Is Cersei the weak link of house Lannister?

[AegonTargaryen]

Reading over the first few books of the series, I'm starting to feel that Cersei was a huge liability to house Lannister. First, instead of bearing Robert's true children, she seduces her brother Jaime and has his children, allowing the destructive war of succession to take place after Robert's death.

She convinces Jaime to join the Kingsguard, even though both Tywin and Jaime wanted Jaime to eventually become lord of Casterly Rock. Not only does she steal Tywin's heir, but this becomes a huge source of conflict between Jaime and Tywin.

SPOILERS FROM aSoS below!

She falsely accuses Tyrion of Joffrey's death, which indirectly leads to a rift between Jaime and Tyrion, and causes Tyrion to kill Tywin, unravelling house Lannister.

So, assuming Cersei just shuts the hell up, has Robert's children and does as Tywin instructs her, Tywin would be alive and well, Jaime would be being groomed to become lord of Casterly Rock, Tyrion would be on good terms with Jaime wherever he is, and likely wouldn't be kinslayer. Suffice to say, house Lannister would be in pretty good shape.

[Pupsi]

SPOILERS BELOW:

Her father viewed her as nothing more than a tool, so it is small wonder she tried to make the best of it. From her perspective it was not such a bad move to coerce Jamie into joining the kingsguard as it brought her (or Joffrey while he was still alive) one step closer to being heir to Casterly Rock. Same goes for accusing Tyrion of murdering Joffrey, considering that she could reasonably assume that Tywin would not go out of his way the aquit Tyrion.

I just finished aSoS five minutes ago, so I don't know how the story will continue, but I assume, that Tyrion actually did her a favor when he killed Tywin.

EDIT: Never mind. I forgot about Kevan.

As far as the incest goes I think the problem was Tywin. As clever as he was with everything else I found it amazing how blind he was with regards to his grandson. The parallels between Joffrey and Aerys were pretty much obvious, and since Tywin quit as Hand because he was more or less at odds with Aerys madness, the only reasonable explination is, that Tywin chose to be blind to the Joffrey's character and probably even to the question of incest because Joffrey was the only heir he had left. Except for Tyrion of course, but we all know Tywins attitute towards him.

So as far as the question goes: Sure, Cersei is the weak link of House Lannister. But then again I doubt she even sees herself as Lannister in the first place.

[ckal]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Read AFFC.

[Elder Sister]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Read AFFC.

Great answer! :) But of course, being a blabbermouth, I have to expound...

It almost seems like the three Lannister children are made from the same pattern. Tyrion is much less cruel and selfish, and often thinks of others, but Jaime and Cersei are extremely cruel, selfish, and narcissistic. Ckal is right; by the end of AFFC you really see how wicked and rotten Cersei has always been.

All that being said, she's one of my favorite characters to read just because she's so danged interesting. And she's always coming up with some hair-brained plot that never works out properly, and then she has the same hissy fit afterwards. That always cracks me up.

ETA: I've often wondered why Jaime begins a path towards redemption, but Cersei didn't.

They both had tragic things happen to them - loss of hand, loss of a child, but they definitely respond differently to those things.

[ckal]

Haha, and not to mention how other characters flat out come out and say how much of an idiot she is. She thinks she is Tywin's son, or Tywin II, and she doesn't even know what a fool she really is, which is the best part.

[Gerold_Hightower]

You are correct. In later books you will notice that she is paranoid.

[Redtide6]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Read AFFC.

Got to agree. Her true nature becomes clear in aFfC as she is a POV character.

[Brindled]

Reading over the first few books of the series, I'm starting to feel that Cersei was a huge liability to house Lannister. First, instead of bearing Robert's true children, she seduces her brother Jaime and has his children, allowing the destructive war of succession to take place after Robert's death.

She convinces Jaime to join the Kingsguard, even though both Tywin and Jaime wanted Jaime to eventually become lord of Casterly Rock. Not only does she steal Tywin's heir, but this becomes a huge source of conflict between Jaime and Tywin.

SPOILERS FROM aSoS below!

She falsely accuses Tyrion of Joffrey's death, which indirectly leads to a rift between Jaime and Tyrion, and causes Tyrion to kill Tywin, unravelling house Lannister.

So, assuming Cersei just shuts the hell up, has Robert's children and does as Tywin instructs her, Tywin would be alive and well, Jaime would be being groomed to become lord of Casterly Rock, Tyrion would be on good terms with Jaime wherever he is, and likely wouldn't be kinslayer. Suffice to say, house Lannister would be in pretty good shape.

what a different tale it would be if...

imagine the kingdom only dealing with LF's desires. it would be a much different playing field.

[Marc Hill]

After I finished a AFFC, I have no respect for Cersei, at all. A bit of pity, though very minimal.

[NoxBlackguard]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Read AFFC.

I believe that is the perfect answer.

[Krystal]

After I finished a AFFC, I have no respect for Cersei, at all. A bit of pity, though very minimal.

Going to read AFFC now, I don't know what to expect of her POV's!

[MR92]

yeah i think all three of children of "Tywn" are way too hard to read and judge ENTIRELY...of course cercei is the most hated

[fuem]

Kinda anyone who has sex with their brother and has his children is kinda well wow.

[Akalya]

She is the weakest link..yes... The main reason is that she thinks that she's extremely cunning when she is afool!

she has no vision n acts almost spontaneously and makes obvious moves making her nothing more than a pawn in the game of thrones!

[Annara Snow]

 

Reading over the first few books of the series, I'm starting to feel that Cersei was a huge liability to house Lannister. First, instead of bearing Robert's true children, she seduces her brother Jaime and has his children, allowing the destructive war of succession to take place after Robert's death.

She convinces Jaime to join the Kingsguard, even though both Tywin and Jaime wanted Jaime to eventually become lord of Casterly Rock. Not only does she steal Tywin's heir, but this becomes a huge source of conflict between Jaime and Tywin.

Is she the weakest link? Generally, yes, unless you count Joffrey (I assume you're not counting the younger generation).

But listing the above as an example of why she would be... um, you do realize that Jaime kinda participated in those same actions, as much as she did? He's the same age as she is and has a mind of his own, it's bizarre to blame Cersei but treat Jaime as if he was not responsible for having sex with Cersei, knocking her up, and even for joining the KG... heck, you even blame Cersei for Jaime killing Aerys, I'd say that's really too much! :lol:

Anyway, Cersei may be the weakest link, in the sense of being the least capable, as far as the older/middle generation goes. But there's more than one link there. The biggest weakness of the house of Lannister are their dysfunctional relationships with each other. And most of the blame for that goes to Tywin for being a horrible father.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Yes Cersei is the weakest link of House Lannister.

[ThePrinceWhoisFlummoxed]

  Is she the weakest link? Generally, yes, unless you count Joffrey (I assume you're not counting the younger generation).

But listing the above as an example of why she would be... um, you do realize that Jaime kinda participated in those same actions, as much as she did? He's the same age as she is and has a mind of his own, it's bizarre to blame Cersei but treat Jaime as if he was not responsible for having sex with Cersei, knocking her up, and even for joining the KG... heck, you even blame Cersei for Jaime killing Aerys, I'd say that's really too much! :lol:

All true! There is certainly a sexist double standard here. Robert made plenty of babies with women other than his wife. That said, (1) Cersei is the one who was married to the king and was to give him a true born heir, (2) rightly or wrongly, Cersei is always portrayed as the instigator of the incest, (3) Jaime has at least set out on a path of redemption by the end of ASoS while Cersei has not, and (4) Cersie is both annoying and kind of stupid (at least relative to how smart she thinks she is).

Cersei will be the downfall of the House of Lannister, although Tyrion may be its redemption.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Read ADwD.
I am baffled sometimes when people say she is a product of husband abuse.

[Steve Stark]

I always hated Cersei, although I enjoy reading about her character quite a bit.

But once you've read AFFC you can jump on the Steve bandwagon and hate her with me. If not, well...you might be messed up in the head too. :cool4:

[JLE]

As far as the incest goes I think the problem was Tywin. As clever as he was with everything else I found it amazing how blind he was with regards to his grandson. The parallels between Joffrey and Aerys were pretty much obvious, and since Tywin quit as Hand because he was more or less at odds with Aerys madness, the only reasonable explination is, that Tywin chose to be blind to the Joffrey's character

I don't think this is the case. Madness or no madness, Tywin is just as capable of dealing out death and destruction arbitrarily, not even only to those who have opposed him, but their children, their families, their neighbours, their villages, even their livestock, whatever. Just ask the Riverlands - he knows exactly what Gregor is going to do to them. Just ask Elia Martell and her children. Just ask Houses Reyne and Tarbeck - he might have left some members of either house alive to swear allegiance to him: instead he destroyed every last one, in a complete parallel with the way Aerys demanded the heads of Robert and Ned who hadn't even taken any involvement in the disagreement between Rhaegar and House Stark.

No, I think Tywin's decision to turn against Aerys was *personal*. But related to hints that are dropped in later books - one comment about the behaviour of King Aerys at Tywin and Joanna Lannister's wedding: and one comment by Genna Lannister-Frey which *she* thinks - and leads us to believe - is about the relative character personalities of Jaime and Tyrion, but which could be taken another way entirely (and I think will indeed come back to bite us later.)