Darth Rivers Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 There are no politicians in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Perhaps, however I think that at the time Balon made his decesion the war in the South looks like its going to do alot of bloody damage. Stannis in Dragonstone, Renly and Highgarden were massing together, Tywin confronting Robb Stark. So yes Balon's main goal is independence from the Iron Throne. Given that the South is a clusterfuck of competing Kings the West may not seem the best choice for securing independence. If Balon takes the Westerlands and its significant gold mines and wealth of Casterly Rock it seems unlikely that any contender for the Iron Throne would allow the Ironborn to control the West unchallenged particularly if the Lannisters prevail in the South. However, by taking the North, and securing Moat Cailin it is possible that after the War when all is said and done and armies extinguished the occupant of the Iron Throne may not have the resources for a full expedition North.In my opinion in the long run it seems more likely that the Southron lords would be more willing to make peace with Balon after he secured the North than they would if he had seized the Westerlands.So, they would be happy to let Balon have half of the realm and let him reave and rape in the other half? Really?Again, this is short-sighted, to say the least: the Iron Islands only chance of independence is if the Iron Throne falls and the realm is not united anymore. The only one playing for it was Robb. There is no other scenario in which they remain independent. As the Reader puts it, if they want land, they have to bend the knee to Tywin or Stannis.You also haven't adressed the fact that Robb didn't need to go North to defeat the Iron Islands, since his men there by far outnumber the Iron Islands troops. Without Bolton's treachery, they would have been defeated easily, and Balon's children and brother would end up as hostages.Also, Balon wasn't supposed to occupy the Westerlands permanently: take Fair Isle and sack Lannisport and the gold mines was the idea, and would make all the lords in the area filthy rich. There's nothing to be sacked in the North- they are much poorer, and all the wealth is in the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'd say Stannis is more a reluctant politician than a bad one. He clearly despises politics and tries to avoid it as much as possible, preffering that people submit to his superior claim. But when he's forced into using politics, mainly in the north, he seems pretty adept. He gets along relatively well with Jon and the Wildlings, wins over the mountain clans, and it looks like he's going to play the Boltons pretty hard to take Winterfell with the Manderlys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsaint Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 1. Cersei- Her Kingdom has imploded on itself.2. Balon - Just plain stupid3. Dany- Lets lock my dragons up and stunt their growth while I day dream about Daario all day. Lets not kill the elite slave masters. This list could go on forever.Ned was actually a very good politician. He ruled the north nearly all of his life without any problems. He was just too honorable for the south, and still played a decent game. Cersei should have been arrested for treason the second she tore up Roberts letter with the kings own seal. Ned was literally betrayed by almost everyone around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcaponesgunps3 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 What about quentyn martell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 What blunders? Elaborate?his blunders with tarly: not giving brightwater to melessa florent randyll wife, always taking this guys glory and giving him ZERO credithis blunder with hightower: hightower gave him all the troops he could give and oldtown is in Danger mace tells garlan and willas to tell leyton : your problem bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashagreyjoys Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler of House Durden Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 No one denies Stannis has done a miracle by survivng so far, but he is man no one listens or cares about, I know it isn`t completely true, but he is strong and not lovable. Polliticans are whores, they adore to be loved and needed and that`s not case with Stannis. As for Cersei, one book of stupidities she made was enough for me. and of course, I forgot Robb StarkI would not agree with this - what you say might be true for modern democracies, where politicians need peoples' support. In the political context of Westeros being loved is rather "nice to have" than a necessity for success in politics. Just think of Tywin Lannister (who I think nobody would put on the list of "worst politicians") whose redeeming quality is not exactly being popular :)Oh, and on topic: I agree with the user "Winterfell is burning" and don't even see a close second to Balon Greyjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimadick Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 So many choices here.1. Cersei Lannister. She alienates all her supporters in a way only comparable to Jon Snow. She turns the Iron Bank of Braavos into an active opponent. Which are awful stuff. But she wins the prize by recreating the Faith Militant. Resurrecting a traditional enemy of the Iron Throne and creating a potentially hostile military force within her own seat of power. 2. Balon Greyjoy. When you have the smallest military force in Westeros you need allies. You don't declare war to all other factions simultaneously, you don't act as if your seat of power is unreachable (it isn't), and would it kill you to have hired eyes and ears around the courts of your enemies?3. Doran Martell. Congratulations. Your heir believes you intend to disinherit her and is ready to rebel, you send your second-in-line on a suicide mission requiring skills the boy doesn't have, you failed to ensure the safety of the girl betrothed to your third-in-line-heir, risking the marriage and provoking the Iron Throne, you had your impulsive brother killed in a duel, your nieces want to rebell, and most of Dorne considers you a weak leader. Your plans have led Dorne to the brink of a civil war. Meanwhile your sworn enemies lives and die without reserving a second thought for you. You are irrelevant as an enemy and dangerous as an ally. 4. Ramsay Bolton. Your enemies despise you, your allies distrust you and some are disgusted by you. And you forgot a significant rule: "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you." You seriously broke your word, executed any single man who surrendered to you, and then advertised the deed? Your next opponents will fight to the death, and your allies will never believe your promises . Good luck with that. 5. Robb Stark. Do you even know the definition of hostage? Did you bother to check what was the purpose of keeping Theon in Winterfell? Are you even aware how much Theon knows about Winterfell and its defenses. Do you remember why Walder Frey supports you?: because he wants a royal descendant you dolt. Edmure is too little, too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBrightflame Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sweetrobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetrarch42 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 No one denies Stannis has done a miracle by survivng so far, but he is man no one listens or cares about, I know it isn`t completely true, but he is strong and not lovable. Polliticans are whores, they adore to be loved and needed and that`s not case with Stannis. As for Cersei, one book of stupidities she made was enough for me. and of course, I forgot Robb StarkNobody likes Tywin yet he seems to have been left off all the previous lists. He rules via wealth and fear, not adoaration.Stannis and Tywin seem to take a pretty similar stance as well as politics go anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irri's Bear Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Varys is the sole politician of the 7 Kingdoms, the only one to care about the public good, or so he saysYou forget Littlefinger.Also I think Dany is one of the worst politicians out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernest Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Cersei is absolutely the worst politician in Westeros. Her paranoia over the younger and more beautiful queen added to her lust for power and other bad qualities lead her to actively trying to destroy the only thing (Lannister-Tyrell alliance) that is keeping "her" kingdom together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The more I think about it the more it seems to me that Tywin's actions at GOT are almost Cersei-esque. He enters a war which would have brought him against three kingdoms, if not for events he could not have known about and in danger of entering a pissing contest with Robert Baratheon. He couldn't discount Lysa like that, she had the Blackfish at her command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Balon is pretty bad... Yep, let's attack the North rather than going after Lannisport and the wealth of Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You forget Littlefinger.that is a desaster waiting to happen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingHodor Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Joffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irri's Bear Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 that is a desaster waiting to happen!!!Are you having a laugh?! Lord of Harrenhal, Regent over the Vale, The Fingers, can make a stag turn into a dragon at will, could end up having his fingers (see what i did ;) ) involved in the north....The man is a legend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcaponesgunps3 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Tyrion had a short reign @ kings hand...get it short reign and he only ever got things by the skin of his nose :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Ramsay Bolton. Your enemies despise you, your allies distrust you and some are disgusted by you. And you forgot a significant rule: "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you." You seriously broke your word, executed any single man who surrendered to you, and then advertised the deed? Your next opponents will fight to the death, and your allies will never believe your promises . Good luck with that.Ramsey Bolton is more of a top-tier serial killer than a politician - no more a game-player than Ser Gregor Clegane was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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