Ominous throwaway lines (spoilers)

[Margar]

This might be a stretch, but when I started reading GoT after completing the books the first time around, I thought it was peculiar that one of Theon's first few lines is "It's a freak," in regard to the Direwolf Robb and Jon find. Whether GRRM wrote that with Theon's future in mind or not, I still had to stop and enjoy the irony. No, Theon, it's you who is the freak, it rhymes with Reek. :(

[romantic]

More:-

1. When Melisandre pats Ghost, Jon calls him.

"Ghost," he called. "To me"

The direwolf looked at him as though he were a stranger.

Jon frowned in disbelief. "That's...queer."

"You think so?" She knelt and scratched Ghost behind his ear. "Your Wall is a queer place, but there is a power here, if you will use it. Power in you, and in this beast. You resist it, and that is your mistake. Embrace it. Use it."

I am not a wolf, he thought...

So Ghost looks at Jon like he's a stranger and Jon denies that he is wolf - maybe just to mean he can't be won over as easily as Ghost but maybe it means something more?

Melisandre also tells Jon there is power here for him to use.

2. She tries to get him to join with her to make more power and they talk about shadows..

'You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall."

Ygritte was kissed by fire. Jon's now kissed by the moon (maybe the opposite of the sun?) and has a shadow 20ft tall (there as another vision about a tall shadow but I can't remember it properly).

3. When the 3 NW men have their heads impaled on stakes

'Jon Snow grasped the spear that bore Garth Greyfeather's head and wrenched it violently from the ground. "Pull dow the other two." he commanded, and four of the crows hurried to obey. ... To the men struggling with the spears...'

I find it strange that a 16yo can pull a spear out of the frozen ground while 4 men struggle with 2 spears (assuming 2 men apiece). Could he be more powerful (physically as well as other types) because of the Wall?

4. When Melisandre was cheking out the carved chest that she had brought from Asshai and realised she had few powders left, she thinks...

'My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them...

I wonder what might happen if the wall's magic/protection is breached - could Melisandre suddenly find herself much weaker?

5. When Melisandre reveals Mance's glamour to Jon.

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamours are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones...."

Are bags of fingerbones that common? Could Davos' bag turn up again?

[Grimwolfe]

More:-

3. When the 3 NW men have their heads impaled on stakes

'Jon Snow grasped the spear that bore Garth Greyfeather's head and wrenched it violently from the ground. "Pull dow the other two." he commanded, and four of the crows hurried to obey. ... To the men struggling with the spears...'

I find it strange that a 16yo can pull a spear out of the frozen ground while 4 men struggle with 2 spears (assuming 2 men apiece). Could he be more powerful (physically as well as other types) because of the Wall?

5. When Melisandre reveals Mance's glamour to Jon.

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamours are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones...."

Are bags of fingerbones that common? Could Davos' bag turn up again?

Jon also lifted Alister Thorne by his throat off the ground with one hand, again rather impressive considering he's so young. But there are contradictions to this hidden strength as he finds it hard to withstand Mance's blows and even Emmetts i think. So maybe it's just some writing continuity errors on George's behalf, or maybe Jon only gets this strength when his emotions are spiking.

Yes i've also wondered about that bag of bones statement, i have a feeling there's more to that than just a passing statement. Maybe she intends to use a glamour of Davos against Stannis

[Teal'c]

3. When the 3 NW men have their heads impaled on stakes

'Jon Snow grasped the spear that bore Garth Greyfeather's head and wrenched it violently from the ground. "Pull dow the other two." he commanded, and four of the crows hurried to obey. ... To the men struggling with the spears...'

I find it strange that a 16yo can pull a spear out of the frozen ground while 4 men struggle with 2 spears (assuming 2 men apiece). Could he be more powerful (physically as well as other types) because of the Wall?

Jon also lifted Alister Thorne by his throat off the ground with one hand, again rather impressive considering he's so young. But there are contradictions to this hidden strength as he finds it hard to withstand Mance's blows and even Emmetts i think. So maybe it's just some writing continuity errors on George's behalf, or maybe Jon only gets this strength when his emotions are spiking.

Maybe they woke the dragon?

[tze]

Quaite to Dany: "Trust no one"

Arya: "I am no one"

And then there's Cersei and Tommen in AFFC:

Tommen’s face turned red. “No one told me.”

“No one? Is that what you call your lady wife?” The queen could smell Margaery Tyrell all over this rebellion.

There are times when I can't tell whether GRRM is actually giving us a Faceless Man hint for the present or future, or if he's simply trolling his readership.

Jon also lifted Alister Thorne by his throat off the ground with one hand, again rather impressive considering he's so young. But there are contradictions to this hidden strength as he finds it hard to withstand Mance's blows and even Emmetts i think. So maybe it's just some writing continuity errors on George's behalf, or maybe Jon only gets this strength when his emotions are spiking.

ASOIAF seems to be heavily inspired by Viking history and mythology, and Jon, on more than one occasion, seems to demonstrate the characteristics of a Norse beserker. See a definition here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

ASOIAF seems to be heavily inspired by Viking history and mythology, and Jon, on more than one occasion, seems to demonstrate the characteristics of a Norse beserker. See a definition here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

This is an interesting idea. See also, Jon going into a rage and beating the crap out of Iron Emmett.

[The Drunkard]

Woah. The whole Faceless Men thing being relevant when people talk about 'no one' just freaked me out.

Off to go reread the series.

[Stoned Dragon]

“You know my name,” said Yorko from the boat.

“Yorko Terys.” (Arya said)

“Valar dohaeris.” He pushed off with his oar and drifted back off into the deeper water. Arya watched him row back the way they’d come, until he vanished in the shadows of the bridge.

I didn't realize until now that Yorko wanted to ensure that Arya knew his name since faceless men cannot kill someone they know. Not sure if this counts as a throwaway ling perse, but def. something I find so cool!

[Jon Flowers]

Am I the only one who thinks the thing with the leathery wings in ths Sorrows is likely a large bat? Boring I know but far more likely than wyverns or Drogon or stone dragons, oh my. Is there any evidence that the mystery beast was a dragon other than having leathery wings? I'm curious about it now and my copy of Dance is lent out to my uncle in VA so I'm at everyone's mercy on this subject for the time being.

[bloodymime]

Jon also lifted Alister Thorne by his throat off the ground with one hand, again rather impressive considering he's so young. But there are contradictions to this hidden strength as he finds it hard to withstand Mance's blows and even Emmetts i think. So maybe it's just some writing continuity errors on George's behalf, or maybe Jon only gets this strength when his emotions are spiking.

Yes i've also wondered about that bag of bones statement, i have a feeling there's more to that than just a passing statement. Maybe she intends to use a glamour of Davos against Stannis

Where is this where Jon lifts Thorne up by his throat? I don't remember that at all and I haven't been able to find it.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Where is this where Jon lifts Thorne up by his throat? I don't remember that at all and I haven't been able to find it.

For my paperback version its page 958 in A Storm Of Swords. That's the end line of 4th to the last Jon Chapter.

[bloodymime]

For my paperback version its page 958 in A Storm Of Swords. That's the end line of 4th to the last Jon Chapter.

Thank you. Definitely some unusual strength from a fifteen year old boy recovering from both an arrow wound and the battle of the Wall.

[romantic]

Am I the only one who thinks the thing with the leathery wings in ths Sorrows is likely a large bat? Boring I know but far more likely than wyverns or Drogon or stone dragons, oh my. Is there any evidence that the mystery beast was a dragon other than having leathery wings? I'm curious about it now and my copy of Dance is lent out to my uncle in VA so I'm at everyone's mercy on this subject for the time being.

I believe that it's daytime. I don't think they explicitly say so but the fog, not night, seems to be hampering their vision. I guess that bats can fly around during the day but so far as I know there has been no mention of bats anywhere yet.

Edit: I found a reference to bats - when Sansa escapes KL the rumour is she flew away on leather wings like a large bat. So, it could be a bat or the wyvern mentioned earlier. (I really hope it's a dragon though).

[Pod The Impaler]

This might be a stretch, but when I started reading GoT after completing the books the first time around, I thought it was peculiar that one of Theon's first few lines is "It's a freak," in regard to the Direwolf Robb and Jon find. Whether GRRM wrote that with Theon's future in mind or not, I still had to stop and enjoy the irony. No, Theon, it's you who is the freak, it rhymes with Reek.

Damn. :eek:

[romantic]

The trip through the fog is also strange because they apparently go under the The Bridge of Dream twice:-

Tyrion thinks - 'Why does all of this seem so familiar?'...

The Shy Maid moved with the current. Her sail had not been raised since she first entered the Sorrows. She had no way to move but with the river...'

"The Bridge of Dream," said Tyrion.

"Inconceivable," said Haldon Halfmaester. "We've left the bridge behind. Rivers only run one way".

"Mother Rhoyne runs how she will," murmured Yandry.'

Admittedly Yandry doesn't seem that surprised though the others are (does he know something they don't and it's a prank they play on the new guys?).

And 'Bridge of Dream', doesn't 'Bridge of Dreams' sound better, unless there is 1 dream - the first time you go under the bridge?

And 3 lights are still lit on the completely ruined bridge under which Tyrion could see "... the shapes of stone men moving in the light, shuffling aimlessly around the lamps like slow grey moths."

Are the lamps deliberately lit to attract the stone men or are they some magic lamp that never goes out?

Before they approach the bridge for the first time, Griff warns everyone what to do if the stone men come close "...If need be, fend them off with the torches..." But as we know from the bridge lamps they are attracted to light so this might not be the best advice.

Okay, a lot of people might find this discussion pointless but (for those who don't) any ideas what this might all mean.

The place is much closer to Volantis than Valyria but was apparently a beautiful, majestic palace and city 1,000 years ago, before it was conquered by Valyria and Volantis. They "...hung Garin in a golden cage and made mock as he called upon his Mother to destroy them. But in the night the waters rose and drowned then, and from that day to this they have not rested. They are down there still beneath the water, they who were once the lords of fire. Their cold breath rises from the murk to make these fogs, and their flesh has turned as stony as their hearts."

Garin's curse is now called greyscale. Edit: According to this myth this location appears to be the source of greyscale.

So, maybe some combination of dragons, drowning and, and? (pages 269 -281 in my copy of ADWD:1).

Edit: This is a link to a crackpot theory I have about greyscale http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/67814-what-is-your-most-crackpot-theory/page__view__findpost__p__3335432

Edit: Also the group on the boat (Griff and Co.) know it's bad to go into the water in the sorrows because of the greyscale/stone men. Why doesn't anyone downstream (numerous towns and Volantis) worry that greyscale may flow with the water? Why do they keep sending infected people upstream of them?

[romantic]

The Drowned God

'What is dead may never die but rises again, harder and stronger' (saying of the Drowned God)

1. Aeron Greyjoy (uncle of Theon, brother to Euron and Victarion) drowns and rises as a prophet/priest 'Damphair' of the Drowned God:

"That man is dead. Aeron had drowned and been reborn from the sea, the god's own prophet."(AFFC:27ppb)

2. He drowns men (just men I think) and then brings them back to life with chest pumping and the 'kiss of life'. (AFFC: 18-19ppb[my paperback])

3. Damphair thinks 'Another one returned. It was a sign of the Drowned God's favour. Every other priest lost a man from time to time...But never Areon Greyjoy..." (AFFC:19ppb)

4. In ACoK he's described as tall and thin (158ppb). By AFFC he's described as tall and gaunt (289ppb). Maybe some activity iis taking its toll on him?

Could Damphair's drowned men be wights (and harder, stronger than ordinary men)?

Could Patchface be a prophet of the Drowned God (sorry if this is old news)? EDIT: this is old news see here http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61391-patchface-project/page__st__40#entry3177725

After Euron wins the Kingsmoot, Aeron decides to raise opposition to Euron:-"...In every town and village my voice shall be heard. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair..."(AFFC:487ppb)

Could Damphair raise his 'drowned men' against Euron?

Could this link to Melisandre's vision of a place of towers being swamped by something?

I didn't take a lot of notice of the Drowned God on my first read through but now I'm starting to think it might be more important than first thought because there are a number of similarities between R'hollor and the Drowned God:-

1, regular sacrifices

2. prophets and prophecies

3. maybe the creation of wights by both (as well as by the Others)

4. those blessed may be more powerful than non-blessed (Ironborn seem extraordinary fighters)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

^Actually I think it's the Storm God who identifies with the Red God, and the Drowned God that is lumped in with the Great Other. But good ideas. :)

[romantic]

And some other thoughts:-

Aeron, thinking of himself after his drowning:-"No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could ... nor memories, the bones of the soul"(AFFC:27ppb)

Later, when thinking about how he's been reborn he thinks, "Bones, he thought. The bones of the soul...The truth is in our bones, for flesh decays and bone endures..."(AFFC:29ppb)

Maybe a reference to the bones in the Winterfell crypts?

Aeron says "No mortal man could frighten him..."(AFFC:27) though Euron frightens him. Later, when Euron is trying to persuade the Ironborn to seek the dragons, someone disagrees saying the first storm will scatter them across half the earth. 'A smile played across Euron's bue lips. "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last..."(AFFC:495) Interestingly, Balon's (Theon's dad) earlier death is blamed on the Storm God by Damphair (AFFC:22) "The Storm God cast him down." the priest announced.'

So, what is Euron - mortal?, follower/priest of the Storm God? seer (blue lips from drinking the warlock's wine)?

[romantic]

^Actually I think it's the Storm God who identifies with the Red God, and the Drowned God that is lumped in with the Great Other. But good ideas. :)

Thank you - I didn't realise they were grouped this way.

The 'Seven Gods' of southern Westeros seem quite 'unmagical' in comparison. (As far as I know) they have no sacrifices, no prophets, no wights and no extraordinary powers for their followers. If magic leaves Westeros, the seven gods would probably be unaffected though the other gods (R'hollor, Drowned and Great Other) would be greatly affected.

[Margar]

Oh I remembered another one! It's Cat's POV from CoK, pg 349 us paperback: "The height of folly was reached when a plump fool came capering out in gold-painted tin with a cloth-lion's head, and chased a dwarf around tables, whacking him over the head with a bladder. Finally King Renly demanded to know why he was beating his brother.

'Why, Your Grace, I'm the Kinslayer,' the fool said.

'It's kingslayer, fool of a fool,' Renly said, and the hall rang with laughter."

I think this foreshadows Renly's due to Stannis, and then Tyrion's accusation that he killed Joff, and the murder of his own father. Perhaps of has implications for Jaime becoming a Kinslayer as well as being a kingslayer. It certainly could be evidence for Jamie being the valonqar Cersei was told about. At this point it looks like Jamie would have a better chance than Tyrion, if that prophecy means at all what we think it means.