Khal Pono Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Really? How did Joff die again?That's a funny point! I think the Queen of Thorns is now accursed in the eyes of Gods and Men!That is--if anyone can figure out she (and others, of course) was behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Really? How did Joff die again?Yeah, but the Tyrells made sure that they were clear of the blame of Joffrey's death, by getting not one but two scapegoats. Tyrion and Sansa were blamed for the Purple Wedding, and no one (save Cersei) suspects the Tyrells of anything since Margaery was at "risk" of drinking the wine and getting poisoned as well...Whereas the Red Wedding - As the Blackfish said, it stinks of Tywin Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taipan Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yeah, but the Tyrells made sure that they were clear of the blame of Joffrey's death, by getting not one but two scapegoats. Tyrion and Sansa were blamed for the Purple Wedding, and no one (save Cersei) suspects the Tyrells of anything since Margaery was at "risk" of drinking the wine and getting poisoned as well...Whereas the Red Wedding - As the Blackfish said, it stinks of Tywin Lannister.My point was about breaking the law of hospitality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Bad call for the Freys. They were going to be Lords of the Riverlands and they threw it away during their unholy revange. The North remembers and the Freys are now cursed by everyone.Good call for Tywin. Didn't get his hands dirty, and he won the warFantastic call for Roose. Ramsay would have been executed for the Hornwood lands and for what he did in Winterfell is so horrific it would have destroyed the Bolton name. Roose found a way for insted of the Bolton name to die it became the Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My point was about breaking the law of hospitality.It's not like breaking the "laws" of hospitality is inherently a bad thing to do. It's more that such traditions are highly valued, and any house that breaks them openly would be mistrusted everywhere, which is what happens to the Freys after the Wedding. The Freys flaunt the fact that they killed Robb while breaking the laws. The Tyrells gave no hint that they broke them, which makes them more trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taipan Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It's not like breaking the "laws" of hospitality is inherently a bad thing to do. It's more that such traditions are highly valued, and any house that breaks them openly would be mistrusted everywhere, which is what happens to the Freys after the Wedding. The Freys flaunt the fact that they killed Robb while breaking the laws. The Tyrells gave no hint that they broke them, which makes them more trusted.My view is that all the houses are equally mistrusted except maybe the Starks. Does anyone really trust the Lannisters, Tyrells, Tarqs etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 cowardice of course and all invovled just made it worse that no house will want to deal with them in the future. It could have been a great political strategy for tywin but not for the freys and boltons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taipan Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 cowardice of course and all invovled just made it worse that no house will want to deal with them in the future. It could have been a great political strategy for tywin but not for the freys and boltonsDid anyone particularly want to treat with the Freys or Boltons before the RW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Bad call for the Freys. They were going to be Lords of the Riverlands and they threw it away during their unholy revange. The North remembers and the Freys are now cursed by everyone.Good call for Tywin. Didn't get his hands dirty, and he won the warfun part is it didn't stannis still stands the lannister army is melting in the riverlands and the reach is under attack of the iron born have I mentioned that the north didn't even pull out all of their troops (the mountain clans are are still unbloodied, no crannogmen or skagosi and of manderly's numbers were among robb's army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Tywin`s geniousity has been seen during Sack of KL, he is not genius, he`s just a cruel man, smart yes, but with wicked sense of paying the debts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If Tywin wasn't in a position to beat Robb in the field as you state, then the Red Wedding was his only option. You can't expect him to pass up on an opportunity to put the rebellion to an end just because his plan didn't involve actual battle. Really, the cowardly thing to do would have been to give up.That said, Tywin still could have defeated Robb in the field, especially with the added forces of the Tyrells. But, as already mentioned, the Red Wedding probably saved thousands of lives. I think it's more honorable to sacrifice your reputation to save lives than stand by just to maintain your "honor."And the North was going to despise the Lannisters no matter what, so it's ridiculous to say it was a bad move because it pissed them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My view is that all the houses are equally mistrusted except maybe the Starks.Does anyone really trust the Lannisters, Tyrells, Tarqs etc?Not all are equally mistrusted. They're all mistrusted to some degree, but there are different levels. The Freys (and perhaps the Boltons) are the lowest of the low at this point. No one would even think of trusting them again, even to a small extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Its genius if you can seal the deal (total war win, subjugation of westeros), otherwise it will spell longterm doom. Im betting on doom.This.The North Remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 But, as already mentioned, the Red Wedding probably saved thousands of lives. I think it's more honorable to sacrifice your reputation to save lives than stand by just to maintain your "honor."Tywin didn't care one bit for the smallfolk. Have you forgotten that he raided the Riverlands and broke the King's Peace, just because Tyrion got kidnapped? In other words, he set the Mountain on a group of innocent unprotected civilians just because of his pride. Tywin is not some sort of champion for the little people, if that's what you think he is. It was just his "excuse" for going through with the Red Wedding in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned's Epic Beard Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It was a genius plan if you look it as a short term solution. Tywin was able to eliminate the threat without having a single Lannister involved.But if you look at its impact on the future of three houses (Lannisters, Boltons and Freys), it warns of doom. The North remembers the enemies Robb was fighting against when he was perished. I literally got chills when wyman manderly said that "time for mummer's farce is almost over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowNothing. Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I actually don't think it was one of Tywins best plans. Think about it, short term it was a great plan to rid himself of a rebel, long term - stayed at Kings Landing too long afterward, also lost many men and continues to do so in the Riverlands, the Lannister army is now becoming one of the most scattered, and to think Robb might have sued for Peace later on down the line. Could have let the Tyrells deal with Stannis themselves and they would have been weakened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If Tywin wasn't in a position to beat Robb in the field as you state, then the Red Wedding was his only option. You can't expect him to pass up on an opportunity to put the rebellion to an end just because his plan didn't involve actual battle. Really, the cowardly thing to do would have been to give up.That said, Tywin still could have defeated Robb in the field, especially with the added forces of the Tyrells. But, as already mentioned, the Red Wedding probably saved thousands of lives. I think it's more honorable to sacrifice your reputation to save lives than stand by just to maintain your "honor."And the North was going to despise the Lannisters no matter what, so it's ridiculous to say it was a bad move because it pissed them off.Despising Lannisters, alright. But baking Freys in pies and serving them to their kin? And make no mistake, that's exactly the thing the Northmen will do to the Lannisters given the tiniest sliver of a chance.The Red Wedding turned a neat little war into a bloodfeud on a genocidal level.Not all are equally mistrusted. They're all mistrusted to some degree, but there are different levels. The Freys (and perhaps the Boltons) are the lowest of the low at this point. No one would even think of trusting them again, even to a small extent.Think of trusting them?! The Freys and Boltons will find a knife in their back or an axe in their face anychance anybody got. And I include Vale, Dorne, Crownlands, Reach, Iron Islands and Westerlands in "anybody", as well as the Faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter is cumming Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 For Tywin it was a genius plan. He was already known for being cold and shrewed but also the one of the realms best politicians and commanders and he also was the head of the most powerful family in westeros. However it was cowardly and also stupid by The boltons and Freys. Robb had not lost a battle and there was no telling when he would, it wasn't like before the red wedding the starks were being crushed in the war. Also neither of those houses is nearly as powerful as the Lannisters to they made a lot of enemies like the Manderleys and the dustyns to name two. When Stannis finally reaches Winterfell The Manderlys are just waiting to attack the Boltons and Freys that are there mainly because of the red wedding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBean Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Think of trusting them?! The Freys and Boltons will find a knife in their back or an axe in their face anychance anybody got. And I include Vale, Dorne, Crownlands, Reach, Iron Islands and Westerlands in "anybody", as well as the Faith!Don't forget UnCat! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Don't forget UnCat! :)Oh, I named just those who have no personal reason, just good old disgust. Uncat, the Riverlands and the North aren't on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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