Seattle reading, any details?

[revenant6]

Thanks for the info from the Seattle read! The added info about his hand is very interesting. Makes me think of him as becoming an opposite number to Coldhands so to speak.

This, by itself, is a pretty interesting tidbit (Tyrion's long boat ride coming in TWOW, etc., unless this was already in one of his ADWD chapters and I missed it).

@total1402 - re: Jorah vs. Victarion

In AFFC, Vic does mention he'd give his teeth to try out his axe against the Kingslayer or the Knight of Flowers. He's got himself a similarly famous knight right in Meereen: a more interesting, be-careful-what-you-wish-for encounter might be one with Barristan.

Sorry for any confusion, but the boatride was in dance. Sorry if I messed you up!

[Satoris T Born]

For god's sake, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE kill Victarion. He is on my top 3 list of characters I am readiest to see go for their sheer uselessness.

He's already dead. He died in his cabin and he was brought back. It's the only time a POV actually exits the view of a character (outside his cabin door). So you already got your wish.

[revenant6]

On football - another reference is the Pat/GRRM special - the really neat thing is that the Giant that kills the Cowboy was nicknamed wun wun.

Wun wun == 1 1 or 11, or the number of Phil Simms, one of the most famous Giants ever to play football.

Whoa. Man that guy is deep. Nice catch!

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

He's already dead. He died in his cabin and he was brought back. It's the only time a POV actually exits the view of a character (outside his cabin door). So you already got your wish.

I think it's the second time. As I recall, Dany's final chapter in AGOT employs a similar device, where GRRM briefly goes to Jorah's POV before returning to Dany and her newborn dragons. I think that's less about Victarion dying, and more about drawing a veil over a mysterious magical phenomenon.

[total1402]

I think it's the second time. As I recall, Dany's final chapter in AGOT employs a similar device, where GRRM briefly goes to Jorah's POV before returning to Dany and her newborn dragons. I think that's less about Victarion dying, and more about drawing a veil over a mysterious magical phenomenon.

Or she did actually die and was "reborn" as part of the AA prophecy. Using blood magic of course.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Or she did actually die and was "reborn" as part of the AA prophecy. Using blood magic of course.

Well, of course that can't be proved or disproved at the moment. The only thing that we do know is that GRRM chose to veil a powerful magical event. That doesn't mean that anybody involved died, any more than it means that they were visited by angels or turned into catfish.

[NickSnow]

He's already dead. He died in his cabin and he was brought back. It's the only time a POV actually exits the view of a character (outside his cabin door). So you already got your wish.

I thought that this was very interesting. When I was reading, I definitely took note of this. By having us follow the story through the eyes of various POVs, and then to suddenly brake the rule by exiting the character's eyes means that what was happening there was significant. I know this sounds super-cheesy, but perhaps Morquorro was somehow using magic to convert Vic to his side. Whatever the case may be, I think that Vic is not dead, but somehow possessed.

[Free Northman]

He's already dead. He died in his cabin and he was brought back. It's the only time a POV actually exits the view of a character (outside his cabin door). So you already got your wish.

I didn't notice that. Will definitely go and check that chapter out tonight!

[FanTasy]

The irony is in the scene in Dance where Moqorro tells Vic that R'hlorr has shown him in the flames the glory that awaits Victarrion. Vic was mightily pleased by those words.

Little does he know that this "glory" is most likely that he will be flamegrilled Dragonfood.

Yep, I think so. The chapter of the horn reminded me of that Victarion should be very, very distrustful.

He says so himself in AFFC: 'Euron's gifts are always poisonous ... '

Euron knows Victarion holds a grudge and will be a threat, so he sends him to fetch a woman who has dragons, with a horn that he believes summons dragons ... really :cool4:

[Tini]

I thought that this was very interesting. When I was reading, I definitely took note of this. By having us follow the story through the eyes of various POVs, and then to suddenly brake the rule by exiting the character's eyes means that what was happening there was significant. I know this sounds super-cheesy, but perhaps Morquorro was somehow using magic to convert Vic to his side. Whatever the case may be, I think that Vic is not dead, but somehow possessed.

I have the suspicion that high-ranking red priests like Moqorro and Melisandre are undead, to continue serving R'hllor. If Moqorro converted Vic to his side, would it be too much to ask that he did so by killing Victarion?

[surfKraken]

I don't think Victarion will be killed so easily. Even if the horn is treacherous(for Euron) he's got Moqoro with magic of his own. Plus his smoking hand is very interesting. It already is burned and has magic in it so he can use it in taming the dragons. And he is extremely difficult to kill to begin with.

I think his POV chapters will stop but he'll still be around. Probably as Dany's naval commander.

[Dana]

You're not much in luck when it comes to Darkstar. If I remember correctly, the author was quite surprised to find that he is the subject of much ridicule among a large segment of readers.

Ugh, he thought GEROLD (I am not calling him Darkstar) was cool?! ha!

[Dana]

I'm very intrigued by Victarion's black hand having magical powers vis-a-vis Cold Hands/ Benjen with his exposed black hands. Future use of dragon horn handling? Hmmm.

So we're settled in on Coldhands being Benjen? Aww...that sucks. How did he manage to become a good wight, I wonder?

[Satoris T Born]

I thought that this was very interesting. When I was reading, I definitely took note of this. By having us follow the story through the eyes of various POVs, and then to suddenly brake the rule by exiting the character's eyes means that what was happening there was significant. I know this sounds super-cheesy, but perhaps Morquorro was somehow using magic to convert Vic to his side. Whatever the case may be, I think that Vic is not dead, but somehow possessed.

I agree with the possession- I think the prophecy of the ten black tentacles we hear about, or the smiling corpse on the bow of a ship (house of the undying) both refer to Victarion under Moqorro's control. I think he is dead, resurrected, but the puppet of Moqorro. He's f*cked. Although it will be so fun to watch him push people around in MEreen with his new charred hand grandeur.

Also, I agree with the person who pointed out Euron's gifts are poison. It's already a goofy proposition to send someone across the world to woo a woman for someone else. But to also pass on this bad ass horn that is supposed to control dragons, the most powerful creature (or weapon) on the planet? No way. It could be Euron was just neutralizing his rivals for the throne, or more likely, just getting rid of his brother. I think he has a hint of the Joker in him- he just wants to watch the world burn. He has traveled the world, collected treasure and warlocks, been with exotic women, and seen the whole world. Does he really want the damp and dreary comforts of Pyke? And if he does, why is he spreading his Iron born all over (which is just making them weak and disassembled?

I think he's just looking to F the world....kind of like Bolton, but in a more active fashion.

[total1402]

OK, I'm embarrassed to say that on my few readings of these novels, I have not caught the instances where we clearly leave the POV and then return.

It happens in one of the ADwD Victarion chapters and in one of the AGoT Danaerys chapters?

Yeah mentioned earlier on. Both instances where either big magic is used or in which the POV character may have actually died.

[Tini]

I don't think Victarion will be killed so easily. Even if the horn is treacherous(for Euron) he's got Moqoro with magic of his own. Plus his smoking hand is very interesting. It already is burned and has magic in it so he can use it in taming the dragons. And he is extremely difficult to kill to begin with.

I think his POV chapters will stop but he'll still be around. Probably as Dany's naval commander.

Thereby proving that Dany is as evil as many readers already suspect? I hope that Dany has better sense than that (or that her advisors take care of Victarion for her before she even returns).

I really hope that his POV chapters will stop. Catelyn Stark's point of view chapters stopped when she died and was resurrected. It would be a point in favor of Victarion being dead already. But then I don't want Victarion around, alive or undead, so it doesn't really matter.

[Baitac]

This has not, I do believe, been established at all. If anything, most people believe that ADwD made it less likely than ever because Leaf says something to the effect of "he was killed long ago" in a way that makes it sound like more than few years.

GRRM: "no body, not dead" Of course Uncle Benjen has magical something or other. Those Starks, they got their magic going. :)

[Baitac]

So we're settled in on Coldhands being Benjen? Aww...that sucks. How did he manage to become a good wight, I wonder?

No, it hasn't been established, but the hand of one made me think of the hand of the other. I really do hope that Benjen is still there in some form, or that his essence is intact. :)

[Baitac]

OK, I'm embarrassed to say that on my few readings of these novels, I have not caught the instances where we clearly leave the POV and then return.

It happens in one of the ADwD Victarion chapters and in one of the AGoT Danaerys chapters?

It's hard enough to have to deal with the unreliable narrator and now we have to deal with the absent narrator. Me no like.

[MuchandMore]

Wonder if he was refering more to Benjin or Stannis with the whole "no body, not dead" thing. I couldn't give a shit about Benjin, but if Stannis died like a punk, and Ramsey did the deed, I'm going to have a hard time reading going forward. Far too much build up for Stannis to go out like that.

And someone asked but it was ignored.....did Martin give any indication of how far along with the book he is???? That is by FAR the most important question of all.