Are Lannister fans.... evil?

[Quentyn Baratheon]

The Ned knows. It is known.

[sumant30]

You can't say lannisters are evil, perhaps more cunning than all the houses and with all the power that tywin lannister has who can oppose them!!.

[The guy from the Vale]

How far into aGoT are we? I do not want to spoil the fun for the book readers...

Let's just say that the Cersei "I know who your baby daddy is" could have been handled differently... mostly because

it resulted directly in Robert's death.

Since there were supposedly earlier plans to get rid of Robert (the melee comes to mind) and Robert went hunting with Lancel before Ned talked to Cersei, I actually think Robert would have died on that hunting trip anyway.

[Elder Sister]

Since there were supposedly earlier plans to get rid of Robert (the melee comes to mind) and Robert went hunting with Lancel before Ned talked to Cersei, I actually think Robert would have died on that hunting trip anyway.

Agreed - those cards had already been in play way before Ned came along. I think it's unair to blame him for others' actions, really.

[Elder Sister]

Since there were supposedly earlier plans to get rid of Robert (the melee comes to mind) and Robert went hunting with Lancel before Ned talked to Cersei, I actually think Robert would have died on that hunting trip anyway.

Agreed. I think it's unfair to blame Ned for something that was in play before he ever came to KL.

[Gurkhal]

We're surely not evil in any way, we just have different preferences in our favorite fictional characters.

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

Okay, the Lannisters aren't monsters and rooting for them is okay. It's fiction after all! But I strongly disagree Starks and Lannisters are morally equivalent and both sides only want to protect the ones they love. Lannisters worship power and are greed as hell and are willing to lie, cheat, backstab and maim thousands of peasants in order to achieve their goals. The Stark are only guilty of the last one and only to avenge Ned's murder (the war killed innocents so I grant both sides are to blame). There's no question the Starks are better persons when you have Cersei, Joffrey, Tywin and even Jaime among the Lannisters.

[WakeTheDragon]

This is an opinion I see a good bit on the board: Ned Stark should not have warned Cersei of what he was going to do, and was an idiot because he chose to do this. In reality, Ned was attempting to avoid the murder of more innocent children. It's obvious that he feels deep regret over his inability to help Elia Martell and her children.

Would it have been better for Ned to throw aside his honor and protect his own neck? Should he have kept quiet and not warned Cersei, even if it meant that Joffrey (who cares), Myracella, and Tommen were murdered? I don't think so. He did the right thing. It was the honorable thing to do, and yes, he died for it.

One of my favorite movies, Open Range, has a line where Kevin Costner's character is responding to a fearful man who won't stand up to a greedy rancher. He says, "You may not know this, but there's worse things than dying."

I always think of that line when this comes up.

His biggest mistake was not playing the game. He trusted little finger for one, turned down Renly's offer. He ended up dead so there's no way you can say he played his cards right. He should have taken up Renly's offer. That was the killing stroke.

[Cora Stark]

I guess it depends on who you like and why. The thought of liking a character is based on the fans personal view of the character. For an example I like Littlefingers character because of his love for and determination to be with Catelyn, but to others he may be viewed as a terrible manipulative man. So I think it's all about what you think of the person. I'm a fan of 2 Lannister's, Tyrion and Jamie. I even bought a "What would Tyrion do?" t-shirt at http://www.cafepress.com/mf/67605307/wwtdgoldpsd_tshirt. Oh and for Cersei I HATE her and she can go to all of the seven hell's for all I care. There has been so many times where I wished she was poisoned by one of her servants and DIED....god!

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

Evil is entertaining...Just look at the Dark Knight.

Everyone loves the movie because of the Joker...are they evil? Evil is fun to watch on tv/movies or read in books, they keep the story going.

The Lannisters are awesome.

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

I guess it depends on who you like and why. The thought of liking a character is based on the fans personal view of the character. For an example I like Littlefingers character because of his love for and determination to be with Catelyn, but to others he may be viewed as a terrible manipulative man. So I think it's all about what you think of the person. I'm a fan of 2 Lannister's, Tyrion and Jamie. I even bought a "What would Tyrion do?" t-shirt at http://www.cafepress...dgoldpsd_tshirt. Oh and for Cersei I HATE her and she can go to all of the seven hell's for all I care. There has been so many times where I wished she was poisoned by one of her servants and DIED....god!

I agree, it's all based on personal preference.

Although Tywin should be added to the list of awesome Lannisters. :smug:

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

Totally. Ned and Cersei's conversation about the lineage of Robert's children revealed they weren't as different as you'd imagine.

Except Ned wanted to spare her and her children as well. Her brother tried to kill Ned's son. Cersei risked her children's lives by crowning Joffrey, which could have gone wrong for her. She "loves" her children but she lusts for power even more.

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

How so? You can't get more different than truth/lies or honor/deceit...

Agreed. I will grant that maybe it is white morality (Ned) vs grey (almost black) morality. We can explain and perhaps understand Cersei's reasons but never condone them. And Ned is truth, honor and mercy as well.

[KhaleesiDany]

I don't know because I don't like any of the Lannisters. the closest is Tyrion who I have basically neutral feelings for; he is smart, funny and the underdog. I think he has a good heart but he's still an evil Lannister, and it's hard for me to root for him to succeed in any real way because I don't want their family to gain any more power politically.

As for Lannister fans, I like to think they enjoy what the Lannisters bring to the story. They are ambitious and powerful villains, they seem to be pulling all the strings that Littlefinger or Varys don't have in hand. Sometimes you think the villains are more interesting that the good guys and you kind of root for them, because they have powerful traits they know how to use. I think that all the characters in this book are so complex though, the Lannisters don't really fill any need for me when everyone else has so much depth. Also this is a vague spoiler for later in the series but

the development of Jaime's character is very interesting to many people. I, however, consider him irredeemable for throwing Bran out a window.

If anyone genuinely likes the Lannisters in that they want them to win and take over the seven kingdoms by the end of the book, they're nuts.

just read AFFC to see what that's like

[LifeRuiner]

Considering that there are plenty of Greyjoy fans (and unlike with the Lannisters, your first impressions of that house would not improve on further reading), I think that Lannister fans are a-okay :)

[Dire Turtle]

It depends on why the person is a fan. If you ask a Lannister fan why they like the Lannisters so much and they say:

-They are very well written and I a love to read about the complex psychology of these characters.

Then they are not evil. If they say something like this:

- You know I can totally identify with these people because I love having sex with my married sister! I would totally send children to their death if they were to ever catch me too! Collateral damage? Pffft.

Then maybe.

[Azureguy]

As other posters have mentioned, one of the really great things about the series is the fact that it's many shades of grey, but never black and white. What I mean by that is that the vast majority of characters will exhibit both good and "evil" traits to varying degrees.

Would you say that there are, perhaps, FIFTY shades of grey?

[AegonTargaryen]

Would you say that there are, perhaps, FIFTY shades of grey?

lmao

[Independent George]

Often it's hard to see the good in our enemy because we're too biased. If you really look deeply into the motivation of both House Stark and House Lannister, you'll realize they both do the things they do to protect those they love.

Totally. Ned and Cersei's conversation about the lineage of Robert's children revealed they weren't as different as you'd imagine.

I took the exact opposite lesson from that. Ned was willing to risk everything to save his enemies' children - and not for the first time, either. Cersei is willing to destroy everyone to save hers. There's is a world of difference between the two.

To get back to the OP, though, you have to remember that everything is told through extremely unreliable POVs; in some cases, understanding a character's motivations makes them more sympathetic. In others, it makes them less so.

[NoNameRivers]

People do love joker, you know. Although he's the undisputible bad guy. We have tyrion as a POV, and hes relatable.