Jon's "death" free him from his vows?

[eggV]

I don't think that Jon would consider that his "death"/ non-permament death free him from his vovs...Contrary to the opinion of many people here i think that he yhas mooved on from "Stark honor" rigid point of viev and LEARNED Qohorin's lesson.honor IS NO MORE his" god", whatever

Melisandre thinks:I' am sure that Jon has grown up to do whatever is needed to save as much people as he can ...He sticks more to the spirit and PURPOSE of his vovs(hey, Night wach was created to defend the realms of man, if night's watch is incapable of this, let's find another way!) - and the price WILL be the taint of oathbreaker..who will pledge his sword to such a man? Well, nearly everybody IF the OATHBREAKER Is the ONLY ONE or some of the few with a power to stop the Others...What power? Well that is to be seen.i don't think Robb's will or Targ heritage would be enough.

Why so many people think that Stark honor should be the highest virtue? Honor is not the same as being a good/decent man, it might be also stupid pride or incapacity to adapt to uncommon circomstances.Bloodraven was "kinslayer" because he shoot Blackfyres with arrows, maybe he would be "hero" if he used his sword or hammer like Robert : does this make him "a bad man"?

[Free Northman]

''Our honor means no more than our lives, as long as the Realm is saved.''

Says it all, really. Jon will do what is necessary to save the Realm. Even if it means giving up his vows due to a technicality.

I don't think that Jon would consider that his "death"/ non-permament death free him from his vovs...Contrary to the opinion of many people here i think that he yhas mooved on from "Stark honor" rigid point of viev and LEARNED Qohorin's lesson.honor IS NO MORE his" god", whatever

Melisandre thinks:I' am sure that Jon has grown up to do whatever is needed to save as much people as he can ...He sticks more to the spirit and PURPOSE of his vovs(hey, Night wach was created to defend the realms of man, if night's watch is incapable of this, let's find another way!) - and the price WILL be the taint of oathbreaker..who will pledge his sword to such a man? Well, nearly everybody IF the OATHBREAKER Is the ONLY ONE or some of the few with a power to stop the Others...What power? Well that is to be seen.i don't think Robb's will or Targ heritage would be enough.

Why so many people think that Stark honor should be the highest virtue? Honor is not the same as being a good/decent man, it might be also stupid pride or incapacity to adapt to uncommon circomstances.Bloodraven was "kinslayer" because he shoot Blackfyres with arrows, maybe he would be "hero" if he used his sword or hammer like Robert : does this make him "a bad man"?

Snap.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

I think he is released from his vows, but it's important to note that it's only on a technicality. Ultimately it's a choice for him to reaffirm his vow or not, and if he doesn't that speaks a lot about him as a character. I mean, it's like people who pay very low taxes using legal loopholes; they're legally okay, but what does that say about them as a person?

Probably so. This is skating on thin ice.

This is one guy that has always had trouble keeping his vows to the Watch.

[Free Northman]

Probably so. This is skating on thin ice.

This is one guy that has always had trouble keeping his vows to the Watch.

Maybe the lessons learned from Eddard's fall is that a vow is less important than doing what is right.

[Khal Porno]

Maybe the lessons learned from Eddard's fall is that a vow is less important than doing what is right.

I agree with this sentiment, and as I stated earlier I think Jon Snow is going to be seriously disillusioned with the Night's Watch after his "murder" and will likely not want anything to do with them, or if he does he will want to purge them and rebuild the Watch from the ground up.

[sifth]

I agree with this sentiment, and as I stated earlier I think Jon Snow is going to be seriously disillusioned with the Night's Watch after his "murder" and will likely not want anything to do with them, or if he does he will want to purge them and rebuild the Watch from the ground up.

yea I agree with this as well

[Buried Treasure]

Purge who? and how?

There are loyal elements still remaining within the Nights Watch; Jon has had no trouble from Denys Mallister save the usual grumblings of a subordinate officer for more resources. The same for Cottor Pyke - who has even mounted an extremely dangerous mission on Jons written orders (my take on the 'your command' written in one of Pyke's letters is that he would not have undertaken the mission of his own initiative, although if he believed it a suicidal waste of effort I don't think he would have obeyed those orders).

We see the politics at Castle Black in close-up, and they are thus more complicated. There are individuals that are loyal to Jon (his regular guards and stewards spring to mind) and there are obviously elements that are not. Jon's easily identified foes he has already done a lot to send away or split up; Thorne is on a ranging with 2 loyal men, the ex-goldcloaks are peppered amongst the new garrisons. That leaves maybe a couple of hundred men that probably mostly don't have strong personal feelings towards Jon. And among those hundreds perhaps a handful more that share the opinion of the assassins (but they cannot be identified until they act).

Is a revived Jon just going to kill every Black Brother whose loyalty he is not personally sure of? It will be a bloodbath. But he cannot 'purge' the NW in any other way - they are already the penal colony at the end of the world! He is going to have to try and continue as he has been doing;- risking putting his trust in people because he needs them. If he succeeds in winning more allies to the Wall he will not have to put as much trust in those brothers he is not personally sure of, but as LC he will still be making use of them somewhere in his plans.

[jons nissa]

I really don't see it. I can't see him getting out of anything on a technicality. He might walk away on account of them, you know, trying to kill him, or because the Watch has ceased to exist, or something. But I doubt he uses the, "Well I sort of died so I'm a free man" argument.

i think the question is how do people interpret this statement: "And now his watch is ended."

i don't think jon can or more importantly WOULD leave the watch on a technicality. but i think there are 3 things in play here.

first: what does one do if the watch doesn't want you anymore? the fact is, there was an attempt to kill him in order to NOT have him be lord commander anymore. so if he survived the attack, would he still be lord commander or would he be stripped of the title? then again, once you're the commander, you know a great deal about the inner workings so would they just want to demote him and keep him as a steward or ranger? would they make another attempt to remove him completely?

second: he may take a long time to be revived. would that change his reception back to the black? would the entire situation be different and more welcoming for him or the prince that was promised or the azor ahai or what ever? would stannis be in command and gladly welcome him back? would he want to go back after a serious attempt on his life? will the wall still exist?!!!!!

third: he finds out about r+l=j and realizes he has a much bigger role to play in order to stay true to the mission of the watch which is to the be the watcher, the fire, the light that brings the dawn and the shield that guards the realm of men. that's a tall order and jon might decide that is more manageable if he leaves the wall. it's hard to say how things will play out but i don't see jon leaving on a technicality. not now. but i'm not convinced he wouldn't leave if it made sense to him. or if he thought he had no other options.

[Stanmore]

Don't get what you're saying - Bowen Marsh will get his head chopped off too. Or he was immediately killed after the act, who knows. But does it mean Jon will stay with the NW? Dunno.

I'm saying that Jon's had enemies in the night's watch since day one, and he's always managed to deal with them. He knows that not everyone has been in favour of his appointment as Lord Commander, but that's never stopped him from doing his duty.

So why should an assasination attempt cause him to drop everything and go running back to Winterfell?