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Did Shae ever really love Tyrion?


Lady Snowcat

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  • 2 weeks later...

I saw the tv series first and thought their relationship was really sweet so I was a bit surprised to see what their relationship was like in the books.

Tyrion's slapping her really bothered me, it's probably the only thing he's ever done that I really hated. I mean, I know sometimes you gotta slap a ho down but... lol juuust kidding. And her "all they did was fuck her" line made me feel sick. She's definitely a lot less likable in the books.

Shae was a prostitute, a very good one. Tyrion desperately wants to be loved and understood and he was definitely under a lot of stress as Hand so I understand it was necessary for him to have the comfort of a woman that was his but he let himself forget the true nature of that relationship.

I guess he got so attached to her because he likes underdogs and he wanted to believe that she fit into his "bastards, cripples, and broken things" category and maybe she did but ultimately she has learned to survive by acting and by manipulating men. He was a good sugar daddy so he made her job easier, she was very spoiled so she probably really liked him because she really liked his money. She was uneducated and all about survival, she wasn't going to be able to love him for the person he is.

I hope he eventually falls in love (again) and it actually works out. That would be nice.

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I know we have a 'Did Cersei ever really love Jaime' thread but how about a 'Did Shae ever really love Tyrion thread.'

In my own demented fantasy, Dany & Tyrion meet and she falls madly in love with his wit & cunning ( and the fact that he has 1/2 a nose & two different collored eyes!) and they rule Westeros together: Beauty & the Beast. All hail Danaerys Stormborn and Tyrion Lannister, 1st of their names. :bowdown:

Is there really a 'Did Cersei ever really love Jaime' thread? You people actually read these books, right? :dunno:

When all is said and done I do see Tyrion and Dany as allies, but not as lovers. :P

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No, she didn't love him and in the books it is much more clear that she didn't. They have made her a much more sympathetic character in the show and even with that my Dad this weekend commented (he's not reading the books, but I got him to watch the first two seasons) and after watching he said - Tyrion's dad and that Shae are no good. I bet Tyrion gets them in the end. He's also predicted Robb's demise as well. My Dad is good at catching foreshadowing or something.

Anyway, after learning the lie that Tyrion was led to believe all his life about Tysha and now starting to read about how Cersei was abusive toward him, the things Tywin said to him and, in general, how everyone views and treats him - I find Tyrion to be probably the most heartbreaking character in the series. I want him to win, but I don't know that he can.

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I (like Varys) always have to shake my head/snicker when this question comes up. I mean what part of "prostitute" is so hard to understand? But then, I thought she was Tywin's spy from the very beginning.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think Shae loved him in her own way, which is a prostitute's way and not really the equivalent of actual love with no other benefits.

Tywin's character change is more confusing to me book vs show. I started to like him when Arys was his cup-bearer, I found him to be charismatic, hard as nails, but possibly righteous in some Lannister way?

It doesn't fit well, Shae being in his bed, so more confusion there even. Which makes me think, yes, Tywin got played one more time, possibly by Varys - and yet Varys once again is starting to smell like roses on the TV show, as having more empathy than Littlefinger, for example, more humanity and companionship to Tyrion. Tyrion is one of the most valiant characters to my mind.

My silly hopes are that Jon Snow and Daenerys become the fire and ice, lovers and partners ruling, with Tyrion as hand again. Ah, but who can tell, there is little predictable about the books. Love 'em!!

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I don't think Shae loved Tyrion at any point... buuuuut...

I think it's possible she might have loved him for a while. Till she heard about Tysha.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but i think it was since Tyrion told her about Tysha that Shae began to ramp up her demands, and focusing only on wanting jewels and pretty dresses. If this were true, she might have correctly deduced that Tyrion still had powerful feelings for Tysha and his feelings for Shae were only a reflection, a substitute. Tyrion never really loved Shae, as much as he was kind to her.

So, while i think not, this is a possibility i consider.

On the other hand, i think Tyrion was plenty justified to kill her. She had just needlessly lied to get him killed, and reveled on it.

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In the books I think Shae cared for Tyrion as much as she was able. I don't think she had much of a choice other than to testify against Tyrion. Horrible death or promise of wealth, a better life? Of course Tywin is a despicable hypocrite. In the series, Shae seems genuinely to love Tyrion. I think she will die some other way and the audience will experience how Tyrion's father ruined his life,again.

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I don't think that the Shae in the books ever loved Tyrion. She was doing what she had to do to make money and survive.

The show Shae is a little different because they've suggested that she does actually care for him. However, I still think he might end up killing her. Think about it: If she really does care about Tyrion but he marries Sansa, Shae's going to be crazy jealous, especially since she's Sansa's handmaiden and has to serve them both every day. That could then be why she ends up testifying against him and bedding Tywin, because she feels betrayed by his marrying Sansa. I don't know if the producers are going to go this way but it's a definite possibility and would tie up a lot of loose ends for viewers that have been on the minds of readers of the series.

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As most of you no, I don't think she ever really loved him. She was a really good actress though, because it is actually hard to uhm get sexually aroused by someone you find so hideous, of course there are ways to get around that... specially if you're a whore.

I think she kind of liked him in her own way... which means he was kind to her, got her a castle-like experience and implicitly filled her head with promises of nice dresses and necklaces. He knew that but in the end gave in to the pretty lie, which of course makes it kind of his fault he felt so betrayed by her. I don't think he never wanted to keep her safe. He did but didn't want to let go of that phony happiness she gave him, which kinda supports my next paragraph.

I also don't believe he actually loved her, he just thought he did because she always made him feel wanted and I don't think he had ever gotten something like that (except with Tysha).

The thing about how the whole thing might have been plotted by Tywin seems reasonable enough for me to consider it a possible theory. As many of you have said, he knows his son, his weaknesses and defiance. I was not surprised at all about her being in Tywin's bed and I don't think she was drugged into it because Tyron sees her smile and say "M'lord" before she realizes it's him, which implies she knew where she was and thought it was Tywin approaching her instead of his son (Tyron realizes that as well).

As for the theory about Shae being jealous of Sansa well... in a way it's a nice thought and maybe it did annoy her but I don't think she was actually jealous. Or maybe she naively thought that one day she could marry Tyron and be a lady and have all the jewels and silks she wanted so much, and that's why she gave all those hurtfull unnecessary details at the trial. Hehe or maybe she just did it for the pleasure and release of finally saying how much she hated having sex with him. Either way she either wanted to punish him somehow or had beenTywin's pet all along.

One other thing. I do find Varys' lack of... refusal to giving Tyron instructions to find the entrance to Tywin's bedroom highly suspicious... I mean he was saving Tyron's life, if he hadn't really wanted Tyron to find the room he would have found a way to disuade him... like telling him something like "I'm not telling you and you can't force me because that will just get you false directions and you don't want to get lost down here".

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I am reluctant to accept that Shae was a plot of Tywin's all along. I don't think she was a plot of Tywin's even during the trial.

For all his faults, i don't believe Tywin would have sent Tyrion to the Wall, or get him killed, knowing him innocent. And if Shae was a spy planted by Tywin, he would know it. Having to chose between Cersei and Tyrion, i'm sure he would chose Tyrion (she had proved herself to him already to be an idiot unable to control Joffrey and a bad mother), but Cersei's preparation of the trial was kind of airtight.

If Shae was in Tywin's employ, he could have unravelled her plot.

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As for the theory about Shae being jealous of Sansa well... in a way it's a nice thought and maybe it did annoy her but I don't think she was actually jealous. Or maybe she naively thought that one day she could marry Tyron and be a lady and have all the jewels and silks she wanted so much, and that's why she gave all those hurtfull unnecessary details at the trial. Hehe or maybe she just did it for the pleasure and release of finally saying how much she hated having sex with him. Either way she either wanted to punish him somehow or had beenTywin's pet all along.

I don't think she was jealous in the book. I was just speculating on how the producers of the series are going to play it in the show, especially considering how they showed her telling Tyrion: "I am yours and you are mine." They suggest that she actually does care for him. If that's true then when Tyrion marries Sansa it's gonna make sense for her to feel jealous and betrayed.

Like I said, I don't know if the producers will go that way but it looks like a possibility to me.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I believe Shae & Tyrion would have had a better chance of a real relationship if they were able to be honest and open about it. Nothing good comes of darkness (for the night is dark and full of terrors! heehee) But, really, how could a love really develop when they had to sneak and hide and watch their backs. As far as Tywin and Tyrion's relationship I think Tyrion must take after his mother, a gentler kinder person than Tywin. Although Tyrion is a Lannister, many of his seedier attributes seem to be learned, and used as payback to his own family. I believe if his mother had lived, we would be seeing a different Tyrion. I do love Tyrion, his wit, his love of books and wine! I think when Tywin looks at Tyrion he is reminded of his late wife in many ways and he allows it to rule his emotions and decisions. He lashes out from hurt. This doesn't excuse it...he's an evil bastard who got his just rewards!

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Shae at the trial mocks tyrion, straight up. Someone who loves another would not do that unless, 1) their own or their beloved lives were at danger, 2)The two parties had a horrible break-up, or 3)It's a classic "She's all That" scenario where the popular plays games with the unpopular as a farce. I'll explain.

1)Assuming Shae was in love with Tyrion her testimony at his trial would be based on the assumption that if she did not divulge those secret and intimate moments with the court that she may be executed. So she chose the safety of her own life over that of the one she loved. Being on trial, Tyrion's life was at stake and Shae took the opportunity to further cement his unsavory character, while providing conspiracy theories she "overheard" between him and Sansa, while portraying herself as an innocent victim. Stone Cold evil in my book.

2)Lovers who feel let down or wronged by their counterpart will exact revenge by broadcasting any and every embarrassing moment the other party experienced for vindication and vengence. Break-ups are tough for everyone who goes through them but the relationship between Tyrion and Shae had no such fissure. Tyrion's only slight on Shae was his reluctance to bring her to court, or dress her in gowns far beyond her means (as she stood in the court) in public as to not raise suspicion about their relationship among the snakes and spiders who dwell in King's Landing. Cersei beat a whore that she thought was Tyrion's concubine in an attempt to hurt and intimidate her little brother. Of course, Shae herself, could have felt belittled and wronged by Tyrion"s public facade and sought out retribution. That we may never know. But Tyrion himself, who is the main person we see Shae through, seemed to trust and respect her enough to try to prevent the same fate his Tysha suffered.

3)If Shae was Tywin's spy, she would have to have been converted after meeting Tyrion. Bronn takes Shae from another Lannister soldier's tent and brings her to Tyrion. (I know that is accurate in the tv show, "Stat girl" can look up the novel verification. I may be wrong. Its ok, I've been wrong about a lot of things in this Song) For Tywin to have the for sight to place this one girl in this one soldier's tent that a sell sword that Tyrion picked up in his "adventure" to the Vale is a bit of a stretch logically. But, After naming Tyrion the acting Hand of the King while Tywin focuses his efforts on the Tyrells, Tywin may have found out about Shae and used her to keep and eye and an ear on Tyrion as to his plans and comings-and-goings at King's Landing. The soldier would have tipped Tywin off. Now this would play into the Haves manipulating the Have-Nots in that, as Tyrion is constantly reminding himself of the ultimate heartbreak he suffered with the last girl he cared about, Shae consistently comes to him with sweet words and pleasurable gestures. Seemingly always trying to regain trust, put his worries at ease, and create a closeness between them. All along playing Tyrion for a fool for the gratitude and affection of Lord Tywin.

For me, any notion of love between Shae towards Tyrion all comes undone at the trial. Tyrion never says "call me a giant". He's too realistic for that. For Shae to do him like she did at the trial, only to wind up in Tywin's bed, she had no love for Tyrion.

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