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A Certain Wedding (MEGASPOILERS)


Christopher

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I was more surprised that the Boltons betrayed the Starks,

Like the title says, it's all a Game to these people. Roose thinks Bran and Rickon are dead so if he gets rid of Robb the North is his. It's like Cat said to Rob about Jon Snow, if he made him legitimate Robb's heir's would never be safe.

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The Red Wedding was really a shocker. I read it and went back to somehow find a line or two that I missed that identified it as a dream.

I was rather hopeful and excited for Edmund's bedding, which turned out to be red for wrong reasons......

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[Moderator]

Please respect the threads where people are discussing the books in the context of not having finished the books yet. Think about what you're posting, before you post. Further violations of the spoiler rule in these threads will be met with sanctions. Thank you.

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I knew things were not going to be good as soon as Robb betrayed the Freys. I was totally on pins and needles just like Cat. I loved all the foreshadowing though:

- the band being bad

- the bride crying and frightened

- the food being gross

- Greywind acting up

- The fact that Olyvar and some other young Freys were missing

- (my personal favorite) Sandor Clegane kept referring to it as the "bloody wedding" and "your bloody brother"

I really hope there is some justice later. I keep noting how often the guest right is brought up. Particularly of note is the Bran chapter in the Nightfort where he talks about the Rat Cook. In the Rat Cook story, the punishment wasn't for the other atrocious acts, but for violating the guest right. Another example is Jaimie. He violated the guest right when he pushed Bran out the window and later got his hand cut off.

Yeah but despite all these foreshadowing hints, I still never saw it coming. The crappy band I just attributed to the Frey's lack of taste in music (or not wanting to spend the money on a decent band), the crying bride was understandable (i.e. getting cold feet on her wedding day), Grey Wind acting up was nothing too out of the ordinary, and the missing Frey's didn't concern me. It was only afterwards, in hindsight, that I realized I should have picked up on these hints.

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Also, was it really necessary for Walder Frey to sew Grey Wind's head onto Robb's shoulders? That was just disturbing on so many levels. Walder Frey needs to die a horrible death!

And of course, the Red Wedding was a vision Daenerys had in the House of the Undying back in Qarth.

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Am I the only one who did not feel anything during the Red Wedding? It seems like everyone was deeply hurt lol Robb was never a PoV character and Catelyn was such a **** to Jon Snow. I just don't see what the big deal is. Am I the only one?

I doubt you are the only one, but I doubt that that big of a percentage of readers felt the way you do. I was certainly devastated when I read it. I actually threw my Kindle across the room and didn't pick it up for a few days.

The hints were of course all there. And I knew something wasn't right. When reading the chapters leading up to it, I felt a deep sense of foreboding. But I certainly did not see the extent or the completeness of the betrayal and defeat coming.

Gabriel Gubert,

i did have tears in my eyes when i stopped reading, but it was mostly because of Arya, since i thought that the hound had killed her.

I've seen this thought expressed quite a bit about that chapter, and honestly I don't understand it. I've seen people talk about whether the HBO series was going to have the "cliff hanger" with Arya and whether the Hound had killed her or not. To me, that was not a cliff hanger, and I don't think it was intended to be. It honestly never even crossed my mind that he might have killed her. He obviously could have killed her at any point if he wanted to. If he wanted her dead, all he would have had to do is let her go through the gate. That would have nearly assured her death. And it was clear to me he didn't want her to go through the gate because he knew she'd be killed, and that he knocked her out to save her life.

But you certainly aren't the only one that interpreted that scene that way.

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I was spoiled before it happened but it still left me needing a break from the series (probably only a very short one mind, I'm still hooked). I wasn't even a big Robb or Catelyn fan, I liked them but I wasn't going to get invested knowing what happened. But, even so, it left me numb and sad - mostly for Arya and Sansa. The chapters following the wedding were the ones I needed time for because I hated Tywin, I hated the Freys and I hated Roose Bolton, so reading about their triumph afterwards made me furious. I need justice GRRM!

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First post, yay.

I was equal parts devastated and furious when I read it, even if the signs of a betrayal of major proportions were all there.

I was so pissed off with Robb for not trusting Grey Wind - on numerous occasions.

I was angry with all the parties involved in the betrayals, mostly by Bolton I think. I've got nothing but hatred for them.

I was so sad for Catelyn dying believing that all her children are dead.

Thinking back, I think Robb's biggest mistake was not marrying a Frey (Roslin, most likely) when they first passed the Twins heading South. Had he done so at that point, the entire Jeyne Westerling situation would have been avoided altogether, the Freys would have been bound by marriage to ensure their loyalty - even if Robb's war didn't go so well, and Bolton would certainly have had second thoughts about his part of the betrayal as well.

It could only happen with all of them in on it. Without Frey or Bolton, the Red Wedding could never have happened. And Robb already married to a Frey would have ensured Walder would get his queen, even if she was "only" Queen in the North. Robb could have crossed back using the Twins and secured Moat Cailin even without Bolton, and while that would most likely leave the rest of the Riverlands vulnerable to a Lannister/Tyrell attack, they could have reformed and then marched back south later.

That said, I believe Robb had to die. IMO, the Starks bound for greatness are Jon, Bran and Arya, maybe even Sansa. Don't know about Rickon. Robb had fulfilled his role by the time he had to retreat back to the North. Had he actually managed to return, we could have closed that part of the story altogether with a nice and fat "and they lived happily ever after..." He had to die for the story to live on.

I hated Cat as well, but I still felt so sorry for her. Everything she did, she did out of love for her children, and up until the Red Wedding, she was the only character to have lost everything she held dear. Robb was the only thing she had left, and she had to watch him die.

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I was shocked. I put the book down and asked myself, "Did I just read that?"

BUT, the three things that I picked up on were Grey Wind, the absence of important people, and something no one else seemed to notice: the fact that he gave Edmure a cute little wife... that REALLY jumped out at me. That was my biggest, "Uh oh...."

I'm still shocked actually. I just read it last night. AND THANKS FOR TELLING ME WHAT HAPPENED TO ROBB'S BODY, I haven't read that far yet!

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The title has (MEGASPOILERS) in it. Using your foreshadowing skills of Edmure and his hot wife, you could've figured that some storyline might be given away.

The title of this thread suggests that this would be about the wedding. Not that it's a huge spoiler, but it is something shocking that happens after the wedding.

I would have said, "and what they did to Robb's body... ick." You can convey what you're feeling or thinking without mentioning specifics.

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It's been a few weeks since I read it. But the thing that upset me most was how over-the-top it was in conjunction with the Arya plot.

That said... yes, I would like to see Walder and pretty nearly all Freys (and their northern collaborators) die very horrible deaths. The exception would have been the lackwit Frey that Catelyn murdered after Robb was killed. Sorry, but killing a lackwit is like slitting the throat of an infant. Not cool... not even in this context.

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I've literately only just read both this and the very next chapter. I'm in deep shock and really wasn't expecting it! Felt the need to find somewhere online to share my dismay.

Speechless

But this is why these are defo the best books I've ever read. I'm now scared to learn what's going to happen next!

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