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Southpaw89

The Red Wedding: Tywin's genius plan or cowardly way out? (spoilers)

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I'm assuming most people on here have read at least through A Storm of Swords but just in case, I did post SPOILER warning and that goes through book 3.

I just want to hear people's opinions on the tragedy that occured to the Starks and their bannermen at The Twins. As we know, Tywin Lannister schemed along with Lord Frey to turn his wedding into a massacre and eliminate Robb Stark and his bannermen (along with Catelyn of course). Do you guys consider it a genius plan on Tywin's part to have the Frey's lure Robb into a trap such as they did or was it a cowardly way of not having to defeat him in battle. Robb as a commander was winning many battles throughout northern Westeros and overall had the advantage over Tywin's Lannister armies so in order to stop the threat, he had to set up a trap at a wedding. So again, genius or cowardly of not going ahead and meeting and defeating Robb on the battlefield?

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A brilliant ploy for Tywin. You could even make the utilitarian moral argument that Tywin saved many of his own men's lives and that if he had ridden against Robb that many innocent wives and childrens would be without husband and fathers and that relatively few people died in the Red Wedding compared to the slaughter of an ongoing campaign.

But as far as Roose Bolton and Walder Frey were concerned, it was a straight-up scumbag, treacherous move. Their men are continuing being slaughtered, by the way.

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Idiotic for all of them.

It gives their enemies a common cause: destroy the freys and the ones who protect them(the lannisters)

Again, I say it was not as destructive a move for the Lannisters as it was for the Boltons/Freys. The North already hated the Lannisters and were united against them, so they had nothing to lose.

And as an outcome, the North is now divided and scattered, and cannot fight against the Lannisters en masse. Good move for Tywin.

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The red wedding was a brilliant act of cowardice.

The north is not scattered and divided just at a nadir point. they shall rise again for winter is coming and the north remembers.

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While it certainly was treacherous, I am not sure I can call it cowardly. Lord Tywin may have been many things, but a coward is not one of them. However, I also can't help but wonder if maybe, just maybe, Lord Tywin became involved in the idea of the Red Wedding because he started to think that he would not be able to defeat Robb in battle. If so, maybe there was just a little "cowardice" involved with the plan.

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Walder Frey came up with the plan, didn't he? And then he proposed it to Tywin? I don't think it was any "genius" of Tywin, if you can even call it that...It was definitely cowardly, though. There's nothing honourable about defeating an enemy like that.

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it wasnt really his plan , he just sanctioned it by promising not to take action against them. It was Roose Bolton and Walder Frey who planned it. From one perspective though, that was a plus, the North is defeated with not less lasting emnity to House Lannister than if they'd been defeated in the field, so if the starks and tullys or the north and riverlands seek vengeance it wont come back to him

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You don't break the laws of hospitality. Even Harma Dogshead knew that. But it did work out brilliantly for Tywin, until his unfortunate incident on the privy. As the others have said, The North Remembers, and the Freys and the Boltons have dug themselves into a mass grave.

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Again, I say it was not as destructive a move for the Lannisters as it was for the Boltons/Freys. The North already hated the Lannisters and were united against them, so they had nothing to lose.

And as an outcome, the North is now divided and scattered, and cannot fight against the Lannisters en masse. Good move for Tywin.

I would have been a good move it the north were the only opponent. shame it isn't. Stannis was alive when this happened and had asha come out of top of the kings moot

Tywin would have in in direst trouble

Tywin adapted and used his other tools when open-field warfare wasn't going well for him. All's fair in war. Which is why war is unpopular with people who like fair play.

the answer is a yes and No. the trick is knowing the enemy who doesn't play fair

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Its genius if you can seal the deal (total war win, subjugation of westeros), otherwise it will spell longterm doom. Im betting on doom.

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