Possible time jump in TWOW/ADOS?

[The Snowman]

Me too.

But what was interesting for me in the first 3 books was that you would only hear about resolution of some important event or battle. Without GRRM describing it.

And in last 2 books, that were worse than previous, he would go on describing even most insignificant details (without much resolution :( ).

Yeah that would work for Dany not being a POV for a while and that could definitely speed up Westeros timeline i suppose

I'm not saying flashbacks are the best for getting information but to be honest I really think Arya needs another 2-3 years of development and stuff in the South with Aegon and the Iron Throne, I don't see that being resolved quickly. Aegon doesn't have the dragons and its winter so moving armies isn't going to be the easiest thing to do. My point is basically that some of these characters, to me, need more time and unless George really amps up the pace I don't see that happening easily. so my thoughts on a time jump. In the middle of winter I don't think many people are going to be moving around in the North so anyway im repeating myself

[Melpomene]

I wouldn't think so, and I would hope not.

Even if the cliffhangers are finished off, you would still have to start over with a whole new plot(s), with more intros, flashbacks, characters having to talk about the past alot, and whatnot. We sort of already had that phase in AFFC, and I'm not sure if readers would be keen to have to 'relearn' everything in the chapters again. Especially taken into account on how extensive the series is.

And, maybe it would be just me, but I feel like (as a reader) it would interupt the connection/relationship we have with our characters - we wouldn't be able to witness their growth.We would very likely miss fundamental aspects of their journeys. And, it would be kind of strange in a way; For example with Arya, after 5 detailed books of her as an 10-11 year old, only to have her suddenly be 16 on the 6th book, seems really weird to me.

I can see a little timeskip at the very end of the series though, if one has to happen.

[Dolorous Ali]

I meant that after all of that cliffhanger stuff was done. I thought I said 3/4 through the books but maybe i didn't.

If the book is a 1000 pages then I would like a time jump to happen around the 700-800 page mark. The common theory in Westeros is that a long summer is followed by and even longer winter. Nevertheless the season's of Summer and Winter in Westeros seem to mirror each other I thought or that's the feeling that I got while reading,perhaps I'm wrong. The summer the just passed was over a decade wasn't it? So we can assume the Winter is going to be at least 5 years at a bare minimum. So I think a time jump of a few years couldn't hurt if say Dany is already in Westeros and can't exactly unite everyone in the middle of possible snow storms even with dragons

Yeah you said so. I was just too lazy to read your post and just responded to the title. You have no idea how many times I have seen people discussing time jump on this board and I've been here for only a month.

Anyways, the idea of a time jump doesn't seem interesting. But if there is to be one I think it won't be in the middle of a book, it'd be between TWoW and ADoS. Though that would still be a bad idea. Much and more could happen during these years and reading too many flashbacks will be boring. And you're saying your idea like Dany is the only storyline in the series. There are more important storylines, like Jon's if he's gonna be AA. Plus Dany already has more than enough forces, no need to unite everyone, though they'll be united. No one will want to fight against 10k unsullied, a lot of Dothraki and iron borns accompanied by 3 dragons.

And this winter is not like other normal winters. It will not end on its own. AA has to end it, so your reasoning that this winter is gonna last long is not correct. It can end 1000 years from now or just one year from now, depending on AA.

All this said, we might be surprised and see a time jump, though not in the middle of a book; it might be between TWoW and ADoS?

BTW, didn't GRRM say that he's abandoned his idea of time jump?

[little & less]

It's too bad there wasn't a time jump after ASOS.

Wasn't the problem that GRRM wanted to do a five year jump and then couldn't explain what Tyrion was doing for all that time?

[Northern-She-Wolf]

The only reason GRRM though of doing a time jump in aDwD he said was to make some of the younger characters grow up abit so I think it may happen. About the time in the series some people seem confused everyone says two-three years, which makes somewhat sense because in aSoS when Tywin is telling Tyrion about the Red Wedding and marring 'Arya Stark' to the Bolton Tyrion says Arya has been missing more than half a year, so a assume 7-10 months then, and I don't see Ned being in KL no longer then 6 months in my mind plus it took Robert a month to get to Winterfell so a month back to KL as well is 2 and then things that happen in the rest of aSoS from that point and the other two books which take place during the sametime give or take so I think 2-3 years make perfect sense if you think about it.

[ChozenOne]

I think the whole timeline thing was expained pretty well somewhere else on this board with relation to the pregnacies of Daenerys and Lollys Stokeworth. If in AGOT they traveled for an entire month to get back to King's Landing after weeks of preperation and time spent in Winterfell, and Dany hadn't even met Drogo yet, then gets pregnant and goes full term, the book was over the course of at least 10-11 months. Sokeworth gets raped a little over half way through ACOK, which was at least a couple of months, and doesn't have that kid until somewhere near the end of ASOS (i think, that book is lent out right now). So at this point the first 3 books are at least 2 years' time. After that, all the overlapping of the books instead of a chronological storyline makes it a little confusing,especially with all the traveling, and sitting around overdescribing every detail and morsel of food. I have to assume almost an entire year had to have passed between AFFC and ADWD, so that should put it at right aroud three years, give or take a couple months. Oh, this is my first post by the way!

[The Snowman]

Yeah you said so. I was just too lazy to read your post and just responded to the title. You have no idea how many times I have seen people discussing time jump on this board and I've been here for only a month.

Anyways, the idea of a time jump doesn't seem interesting. But if there is to be one I think it won't be in the middle of a book, it'd be between TWoW and ADoS. Though that would still be a bad idea. Much and more could happen during these years and reading too many flashbacks will be boring. And you're saying your idea like Dany is the only storyline in the series. There are more important storylines, like Jon's if he's gonna be AA. Plus Dany already has more than enough forces, no need to unite everyone, though they'll be united. No one will want to fight against 10k unsullied, a lot of Dothraki and iron borns accompanied by 3 dragons.

And this winter is not like other normal winters. It will not end on its own. AA has to end it, so your reasoning that this winter is gonna last long is not correct. It can end 1000 years from now or just one year from now, depending on AA.

All this said, we might be surprised and see a time jump, though not in the middle of a book; it might be between TWoW and ADoS?

BTW, didn't GRRM say that he's abandoned his idea of time jump?

You've been on this form month and have 380 posts! haha thats pretty well done

Yeah I get what you're saying I just thought there might have been room for a jump but I suppose it all depends on when the Others decide to hit the wall or just walk around it.....which would be bad for westeros :leaving:

[ledlevee]

Since the 7th book is named after the return of spring, and winters normally last years in ASOIAF (And this one is gearing up to last decades...) I think a time jump is quite likely to occur.

But what if the long winters are brought about by the Others somehow, so once the Others are defeated, Spring could happen? I think things will change drastically for Westeros as the series goes on, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the end of Winter come sooner than expected.

As far as the time jump goes, I think GRRM said he'd resolve all of the cliffhangers early in WOW, so we could have something like this: The big battles and the cliffhangers from the end of DWD are resolved early on in WOW, then there is a time jump after the first part of the book and the rest of the book happens several years later. However, I'm not sure a time jump is absolutely necessary, at least not a huge time jump.

[Seed]

No way that all the best cliffhangers will be resolved at the beginning of TWOW. That would mean we either miss the struggle for the Iron Throne (which is what people want to see), or Tommen has been sitting the throne this whole time (boring, IMO).

[ledlevee]

By cliffhangers I think GRRM meant: Is Jon dead? Is Jaime going to survive? Is Stannis alive? Is Ramsay's letter for real? and the two battles. Basically, the cliffhangers that happen at the end of DWD.

[The Snowman]

No way that all the best cliffhangers will be resolved at the beginning of TWOW. That would mean we either miss the struggle for the Iron Throne (which is what people want to see), or Tommen has been sitting the throne this whole time (boring, IMO).

Personally couldn't care less about the fate of the Iron Throne atm, The first 150-200 pages should be solely of the battles of Ice/Winterfell & Mereen and of course the Wall. But thats just me personally

By cliffhangers I think GRRM meant: Is Jon dead? Is Jaime going to survive? Is Stannis alive? Is Ramsay's letter for real? and the two battles. Basically, the cliffhangers that happen at the end of DWD.

I don't want George to skip any cliffhangers and rely on flashbacks tbh. The Battle of Mereen is going to be epic! Want to see Barristan showing all the young lads how its done

[Romaine3]

So if GRRM were to tie up all the loose ends from Feast and ADWD within the first 300 pages or so, Part 2 of the book could begin 8-10 years later.

Rickon could then be a man-child.

Doubt that this will happen, but GRRM has been writing this series for 20 years! Up until the last book, most of us thought each book= 1 year.

I find it highly unlikely that fat Sam could make it from Castle Black to Braavos to Old Town in less than 2 years. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.

Anyone have a friend in Seattle? Would love to know which chapter was read this evening!

[Romaine3]

It seems to me that one of GRRM's biggest problems is the whole time thing.

I think he got so wrapped up in making sure that every little detail was uniform (so fans wouldn't bring up every little discrepancy they found between books when it was Q&A time) that he forgot about time! Now that he realizes its an issue, how does he fix it without having to rely on flashbacks?

Maybe we can think up a way lol.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I seriously doubt that there will be a time jump during TWOW, or between TWOW & ADOS. GRRM laid out the problem with the (dead and gone) "five year gap" in a number of interviews after the release of AFFC: namely, that it forced GRRM to take one of two equally unappealing approaches to the material. He could say that nothing much of importance happens for the adults in the intervening time, which allows the tension to slowly leak out of the story (imagining five years going by without anybody hearing about the Others, for example). Alternatively, he could say that quite a bit happened during the intervening time, which leaves him relating a bunch of things through flashbacks and memories that--if they were so important--should be taking place in the "present."

The upshot of this is that GRRM seemed quite resigned to the idea that the most important roles in the story would be played by children: "If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it."

[Faint]

I've always been shocked that the author couldn't foresee this problem at the outset; it makes you wonder how much of the story was truly planned.

[The Red Hand]

I've always been shocked that the author couldn't foresee this problem at the outset; it makes you wonder how much of the story was truly planned.

Hes said that all the major events and twists were planned, but much of the progression was to be decided I guess. I still think time will pass, just not the gap. A chapter that lasts a couple weeks then another chapter a couple months ahead until years have passed. Thats what I see.

[Faint]

Hes said that all the major events and twists were planned, but much of the progression was to be decided I guess. I still think time will pass, just not the gap. A chapter that lasts a couple weeks then another chapter a couple months ahead until years have passed. Thats what I see.

So it didn't occur to him at the start that there might issues with not having the adult characters do anything for five years? Or for the threat of the Others to be put on hold?

As I said, I think whatever outline he's always had in his head is a whole lot more vague than he lets on.

[Romaine3]

Honestly, the easiest way to age the characters would be in the back of the book.

Where he lists all of the characters involved, their houses, etc.

If GRRM would just be like, f**k it I need a time jump! Then he just aged the younger characters.

Would anyone really care?

The kid on tv playing Bran already looks around 10, they probably won't fire him when it's time for the season about ADWD just because he looks too old (or will they)...

At this point, I don't think the small time jumps are out of the question. It's winter now, with all of the fighting going on, no crops have been harvested, cities/castles are low on supplies etc. If a 5 year jump happened, everyone would starve. Either that, or people would have to eat the dead. Chapter's would read like, "Ser Fatty of house McGee died a fortnight ago. Even though his jests and lively spirit will be missed, we secretly cut the large man's rations so he would starve faster. We knew the remaining corpse of the rotund man would feed us all for at least a month."

[MGorgon]

So it didn't occur to him at the start that there might issues with not having the adult characters do anything for five years? Or for the threat of the Others to be put on hold?

As I said, I think whatever outline he's always had in his head is a whole lot more vague than he lets on.

Maybe he thought flashbacks were a great idea in his head until he started to actually write them. I find it hard to believe the major plots aren't already decided, because there's foreshadowing all over the books (Jon's parentage, the others, dany/the dragons, where the starks/lannisters/etc all end up). He isn't a master genius that can have a 7000+ page story all written down in his head in advance, that's being too harsh on him. The first book came out 16 years ago, to have it be as internally consistent as it is is a triumph of writing I think.

I'm just thankful it won't be like battlestar galactica, where they only started thinking about the finale at the very end :bawl:

[Romaine3]

Oh I also forgot to ask, is there an actual link to the actual Victarion chapter that was read last night?

Or is it just a link to notes that someone took while they listened?