Is Wow going to see the Starks vengence?

[WintersKing]

The only stark in a position to lead in their own right is Sansa. Jon would be one they would follow and be old enough to lead armys especially when Robbs will declares him King of the North. Small problem with a few knifes holes in him. Sansa may get somewhere if she frees herself of LF alternatively LF turns up with LF as her regent but I cant see Stannis tolerating LF. So at the moment it seems any Stark revival will have to be done under the wing of Manderely and Stannis. Manderlay will put a Stark on the throne of the North again if he can. Arya could leads an army probably better than most, since she has done some major stuff without anyones help. However no one in the North knows just how capable she is. Whatever happens the fate of the north has to return to the control of true Northmen, not Bolton with his southern backers. They then have get themselves in a position to sort out the rtest of westeros. This will take time. In this time one of the younger Starks may develop enough to lead. Jon if he lives will only accept this role if the others are fixed first. He would I believe give up his vows as a black brother if Robb did make him King of the North and accept the added responsibility this brings but not without protecting the realm first.

So I can see WOW putting together the pieces ready for a Stark revival under Stark leadership but not to see a Stark back in winterfell and in command of the North. Any moves that way will have to come first from Manderley/Stannis axis.

The Stark I see leading the final revenge in ADOS is Arya. Jon will come back only for a short time to fullfill his destiny (Bittersweet). Sansa will be queen of winterfell or Riverrun. Arya wll be whatever she chooses with all of westeros and bravos at her feet

Note: I haven't read this whole thread and someone may have posted this before me.

I find it interesting your note on how Arya might be the best suited to lead an army. Not only for the reasons you noted, but also the fact she was the famous/infamous Tywin Lannister's cupbearer for a time. Tywin had to restore his house as we are told in the text and as the Stark house stands it needs restoration. Who better to restore it than Arya?

Obviously, the Starks have certain roles to play. Some bigger than others. Jon may save the realm, Sansa may become a powerful player in the GOT, Bran is a greenseer, and Rickon may become the LOWF. Where does Arya fit? She fits as the leader to bring the Starks back! Just as Tywin did after his father shamed his house.

[jaymi216]

While i do think Bran's going to be vital in the battle against the others, I do not think he will become the king/warden of the north. To me it always seemed that when Bran was going north, he was going there for good, maybe even one day ending up like the three eyed crow. But even if he did get back south, I don't think its plausible that he would beable to rule the north. Its going to be very hard to hide the fact that he's a warg, and no northern lord is going to accept a skinchanging, crippled king.

they'll accept him being the eldest trueborn son of Ned Stark. And trust me, when you're in the thick of things with the Others, the last thing you do is not accept a greenseer as your leader. It's not like Warging is a disease, how will they know he's a warg unless he tells them? and if he does, I doubt that'll change much. He won't be able to walk (perhaps, although it's not at all certain) but he'll most definitely fly (on his own, not just warg in a raven or dragon). The knowledge he'll accumulate during his time North of the Wall will be vital. ALSO, he ruled Winterfell while Robb went to war. All the Lords know him, attended the Harvest and those who went to war first assembled at Winterfell's Great Hall with Bran and Robb. Also, recognized him as Prince, and he's their rightful king. It's not like they're accepting a stranger. It's Arya and Sansa they'll have trouble accepting if one or both of the girls decide to retake Winterfell without one of the boys present (Bran or Rickon). FINALLY, it seems to me that history will repeat himself. DO NOT FORGET who raised the Wall, and Winterfell and Storm's End. GRRM wouldn't have stressed the importance of the name "Brandon Stark" throughout the history of the North if he didn't have great plans for the current Brandon Stark. I truly believe he'll end up being the crippled Aragorn of the series. Not Aegon or Danaerys Targaryen, not Jon Snow, and not Rickon.

OH, plus he has the Reed children with him, setting the stage for the appearance of Ned Stark's most trusted friend, the Lord of Greywater Watch and ruler of the Neck, Howland Reed. Only person alive (save perhaps Allyria Dayne) that knows the true parentage of Jon Snow, since he fought by Ned Stark throughout the Rebellion till the Tower of Joy. For these reasons, Bran will find a way to go back down south of the wall, and with him the remaining Wildings, a huge pack of wolves led by Summer (another reason he'll come back, HIS WOLF'S Name is Summer, hope that Winters don't last forever), and the children of the Forest.

[total1402]

they'll accept him being the eldest trueborn son of Ned Stark. And trust me, when you're in the thick of things with the Others, the last thing you do is not accept a greenseer as your leader. It's not like Warging is a disease, how will they know he's a warg unless he tells them? and if he does, I doubt that'll change much. He won't be able to walk (perhaps, although it's not at all certain) but he'll most definitely fly (on his own, not just warg in a raven or dragon). The knowledge he'll accumulate during his time North of the Wall will be vital. ALSO, he ruled Winterfell while Robb went to war. All the Lords know him, attended the Harvest and those who went to war first assembled at Winterfell's Great Hall with Bran and Robb. Also, recognized him as Prince, and he's their rightful king. It's not like they're accepting a stranger. It's Arya and Sansa they'll have trouble accepting if one or both of the girls decide to retake Winterfell without one of the boys present (Bran or Rickon). FINALLY, it seems to me that history will repeat himself. DO NOT FORGET who raised the Wall, and Winterfell and Storm's End. GRRM wouldn't have stressed the importance of the name "Brandon Stark" throughout the history of the North if he didn't have great plans for the current Brandon Stark. I truly believe he'll end up being the crippled Aragorn of the series. Not Aegon or Danaerys Targaryen, not Jon Snow, and not Rickon.

OH, plus he has the Reed children with him, setting the stage for the appearance of Ned Stark's most trusted friend, the Lord of Greywater Watch and ruler of the Neck, Howland Reed. Only person alive (save perhaps Allyria Dayne) that knows the true parentage of Jon Snow, since he fought by Ned Stark throughout the Rebellion till the Tower of Joy. For these reasons, Bran will find a way to go back down south of the wall, and with him the remaining Wildings, a huge pack of wolves led by Summer (another reason he'll come back, HIS WOLF'S Name is Summer, hope that Winters don't last forever), and the children of the Forest.

I'd actually say Bran is closer to Frodo than Aragon; it was technically Frodo who defeated Sauron by throwing the ring into Mount Doom. Everything the other charatcers did was distraction and stalling. Thats how the set-up seems to me IMO.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I find it interesting your note on how Arya might be the best suited to lead an army. Not only for the reasons you noted, but also the fact she was the famous/infamous Tywin Lannister's cupbearer for a time. Tywin had to restore his house as we are told in the text and as the Stark house stands it needs restoration. Who better to restore it than Arya?

Say what? Arya was only Roose Bolton’s cupbearer, never Tywin Lannister’s.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I'd actually say Bran is closer to Frodo than Aragon; it was technically Frodo who defeated Sauron by throwing the ring into Mount Doom. Everything the other charatcers did was distraction and stalling. Thats how the set-up seems to me IMO.

Frodo never threw the ring into Mt Doom. He commanded that if Sméagol should touch him again, that the treacherous cad should throw himself into the fire, and further made Sméagol swear upon the Precious.

So when Gollum broak his oath and seized the Ring, he triggered the magical conditions of his fateful binding, and pitched himself headlong into the Sammath Naur. Alas for its maker, the Ring was in his hand at the time, so perished with him, proving the adage that “Oft evil will shall evil mar.”

But Frodo did not cast the Ring into the fire, except incredibly indirectly. Without Gollum, the Quest would have failed utterly.

[TrentonMartell]

they'll accept him being the eldest trueborn son of Ned Stark. And trust me, when you're in the thick of things with the Others, the last thing you do is not accept a greenseer as your leader. It's not like Warging is a disease, how will they know he's a warg unless he tells them? and if he does, I doubt that'll change much. He won't be able to walk (perhaps, although it's not at all certain) but he'll most definitely fly (on his own, not just warg in a raven or dragon).

Even if he doesn't tell him, its still not that hard to see. People accused Robb of being a warg, even though he did not have any developed warging abilities. Remember that Jojen Reed was able to spot Bran's abilities back in book two, and his abilities have only intensified by now. And warging is treated like a disease, a very terrible one at that. Remember, Varamyr sixskin's father cast him out of his home when he discovered his abilities. Also remember how much of a slander "warg" was during the elections of Lord Commander. Considering the culture of Westeros, i do not think that Bran will ever rule Winterfell.

Not that that is a bad thing. I think that in the battle against the Others (which is far more important than deciding who sits in what castle), Bran will play the most pivotal role than any other character. Like you said, a Brandon built the Wall to defend the realm, and now a Brandon will defend the realm again. Bran has never expressed any great interest to rule, and IIRC, he even says that he would rather learn from the three eyed crow than rule from Winterfell.

[Vangelis Matos Medina]

OK, this topic made me create a account.

I just wish to see the starks together one more time, before GRRM kill anyone of them.

Arya: Should return as a assassin, i don't see her with a army.

Jon: Will hold the wall until the death, if he isn´t already dead.

Sansa: Could make a alliance north/vale.

Rickon: i really cant image any kind of cannibal army...... i hope for house Manderly to suport him. Wyman won my respect.

Bran: Will be the motherfuck against the others.

[jon rr stark]

Note: I haven't read this whole thread and someone may have posted this before me.

I find it interesting your note on how Arya might be the best suited to lead an army. Not only for the reasons you noted, but also the fact she was the famous/infamous Tywin Lannister's cupbearer for a time. Tywin had to restore his house as we are told in the text and as the Stark house stands it needs restoration. Who better to restore it than Arya?

Obviously, the Starks have certain roles to play. Some bigger than others. Jon may save the realm, Sansa may become a powerful player in the GOT, Bran is a greenseer, and Rickon may become the LOWF. Where does Arya fit? She fits as the leader to bring the Starks back! Just as Tywin did after his father shamed his house.

Yes I agree. I think she is such a big character and its obvious from the start that she was never going to be the wife of some minor lord looking after a keep or small castle and she is certainly not lady of the manor material. Arya is a wolf looking for a pack to lead. Sandor jaquen ned syrio the kindly man tywin all saw more to her than the seemingly little girl orphen. Ayra doesn't fit anywhere, she is going to make her own place. If we see the direwolves as a reflection of each of the Starks we have Jon with ghost as the lone wolf, shaggywolf as wild, lady prematurely dead so out of the action, etc but Nymeria is the boss of a huge pack. The Starks need something special to be the game changer. That will be Arya, I think it is her destiny to lead like Nymeria, there is enough foreshadowing of her looking to strong powerful queens. So my guess she could be the one to end up on the Throne, not the obvious characters.

[Planeta]

I meant Ramsay Bolton to chew his fingers.

Roose can go do a Stannis.

[jon rr stark]

If it was any other Author bar GRRM then the Starks would see vengeance, one of them would rule Westeros and either vanquish their enemies or have them bend the knee.

I read the first book over 10 years ago and I'm STILL dirty about the demise of Ned Stark not to mention some of the other twists!

GRRM isn't one of those Authors.

I see WoW dealing with issues in the north (as the title states) primarily concentrating on humanity v the others. GRRM has this well planned out. The plot would have been sorted years ago and he'll keep to it. He'll just build you up, give you a sense of hope that all will work out and then take it all away with the grace of Sam Tarly's swordwork. That's where his true talent lies.

I would like to see:

The Starks return to some sort of high place in the realm

Roose Bolton chew his fingers off

Theon Greyjoy get justice served

Cersei get raped by a horse

Stannis to piss off and be grumpy somewhere else

Littlefinger to be betrayed by the Tyrells

Edmure Tully to avenge his sister(s) and Robb Stark

Tyrion to get the recognition he deserves

Arya Stark to fullfill her dreams

Danaerys to burn Melisandre with one of her kids

A massive battle between the Unsullied and Westerosi knights

Gendry to kick arse like his old man did

That's only a few that I can think of but GRRM won't go for that. Either way I can't wait!!!!

I have read the books all together as only heard of the series when the HBO series started. So in the context of knowing that it was a seven book series although disappointing it was not that shocking to see the demise of Ned and the red wedding. With Ned alive there is no story, he had to die to set up the whole rest of the narrative as did all the older generation characters from the rebellion. This is the time for the new generation. As to the red wedding, no didnt see it coming but was aware that such Stark success under Robb would have left him on the throne long before a seventh book given his undefeated progress. It was just too early in a seven book series for the good guys to be winning. I see those two being the major shocks that has given GRRM his rep as bucking the fantasy trend. But looked at in light of a seven book series its not realy out of place, neither transpires to be the major character of the series. It is the song of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Tragaryen) so they must come together somehow in the end. Therefore we shall see both come to promenance in westeros in the end.

[David C. Hunter]

i like your list. but, why is it EVERYONE FORGETS ABOUT BRAN?!?!?!?! his is the most important POV when it comes to White Walkers now that Jon could be dead and Sam is in Oldtown. plus HE IS THE TRUE LORD OF WINTERFELL AND KING IN THE NORTH AND THE LANDS OF THE TRIDENT!!!.

I didnt forget him, but there is no way to predict how powerful Bran will become, thus impossible to figure just exactly what he will do in the series. Hell the most powerful greenseers are capable of plate tectonics evidently. Sky is the limit for Bran and Bloodraven

[Planeta]

I have read the books all together as only heard of the series when the HBO series started. So in the context of knowing that it was a seven book series although disappointing it was not that shocking to see the demise of Ned and the red wedding. With Ned alive there is no story, he had to die to set up the whole rest of the narrative as did all the older generation characters from the rebellion. This is the time for the new generation. As to the red wedding, no didnt see it coming but was aware that such Stark success under Robb would have left him on the throne long before a seventh book given his undefeated progress. It was just too early in a seven book series for the good guys to be winning. I see those two being the major shocks that has given GRRM his rep as bucking the fantasy trend. But looked at in light of a seven book series its not realy out of place, neither transpires to be the major character of the series. It is the song of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Tragaryen) so they must come together somehow in the end. Therefore we shall see both come to promenance in westeros in the end.

Most of the Fantasy books I've read deal with the "A group of heroes saves the realm against impossible odds" and the main hero is a solid, stand up person.

When I read GoT i nearly fell over as it didn't follow that theme. GRRM does this stuff so well and I understand the need for certain critical events but he's literally brutal with some of it.

More, more, more!

[Northern Vengeance]

Note: I hI find it interesting your note on how Arya might be the best suited to lead an army. Not only for the reasons you noted, but also the fact she was the famous/infamous Tywin Lannister's cupbearer for a time. Tywin had to restore his house as we are told in the text and as the Stark house stands it needs restoration. Who better to restore it than Arya?

Arya was only Tywin's cupbearer in the TV adaptation.

[Northern Vengeance]

Why is it EVERYONE FORGETS ABOUT BRAN?!?!?!?! his is the most important POV when it comes to White Walkers now that Jon could be dead and Sam is in Oldtown. plus HE IS THE TRUE LORD OF WINTERFELL AND KING IN THE NORTH AND THE LANDS OF THE TRIDENT!!!.

Actually, everyone thinks Bran is dead but Sam and those the mute told so Jon was legitimised and is Rob's heir due to the will. Stannis would give the same terms (apart from the King of The North and The Trident part - just Winterfell, Warden Of The North, etc), so that he'd have a Stark backer. The only thing that stopped Jon from taking Stannis up on the offer was his oath to The Night's Watch... who just tried to kill him. Whereas it is unlikely that Bran will ever come south again and as you said is the POV most likely to show us the White Walkers.

[WTFSalami]

It would be nice if Rickon made it back to Winterfell, Sansa breaks free of LF and gain some sort of power in the North, and of course Arya making her way back to Westeros.

The best case scenario would be their enemies seeing or knowing about these events before their downfall.

The Boltons and Freys should be wiped from the realm and the Lannisters should have a big downfall.

I doubt if there will be this much justice.

The Lannisters have already had a big downfall.

The greatest Lord in all the realm in Tywin Lannister was killed by Tyrion Lannister who is now exhiled across the Narrow Sea. Jaime Lannister, the greatest swordsman in the realm had his sword hand taken from him. Cersei Lannister was arrested, forced to walk the streets of King's Landing naked, and now awaits a trial for her life. Kevan Lannister was assassinated by Varys the Spider.

[total1402]

Yes I agree. I think she is such a big character and its obvious from the start that she was never going to be the wife of some minor lord looking after a keep or small castle and she is certainly not lady of the manor material. Arya is a wolf looking for a pack to lead. Sandor jaquen ned syrio the kindly man tywin all saw more to her than the seemingly little girl orphen. Ayra doesn't fit anywhere, she is going to make her own place. If we see the direwolves as a reflection of each of the Starks we have Jon with ghost as the lone wolf, shaggywolf as wild, lady prematurely dead so out of the action, etc but Nymeria is the boss of a huge pack. The Starks need something special to be the game changer. That will be Arya, I think it is her destiny to lead like Nymeria, there is enough foreshadowing of her looking to strong powerful queens. So my guess she could be the one to end up on the Throne, not the obvious characters.

So you think Arya will end up marrying Jon Targaryian at the end; since they'd be cousins not bro n sis?

I generally assumed that her admiration for strong warrior Queens and Nymeria as pack leader was to emphasise her strength/ruthlessness and will. I wouldn't have said Aryas arc was going for her being a Queen or a leader. It would be a pretty big u-turn in the lengthy development of her as an assasian. I suppose she could take the place of anybody and learning essentially people skills along the way is equatable to leadership qualities. Plus she did good along the trident with Gendry n hot pie. Trouble is Westerosi society isn't going to give her much slack; as Asha found out with the Ironborn. She could take over the Braavosi sell-sword companies heading to Westeros by killing then taking the place of the leader I suppose. I'd say Arya becoming a Queen would only be an unexpected twist at the end and not part of her main arc.

[jon rr stark]

So you think Arya will end up marrying Jon Targaryian at the end; since they'd be cousins not bro n sis?

I generally assumed that her admiration for strong warrior Queens and Nymeria as pack leader was to emphasise her strength/ruthlessness and will. I wouldn't have said Aryas arc was going for her being a Queen or a leader. It would be a pretty big u-turn in the lengthy development of her as an assasian. I suppose she could take the place of anybody and learning essentially people skills along the way is equatable to leadership qualities. Plus she did good along the trident with Gendry n hot pie. Trouble is Westerosi society isn't going to give her much slack; as Asha found out with the Ironborn. She could take over the Braavosi sell-sword companies heading to Westeros by killing then taking the place of the leader I suppose. I'd say Arya becoming a Queen would only be an unexpected twist at the end and not part of her main arc.

No I dont think she will marry Jon. Whatever transpires with R+L=J she will always be his brother. I think it is a possibility she will reach the top of the pile in her own right as I have a sneaking suspicion that Jon Dany will not survive and somehow yes with a twist she could be on the throne.Perhaps married to Gendry so preserving the baratheon bloodline. As to others in westeros accepting her I dont see them as being in a position as having the choice as she will be head of the northern forces (whatever shape that will come in?). Ok there is quite a stretch in there but I just think she cannot just end up as a FM or married off to anyone, she will control her own destiny and that lies in a return of Stark power. Jon's edventual permanent demise I see as the bittersweet ending, so of the remaining Starks she fits the bill of the one left who could lead.

[total1402]

No I dont think she will marry Jon. Whatever transpires with R+L=J she will always be his brother. I think it is a possibility she will reach the top of the pile in her own right as I have a sneaking suspicion that Jon Dany will not survive and somehow yes with a twist she could be on the throne.Perhaps married to Gendry so preserving the baratheon bloodline. As to others in westeros accepting her I dont see them as being in a position as having the choice as she will be head of the northern forces (whatever shape that will come in?). Ok there is quite a stretch in there but I just think she cannot just end up as a FM or married off to anyone, she will control her own destiny and that lies in a return of Stark power. Jon's edventual permanent demise I see as the bittersweet ending, so of the remaining Starks she fits the bill of the one left who could lead.

That would mean an extreme bodycount for her to be head of Northern forces and be Queen. Dany, Jon, Bran, Rickon, Sansa.

I'am actually refering explicitly to the Northern forces. This is still a hugely patriarchal society. Dany was very much an exception largely due to her dragons and having guardians like Jorah/Barristan around her. Plus as the breaker of chains she never had to trouble herself with issues like knights taking her seriously. If you look at Brienne and Asha prooven ability is not enough to guarentee getting respect or position. For Arya to be in charge would take various other things to happen to be believable when this context about female leaders has been so well established. ie most of the Starks dead. So I think her becoming a Queen or Lady of court, what she never wanted; would be her bittersweet ending. Not part of her main arc. Then again I suppose "Come the Apocalypse" they might not mind. But still, her arc has been so focused on vengence and going to have 3 books dedicated to her training as a FM it would be odd if that didn't go somewhere.

[kneo]

Rest assured, the wolves will come again.

He poked at the fire with his stick. “It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf’s dead and young one’s gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that’s left us is the ghosts.”

“The wolves will come again,” said Jojen solemnly.

“And how would you be knowing, boy?”

“I dreamed it."

[pitakon]

Rickon is probably gonna be used by Manderly, to fight Sansa and the Vale. and they will end up killing one another. The only revenge the Starks are gonna get is from Arya sticking her pointy stick on other people's neck.