The blue winter rose on a wall of ice in the house of the undying, and so on and so forth.

Also, I find it a little odd that we are always reminded of Jon's burnt hand, I feel like there's going to be something up with that.

Anyways, at this point I would be SHOCKED if Jon was actually Ned Stark's bastard from Wylla. I was wondering if there was any evidence of Jon being who Ned says he is. I don't recall Ned ever explicitly saying that Jon is his son, only that he is his "blood".

So, suppose yourself at a trial trying to argue that Jon is Ned's bastard from Wylla, what evidence would you present to refute the R+L=J theory? And which theory would the jury support in your opinion?

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Ned calls Jon his son many times, he wouldn't have been able to get away with it otherwise. Also, there's just too much evidence that points to R+L=J to be putting forth anything that would refute it. The evidence for Wylla and Eddard is so weak it's not even worth mentioning.

If you want specifics, check out the general forum section and the R+L=J threads.

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Indeed. While I think this is a really nice idea for a thread, I am somewhat afraid that it is doomed to fail in its very beginning. Just look at the inconsistencies, there are like three different explanations I can recall from the top of my head mentioned in the book about who Jon Snow's mother is. If it was Wylla, like Ned Stark says, why do several different people have some different versions? There is no support of that I can recall. Which is in a way a pity. But that's just it.

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Alright folks I thought of something and I'd like some insight. In trying to evaluate the R+L=J theory, wouldn't Wylla's appearance provide the potential to refute the theory? Here's my reasoning,

Let's assume Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. He's a new born so after Ned promises to protect the kid, he doesn't know how he will turn out. He may turn out with Stark features (which he did) or he may turn out with clear Targaryen features, in which case people start asking questions. Therefore, if the R+L=J is true, the woman that Ned must pass off as Jon's mother must have Targaryen features (which are relatively rare in Westeros) or else people might put two and two together. If Wylla has dark hair dark eyes then we can conclude one of two things, either Jon isn't Rhaegar's son, or Ned is a moron. IF however Wylla has clear Targaryen features (a la Dayne) then it would lend some more credence to the theory, as Ned would be protecting against the possibility that Jon will grow up to look like Rhaegar.

Is Wylla's appearance ever discussed? I can't recall.

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Ned never actually *says* Wylla is Jon's mother. When Robert was talking about it with him in AGoT, Robert assumes it is Wylla, and Ned doesn't confirm or deny anything, but changes the subject. I don't think he's ever said who Jon's mother is supposed to be or really tried to "pass off" anyone as Jon's mother, so I don't know how much Wylla's appearance matters. Instead of trying to pretend someone else is Jon's mother he seems to have employed the strategy of just not talking about it, ever. (In fact doesn't Catelyn think Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother? If Ned was really trying to pretend Wylla was Jon's mother I think he would have told Cat as much.)

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Ned never actually *says* Wylla is Jon's mother. When Robert was talking about it with him in AGoT, Robert assumes it is Wylla, and Ned doesn't confirm or deny anything, but changes the subject. I don't think he's ever said who Jon's mother is supposed to be or really tried to "pass off" anyone as Jon's mother, so I don't know how much Wylla's appearance matters. Instead of trying to pretend someone else is Jon's mother he seems to have employed the strategy of just not talking about it, ever. (In fact doesn't Catelyn think Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother? If Ned was really trying to pretend Wylla was Jon's mother I think he would have told Cat as much.)

No, I think actually it is so that when Ned and Robert are talking in GoT, Robert says something like "and you had this woman... what was her name?" Then he names a couple of random names and Ned, apparently seeing that there is no way out of there, says "Wylla". So he does say it. And I think that might be the best argument the author of this thread might get.

The fact that Cat thinks it's somebody else comes from gossip inside the castle (presumably from people who also had been in the war). When she approaches Ned about it, she is rebuked and Ned does not tell her anything and makes her not to speak of that again. But this is just what I said above about there being several different versions of which woman it was, and this theory - which Cat believes still - is one of them.

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No, I think actually it is so that when Ned and Robert are talking in GoT, Robert says something like "and you had this woman... what was her name?" Then he names a couple of random names and Ned, apparently seeing that there is no way out of there, says "Wylla". So he does say it. And I think that might be the best argument the author of this thread might get.

The fact that Cat thinks it's somebody else comes from gossip inside the castle (presumably from people who also had been in the war). When she approaches Ned about it, she is rebuked and Ned does not tell her anything and makes her not to speak of that again. But this is just what I said above about there being several different versions of which woman it was, and this theory - which Cat believes still - is one of them.

You could read that as Ned confirming the name of his bastard's mother, or you could read it as Ned just naming the woman that Robert is thinking of without really saying whether she is Jon's mother. It's discussed on this page: http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html

Even if he's OK with Robert believing it is Wylla, I see no evidence of an organized attempt on Ned's part to "pass off" Wylla as the mother with a large number of people. I think he desperately wants to avoid actually lying about this as much as possible, and would rather just let people believe what they want as long as it is not the truth.

I know Catelyn heard about Ashara Dayne from castle gossip, not Ned--what I meant was that if Ned's plan was to pretend Wylla is the mother, he would have given her name to Cat, and she wouldn't think it was Ashara Dayne.

*EDIT* I put the wrong link earlier, now fixed.

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As another poster mentioned I was under the impression that Ned had explicitly confirmed to Robert that Wylla was the mom. Also Edric Dayne mentions that he and Jon were "milk brothers" or something along those lines. This would seem to indicate that Jon had spent a part of his early life in Starfall or am I missing something? Would someone expand on how Ned and Jon found themselves down in Starfall with the Daynes?

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As another poster mentioned I was under the impression that Ned had explicitly confirmed to Robert that Wylla was the mom. Also Edric Dayne mentions that he and Jon were "milk brothers" or something along those lines. This would seem to indicate that Jon had spent a part of his early life in Starfall or am I missing something? Would someone expand on how Ned and Jon found themselves down in Starfall with the Daynes?

I think when Edric Dayne says they are "milk brothers" it is only because he is under the impression that Wylla is Jon's mother, and since Wylla nursed Edric he considers Jon his "milk brother." I don't think Jon was ever in the same room as Edric Dayne or that Edric Dayne had ever seen Jon with Wylla.

As to Ned explicitly confirming to Robert that Wylla is Jon's mother, again, it depends on how you read that passage.

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As another poster mentioned I was under the impression that Ned had explicitly confirmed to Robert that Wylla was the mom. Also Edric Dayne mentions that he and Jon were "milk brothers" or something along those lines. This would seem to indicate that Jon had spent a part of his early life in Starfall or am I missing something? Would someone expand on how Ned and Jon found themselves down in Starfall with the Daynes?

It is considered treason to lie to the King. Hence, Ned answering Robert's question regarding the identity of Jon's mother with "Wylla". It was a clever way to capatilize on the ambiguity of the word

since we know from little Ned's conversation with Arya that Wylla was Jon Snow's "milk mother" (e.g. wet nurse) for a period of time, probably in Dorne.

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I'm into the Lyanna and Rheagar Theory too makes sense, as much pieces as we get about it all as much is left open and it is parts both of 'em got told, Dany and Jon, so there must be a reason for why are them get the information and why they fit into one and other. Plus it makes sense that Ned never told Robert about who Johns mother was, image what Robert would have done to Jon if he would have known something like hey he is half Tagaryen and Half Lyanna's blood we won't have a Jon in the books now, and only because Wylla was Jon's Milk Mother only means he got Milk frojm her, probably because Lyanna was dead and Ned promised her (something) to take care about it and keep Jon and the secret save... :dunno:

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As another poster mentioned I was under the impression that Ned had explicitly confirmed to Robert that Wylla was the mom. Also Edric Dayne mentions that he and Jon were "milk brothers" or something along those lines. This would seem to indicate that Jon had spent a part of his early life in Starfall or am I missing something? Would someone expand on how Ned and Jon found themselves down in Starfall with the Daynes?

He went to Starfall to return the greatsword Dawn that Arthur Dayne has, it was mentioned, before he returned back to Winterfell.

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It's kind of weird that when Rhaegar read the mystery message in the scroll it's Wyll/Will whatshisname he goes to immediately.

Reading this series is like studying the imagists in college. I start seeing a symbol/signifier/archetype in everything.

SEE HOW ALL OF THE SENTENCES END IN PUNCTUATION??? THAT'S GOTTA MEAN SOMETHING, RIGHT?

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It's kind of weird that when Rhaegar read the mystery message in the scroll it's Wyll/Will whatshisname he goes to immediately.

Reading this series is like studying the imagists in college. I start seeing a symbol/signifier/archetype in everything.

SEE HOW ALL OF THE SENTENCES END IN PUNCTUATION??? THAT'S GOTTA MEAN SOMETHING, RIGHT?

I agree. Anytime someone says anything as an aside, I take it as a clue for something and start formulating a theory. It's exhausting, really.

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The thing is though, I thought the Targaryens always have children with blonde hair, so how come Jon has dark hair?

For most of the Targaryen history they married brother to sister, so the children all tended to have the silver hair and purple eyes characteristic of Targaryens. Though it's stated that Rhaenys, Rhaegar's daughter from Elia Martell, had dark and brown eyes, whereas baby Aegon looked like Rhaegar, with the Targaryen silver hair and purple eyes. So we can assume that Jon just took after Lyanna, if the speculation is true.

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