RoamingRonin Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And people are just going to let him? Sam is beyond his father's authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dena Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Well, Sam might fear his father, but if he leaves the Citadel without his chain to go back home he is a deserter and he knows what that means, so I think he will stay even if his father tries to take him home. Besides, I don't think one can just enter the Citadel with a bunch of soldiers to take an student away, at least not one who has cut all ties with his family and his past. Randyl has no power over Sam, so he can't make him leave the Citadel, not unless Sam goes with him (which I can't see happening) or he makes Sam go against his will, but then he is kidnapping a member of the Night's Watch. I don't think he can do that.Seeing Sam confront his father would be a great moment, but I don't think it will happen. I think Sam will realize his own worth and stop thinking he is a craven, but won't feel the need to tell his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxpey Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And people are just going to let him? Sam is beyond his father's authority.Is he really, though? Tarly is now one of the most powerful men in Westeros. Who is going to tell him he can't do what he wants to Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 And remember, he is a king's man, he is the hand, by a royal decree he can also make Sam ineligible to Night's Watch. What did Cersei promise Kettlelback brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbletian Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Sorry, where did I contradict myself?...Your contradiction came from you saying that you think Randyll will confront his son at the Citadel, but then you referenced the NW vows and their forsaking their previous families. I know what you were meaning, but it's an argument for and against.Don't get me wrong though, I would love to see Sam the Slayer to upgrade to level 2.0 and add a kin prefix to that title....Sam taking the black and forgeting about his parentage doesn't imply his father also accepted the vows and forgot about his son,Randyll was the one who forced Sam to take the black to begin with, because he didn't want him as a son, and wanted to get rid of him so that his younger son would be his heir (or so Sam conferred to us early on). So I'd say, yes, it does indeed imply that Randyll accepted the vows and what they meant, otherwise he wouldn't have threatened to kill his son, and he would have simply - killed his son.To clarify my meaning about the name, Sam joined the NW and gave up his family and his rights to anything Tarly when he said his vows, my point about losing the Tarly name was that he was a Tarly with no rights, now he is no one with no rights. There are several mentions about the Maesters and their lack of last names, read anything Lady Dustin says to Theon in ADwD; no one has to know where they came from, who their former allegiance was to, or who their family was - Aemon is a good point to bring up here (for and against) however. I do agree with your point that Randyll, now being on the council could possibly undo all that (again, Aemon), but to what effect? Just so he could punish his son, who he lawfully doesn't have anymore, and doesn't really have to acknowledge exists, and hardly anyone south of the watch will ever know existed? I would think he would try and keep it all quiet rather than bring it to the attention of everyone in court. In the eyes of the greater population of Westeros, it's a dead subject that never actually existed to begin with, why bring it up when he's already got what he wanted.I also don't think he is one of the most intelligent men in Westeros. A most capable administrator and military commander I would grant you. However, his inability to think in the abstract prevents me from placing him alongside the likes of Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin, etc.I admit, I've used the wrong phrasing. I was thinking about Brienne's encounter with him, where we see him dealing out some swift justice. He also sees Brienne's paper from Jaime, and against his own instincts and wishes, lets her go about her business. "Just" would have been a better word for what I was trying to say, and certainly smart where the law comes in; again, his forcing Sam to take the black is a sign of this. Though, I don't see him as unintelligent, but agreed, no where near the big player levels of those you mentioned. Perhaps after TWoW we may be able to reassess when we see more of him in KL and on the council; so far he has been a piece, but like has been mentioned, does hold a lot more power now.And people are just going to let him? Sam is beyond his father's authority.And like I've said, our brief encounters with Randyll have shown he respects authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Your contradiction came from you saying that you think Randyll will confront his son at the Citadel, but then you referenced the NW vows and their forsaking their previous families. I know what you were meaning, but it's an argument for and against.Don't get me wrong though, I would love to see Sam the Slayer to upgrade to level 2.0 and add a kin prefix to that title.I already said this thousand times, but nobody seems to be getting it, Sam taking the vows doesn't imply his father accept it (tl;dr I forgot who are my parents, but my parents didn't forget about me)Lets take Maester Aemon as reference, if I'm not wrong someone pursuit him to become a king, even though he had taken his vows, it means that Maester Aemon forgot about his family, but he chose to stand on vigil alas, the same (I forgot my family, but my family didn't forget about me)In ASoIaF it happens a lot of times, someone has to choose, whether fulfill your vows or forget them and suffer punishment, there is a extinct house which had a Lord Commander from it, and on the verge of its extinction they recalled this family member which was at the NW, they summoned him through raven, but that I don't know if he didn't respond or answered that he had no family, but only brothers and these brothers were as black as him. (I think it was House Hoarre) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbletian Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I already said this thousand times, but nobody seems to be getting it, Sam taking the vows doesn't imply his father accept it (tl;dr I forgot who are my parents, but my parents didn't forget about me)Lets take Maester Aemon as reference, if I'm not wrong someone pursuit him to become a king, even though he had taken his vows, it means that Maester Aemon forgot about his family, but he chose to stand on vigil alas, the same (I forgot my family, but my family didn't forget about me)In ASoIaF it happens a lot of times, someone has to choose, whether fulfill your vows or forget them and suffer punishment, there is a extinct house which had a Lord Commander from it, and on the verge of its extinction they recalled this family member which was at the NW, they summoned him through raven, but that I don't know if he didn't respond or answered that he had no family, but only brothers and these brothers were as black as him. (I think it was House Hoarre)I completely agree with the possibility of this notion, like I have also mentioned, but you seem to be ignoring the key point that Randyll forced Sam to take the black in the first place. Like I said above, this is direct indication that he (Randyll) respects and accepts what this means for Sam - that he will no longer be a part of his (Randyll's) family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Even if he doesn't like Sam becoming a maester, I don't think he can argue with Sam just following the Lord Commander's orders. The Night's Watch needs maesters too. I don't hate Randyll as much as some people on here so I'm sure he'd see the reasoning of sending Sam to the Citadel since it's kind of right up his intellectual/non-warrior alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I hope he doesnt get his ass kicked even though i dont like him he doesnt deserve to be abused. Also if sam stands up to his father it would be very out of charecter for him, George does not pander to his fans so no i dont think he is going to stand up to his father.He might. It calls to mind a scene in "Sometimes a Great Notion" by Ken Kesey in which little wimpy bookish brother is getting the snot beaten out of him by rugged big brother who wanted to kill him. But then he started fighting back (awkwardly) and big brother notes that it is hard to kill a man who insists on fighting back. Even in this mismatch. Brienne had to face him just for being in the territory so perhaps Sam will have to face him one way or the other. I think Sam will not be so intimidated and in any case he is under orders to not ACT intimidated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 And remember, he is a king's man, he is the hand, by a royal decree he can also make Sam ineligible to Night's Watch. What did Cersei promise Kettlelback brothers?Tarly is the Hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Lets take Maester Aemon as reference, if I'm not wrong someone pursuit him to become a king, even though he had taken his vows,You have this backwards. Aemon takes his Night's Watch vows after (and because) people try to make him King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 And remember, he is a king's man, he is the hand, by a royal decree he can also make Sam ineligible to Night's Watch. What did Cersei promise Kettlelback brothers?Tarly's not the King's hand, nor is there any evidence the Hand has the legal power to forcibly remove someone from the Night's Watch. In fact, evidence from the Gold Cloaks trying to take Gendry indicates they can't even take a trainee Night's Watchmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 NW doesnt forget their families. aemon is still emotional about his family's trials. Benjen visits Winterfell and is treated as family. Jeor's last thoughts are of Jorah his son.Tarly doesnt like a lot of things but obeys his sense of duty and his orders. He didnt like brienne at all but accepted her authority. He wont mess with Sam. He will be mollified by the fact that Sam has become his own man, will not be using the Tarly name conspicuously, and wouldnt want his old life as heir even if he could have it.Sam had a little panic attack over Leo Tyrell but isnt afraid of him anymore. He has more inner power than he knows.I'm pretty sure Sam has the run of the globe as long as he is in blacks and is on the NWs business.JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradosi Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Randyll doesn't give a damn about Sam anymore, he's moved on. Hell, he might even be proud of him for fathering a bastard.As such, Randyll will almost assuredly not "beat the shit out of Sam in the citadel". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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