Winterfell is Burning Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 In real life this would be true, but this is a fantasy world in which prophecies do hold weight. And if Jon does turn out to be the PWWP, or one of the heads of the dragon, as many on this board believe, then it will turn out that Rhaegar was right.No, Jon being it proves that Rhaegar was wrong.That is, because the PTWP was Aegon, and his 3rd child would be a girl, named Visenya, to be the 3rd head of the dragon. The 3rd child being male almost certainly never crossed his mind.And in anyway, if he is the PTWP, the best thing Rhaegar ever did for Jon was...to die. If Rhaegar doesn't die, Jon isn't raised by Ned, doesn't learn humility by being treated as a bastard s and by Ned raising him, and does not go to the Wall which is where he needs to be.Cersei does everything she can to avoid fulfilling prophecy, at times even going so far as to reassure herself that what Maggy told her was a bunch of lies. So I'm sorry, but I don't see how Cersei's situation is comparable to Rhaegar's.What's the difference? They both define their lives by prophecy to the point war and deaths are the results. Whether they are trying to fulfill the prophecy or avoid it is completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 No, Jon being it proves that Rhaegar was wrong.But it shows that he was right about Jon playing on important role in the prophecy. The fact that he may have gotten the child's sex wrong, or that he thought he would be one of the heads but was actually the PWWP, is irrelevant. Either way, he was right about his and Lyanna's child being important.What's the difference? They both define their lives by prophecy to the point war and deaths are the results. Whether they are trying to fulfill the prophecy or avoid it is completely irrelevant.It's not irrelevant. This is a world where prophecy is most definitely real, so trying to fulfill a prophecy is less crazy when compared to trying to avert it. Furthermore, Cersei's actions are all about saving herself from a fate she doesn't want, while Rhaegar's actions are about saving the world. The only similarity between their two situations is that they are both grappling with prophecy. But the way they deal with prophecy, and their reasons for doing so, are completely different, and that completely distinguishes their situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 But it shows that he was right about Jon playing on important role in the prophecy. The fact that he may have gotten the child's sex wrong, or that he thought he would be one of the heads but was actually the PWWP, is irrelevant. Either way, he was right about his and Lyanna's child being important.So what it turned out to be an important child? He was about everything else, and in fact it was precisely his actions that helped to throw the realm into a state that is so weak that the Others might be unstoppable. In some ways, it's a self-furfilling prophecy.It's not irrelevant. This is a world where prophecy is most definitely real, so trying to fulfill a prophecy is less crazy when compared to trying to avert it. Furthermore, Cersei's actions are all about saving herself from a fate she doesn't want, while Rhaegar's actions are about saving the world. The only similarity between their two situations is that they are both grappling with prophecy. But the way they deal with prophecy, and their reasons for doing so, are completely different, and that completely distinguishes their situation.No, prophecies are not necessarily real- we only have evidence that some are definitively not (see Mel being sure that Stannis would win in Backwater) and some might be real. And there's like, 20,000 prophecies out there, which is the real one? Which is right and which is wrong? And which interpretation is correct and which is not?In fact, isn't it the point of the PTWP exactly to avoid another certain fate: that the Others will return and destroy all mankind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So what it turned out to be an important child? He was about everything else, and in fact it was precisely his actions that helped to throw the realm into a state that is so weak that the Others might be unstoppable. In some ways, it's a self-furfilling prophecy.Wait, so now we're blaming Rhaegar for the War of the Five Kings? Is everything Rhaegar's fault now?No, prophecies are not necessarily real- we only have evidence that some are definitively not (see Mel being sure that Stannis would win in Backwater) and some might be real.No, we know that some are definitely real. See, for example, the woods witch's prophecies that Arya overhears.In fact, isn't it the point of the PTWP exactly to avoid another certain fate: that the Others will return and destroy all mankind?There is no prophecy that says the Others will destroy all mankind, as far as we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Not everything is Rhaegar's fault, of course, but had he spent less time worrying about prophecies and more about running the realm, it's unlikely that there would be Robert's Rebellion, and even less likely there would be a War of the Five Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erebrana Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I would like to add that prophecies tend to be unavoidable.So trying to prevent one from happening or trying to make one come to pass are equaly futile exersises. And they often end in desaster.Other Targaryen tried.But all this failures may still be necesary for the prophecy to fulfill itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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