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Angalin

A Thread for Small Questions XIX

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Hit me with your best shot. (Just don't expect me to answer.)

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Continuing from previous: I rechecked and no one except Mirri (and shadows) were in the tent with Dany when she gave birth and no one else saw the baby. DANY thought Jorah had killed the baby but she has been wrong in her mindreading before. So we only have Mirri's word that it was some sort of monster. I think everyone was on board with the idea that Mirri magicked it into a monster, although that seems unnecessary if only a death were needed to pay for life.

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Replying to the last post on the last thread, I am not so sure that it's always said the Sorrowful Men succeed. They are good, but they are by no means the Faceless Men. Judging by the comments of the characters throughout the books, people only consider 100% certainty of death, when dealing with the Faceless Men, no such reputation is given to the Sorrowful Men of Qarth.

Also, judging by the conversation Dany has with Xaro Xhoan Daxos in ADwD, Pyat Pree and his fellow Warlocks were only out to kill Dany for revenge, Xaro never mentions them trying to kill Dany, so they can get her dragons. I doubt they even thought of it as an option, because they have no way of controlling the dragons.

@rmholt

Dany thinks that Ser Jorah killed her son because he brought Dany into the tent, after Mirri said no living person could enter. So Dany thinks that Ser jorahs actions killed her son, but that does not mean Jorah physically killed her son himself, like after he was born all healthy or something. Had Ser Jorah done nothing though, Dany and her baby might have died.

So I guess if you wanted to, you could say Ser Jorah killed Dany's son, that's not how I personally see it, but Jorah in no way murdered her son on purpose to get a pardon.

I am not so sure why you think Mirri "magicked" something, you said it yourself, what would be the point? Especially if nobody else saw the baby, including Dany.

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@ Jolene Brown (the old thread is closed)

Which genetic trait? Spoiler it if you must.

Let's say, a lot of libido! As seen in Gatehouse Ami, who was caught having fun with no less than three stablehands. Old Walder is also said to live to fondle his young wives, and according to rumours, Black Walder refuses to marry but screws around with half the female population of the Twins, incl. his own cousins. And the bride in TMK had to marry in a hurry, because her little brother, the heir (= Late Walder) saw her doing something with a servant.

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Question:

Is there a thread about the possibility of Mel being a glamoured-up Maggy the Frog/Maegi the Unpronouncable? I've seen this idea mentioned as a crackpot theory somewhere, but I couldn't find a "serious discussion".

(Or am I overlooking something really obvious that would make this theory clearly impossible? I keep thinking Maggy should have been killed by Cersei, but I haven't found proof in the text (so far).

Also Mel apparently is a woman with an interesting past.)

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Replying to the last post on the last thread, I am not so sure that it's always said the Sorrowful Men succeed. They are good, but they are by no means the Faceless Men. Judging by the comments of the characters throughout the books, people only consider 100% certainty of death, when dealing with the Faceless Men, no such reputation is given to the Sorrowful Men of Qarth.

Also, judging by the conversation Dany has with Xaro Xhoan Daxos in ADwD, Pyat Pree and his fellow Warlocks were only out to kill Dany for revenge, Xaro never mentions them trying to kill Dany, so they can get her dragons. I doubt they even thought of it as an option, because they have no way of controlling the dragons.

@rmholt

Dany thinks that Ser Jorah killed her son because he brought Dany into the tent, after Mirri said no living person could enter. So Dany thinks that Ser jorahs actions killed her son, but that does not mean Jorah physically killed her son himself, like after he was born all healthy or something. Had Ser Jorah done nothing though, Dany and her baby might have died.

So I guess if you wanted to, you could say Ser Jorah killed Dany's son, that's not how I personally see it, but Jorah in no way murdered her son on purpose to get a pardon.

I am not so sure why you think Mirri "magicked" something, you said it yourself, what would be the point? Especially if nobody else saw the baby, including Dany.

Exactly, what would be the point of turning the baby into a dead monster? None. However we have only MMD's word that that is what happened. So i think she lied. i was saying that it made no sense that she magicked the baby into a monster. I never thought she (or anyone else) did. The purpose of saying he was a monster was to try to give more justification to killing it.

After rereading the incident, Ser Jorah didnt see the baby either, and Dany only intuited that he had killed the baby. Her intuition is sometimes off target.

It would make sense for continuity for Ser Jorah to kill the baby since he is still in touch with the royal family in Westeros and informing on Dany. It seems possible that he was the guy they told to kill Dany and the baby. It is possible the order to call off the killing hadnt reached him yet. He hadnt fallen in love with her yet. OTOH there is no need to think HE killed the baby, tho Dany thought he did. All I'm saying, the result was what the king wanted before he changed his mind, Ser Jorah wasnt Dany;s yet, and he still has not been pardoned.

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Can Sandor Clegane read?

(I assume that his brother can't, or wouldn't be interested in learning, but I think Sandor's a lot smarter than his brother, and might see the use of it.)

So I guess what I'm asking is, are there any instances when he seems to be reading something, like a sign for an inn or something similar?

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Question:

Is there a thread about the possibility of Mel being a glamoured-up Maggy the Frog/Maegi the Unpronouncable? I've seen this idea mentioned as a crackpot theory somewhere, but I couldn't find a "serious discussion".

(Or am I overlooking something really obvious that would make this theory clearly impossible? I keep thinking Maggy should have been killed by Cersei, but I haven't found proof in the text (so far).

Also Mel apparently is a woman with an interesting past.)

I don't think so. In Mel's POV we get the flash back to "melony, lot 7" which suggests that Melony was sold into slavery as a child, probably to the red priests and then changed her named to something more impressive sounding. She's probably much older than she looks but that line hints at her having her own past (and a good thing too with all these fake identities going around.).

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Exactly, what would be the point of turning the baby into a dead monster? None. However we have only MMD's word that that is what happened. So i think she lied. i was saying that it made no sense that she magicked the baby into a monster. I never thought she (or anyone else) did. The purpose of saying he was a monster was to try to give more justification to killing it.

After rereading the incident, Ser Jorah didnt see the baby either, and Dany only intuited that he had killed the baby. Her intuition is sometimes off target.

It would make sense for continuity for Ser Jorah to kill the baby since he is still in touch with the royal family in Westeros and informing on Dany. It seems possible that he was the guy they told to kill Dany and the baby. It is possible the order to call off the killing hadnt reached him yet. He hadnt fallen in love with her yet. OTOH there is no need to think HE killed the baby, tho Dany thought he did. All I'm saying, the result was what the king wanted before he changed his mind, Ser Jorah wasnt Dany;s yet, and he still has not been pardoned.

I am sure Mirri would have said something had Jorah murdered Rhaego, despite that being something Ser Jorah would never do. I also believe you are wrong about Jorah not loving Dany yet, to me atleast, it's very obvious he starts to love her a good amount of time even before Viserys got "Crowned".

And again, Dany only thinks that, in a way Ser Jorah killed her son, because he carried Dany into the tent after Mirri told them not to enter it after she started her blood magic. Obviously Dany doesn't completely hold to this idea, otherwise she wouldn't have been good with Jorah afterwords, and I believe Dany even says that Jorah did what he did for love, and she remarks that going into the tent had "marked" Jorah to(he looked all haggard, and his wound would not heal long after it should have started to, Dany notices this when she wakes up). Dany never thought though that Ser Jorah physically killed her son, or that he meant to.

In ASoS, when Dany is deciding to forgive Jorah and Barristan or not, Ser Barristan tells Dany the truth about Ser Jorah, and he said that "there was even talk that he might do the deed himself". Meaning the small Council thought he might, but they never asked him to, or he never agreed to, otherwise Barristan would have said "I was there when word got back that you would do the deed yourself", or something like that.

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Exactly, what would be the point of turning the baby into a dead monster? None. However we have only MMD's word that that is what happened. So i think she lied. i was saying that it made no sense that she magicked the baby into a monster. I never thought she (or anyone else) did. The purpose of saying he was a monster was to try to give more justification to killing it.

After rereading the incident, Ser Jorah didnt see the baby either, and Dany only intuited that he had killed the baby. Her intuition is sometimes off target.

It would make sense for continuity for Ser Jorah to kill the baby since he is still in touch with the royal family in Westeros and informing on Dany. It seems possible that he was the guy they told to kill Dany and the baby. It is possible the order to call off the killing hadnt reached him yet. He hadnt fallen in love with her yet. OTOH there is no need to think HE killed the baby, tho Dany thought he did. All I'm saying, the result was what the king wanted before he changed his mind, Ser Jorah wasnt Dany;s yet, and he still has not been pardoned.

What is the point, if Jorah actually murders her son to leave Dany still alive? While Jorah was willing to spy for the Iron Throne, I seriously doubt he would be willing to kill a teen girl and her baby...at the start he wanted to come back home. Ned drove him off for selling poachers he caught on his land into slavery. What do you think it would be like if he was able to come home after he killed Dany and her baby?

Oh hey, welcome back Jorah,

ya, thanks, so I heard about the Targ child and baby you murdered....

Ya, good times, so, whats for dinner?

Do you think his family would accept him back? He would still be an outcast, maybe even more so with his family.

Jorah is still concerned about right and wrong...plus there were many ways I am sure, for him to killed or let Dany die and the baby die I am sure...(why else stop her from being poisoned?)

What's more, Jorah is in love with Dany, and the deal was to kill both Dany and the child anyways, what sense does it make for Jorah to kill a healthy baby after it was born but leave Dany alive?

All he has tried to do is keep her safe...and while Dany blames Jorah for her sons death in all likilihood, he ended up saving Dany, which is why Dany ends up forgiving him.

I just don't understand what your point is? I don't get it....why would he kill her baby and not her? He tried many times to keep her safe and seems to be constantly offering advice that would be most likely to keep her safe.

I do not necessarily think that Dany will forever be unable to have kids, but she certainly hasn't popped out a baby Dario yet.

I don't understand why this fixation on Jorah being a baby killer? (although I'd buy him killing the baby if it came out the way it was described in the books, but you are saying he killed a 100% healthy normal baby)

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The Jorah/Dany discussion has left the realm of small questions. You should make or find a thread to discuss it in detail.

Is there a thread about the possibility of Mel being a glamoured-up Maggy the Frog/Maegi the Unpronouncable? I've seen this idea mentioned as a crackpot theory somewhere, but I couldn't find a "serious discussion".

http://lmgtfy.com/?q...af.westeros.org

Generally the fastest way to find out if a thread exists is to google the subject with the boolean "site:asoiaf.westeros.org". In this case the second result might be helpful.

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Replying to the last post on the last thread, I am not so sure that it's always said the Sorrowful Men succeed. They are good, but they are by no means the Faceless Men. Judging by the comments of the characters throughout the books, people only consider 100% certainty of death, when dealing with the Faceless Men, no such reputation is given to the Sorrowful Men of Qarth.

Also, judging by the conversation Dany has with Xaro Xhoan Daxos in ADwD, Pyat Pree and his fellow Warlocks were only out to kill Dany for revenge, Xaro never mentions them trying to kill Dany, so they can get her dragons. I doubt they even thought of it as an option, because they have no way of controlling the dragons.

"Warlocks never forgot a wrong, it was said, and the Sorrowful Men never failed to kill. Most of the Dothraki would be against her as well."

Dany is just assuming the warlocks sent the Sorrowful, there's no other indication that I can think of in the books. This passage is saying she expects the Sorrowful Men to keep coming after her. And no they're not the Faceless Men but they do have a reputation for never failing and you don't usually get a reputation for never failing by actually failing.

Personally I think it's Xaro that send the Sorrowful man though admittedly this is nothing but a hunch based on the little more than he's the first to mention them. He's a slimy bastard that would kiss your cheek as his hired man is stabbing you in the back. He tells Dany he begs for her life, refer back to the previous sentence and she just assumes it's the warlocks.

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Anybody have an actual reference to how the Dreadfort sits on top of a volcanic vent got started?

Not the wiki. The wiki is the problem not the solution.

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Volcanic vent? I thought it was near a river...

Don't you mean Dragonstone?

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"The Dreadfort is a strong fortress, with high walls and triangular merlons that look like sharp stone teeth. It's located next to a volcanic vent, which heats the castle in a similar manner to the hot springs under Winterfell."

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreadfort

Plenty of information about Dragonstone in the books. So no, I actually meant what I was asking about.

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Anybody have an actual reference to how the Dreadfort sits on top of a volcanic vent got started?

Not the wiki. The wiki is the problem not the solution.

I've heard this about Winterfell because the hot springs run through all of the walls keeping it warm in the winter, never heard anything about the Dreadfort though.

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q...af.westeros.org

Generally the fastest way to find out if a thread exists is to google the subject with the boolean "site:asoiaf.westeros.org". In this case the second result might be helpful.

The first link is magick! I'm impressed...

and thx for the thread... which convinced me that Mel and Maggy are not one and the same...

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Anybody have an actual reference to how the Dreadfort sits on top of a volcanic vent got started?

Not the wiki. The wiki is the problem not the solution.

No idea, other than some poor dolt got the Dreadfort confused with Dragonstone.

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Anybody have an actual reference to how the Dreadfort sits on top of a volcanic vent got started?

Not the wiki. The wiki is the problem not the solution.

This is the first time I've read the Dreadfort being described that way, or in so much detail even.

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The Jorah/Dany discussion has left the realm of small questions. You should make or find a thread to discuss it in detail.

OK - Jorah/Dany/Rhaego

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