brzibrzi Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 What's funny about it, it makes sense to me?And this is the general forum section, if anyone reads a thread in this section, without reading all the books, then there is nothing you can do, they will be spoiled, but there is no requirement for you to add a spoiler tag here.valyrian weapons are supposed to be something ancient, and knowledge about their forging is supposed to be lost forever. i know forging is not the same as reforging but still it doesn't sitt well with me. sorcery across the world is more potent now that there are dragons around but tobho mott used some random spells to reforge ice and it just doesn't feel like something that would work. it would be more plausible if the two new swords were inferior in quality to the sword they were forged from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Well, I dont think dragonsteel is the same as Special Other Sword Ice - as someone pointed out - it would be silly to expect the Others to be susceptible to their own swords.Does anyone recall if Dawn is Valyrian Steel - I think I have the name of the sword correct - I am referring to the sword made from a meteorite (presumably of the iron type) - or is meteorite iron already fiery enough to be raw material for Valyrian-type steel?Oop I see there is a thread on this already http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/67134-dawn-vs-valyrian-steel/page__p__3279870__hl__dragonsteel#entry3279870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yep.. The Iron Throne will be melted down to fight the Others. That was what I've been thinking since AFFC.Very cool scene.. Jon ordering the Iron Throne melted down after he takes the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakenhelm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think its a cool theory. So the "Iron" in Iron Throne is a misnomer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Killdragon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'd always figured it was forged in dragon flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost714 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 valyrian weapons are supposed to be something ancient, and knowledge about their forging is supposed to be lost forever. i know forging is not the same as reforging but still it doesn't sitt well with me. sorcery across the world is more potent now that there are dragons around but tobho mott used some random spells to reforge ice and it just doesn't feel like something that would work. it would be more plausible if the two new swords were inferior in quality to the sword they were forged from.The ability to work with existent Valyrian Steel seems very possible to me, especially now that magic is back. The hard thing is actually creating new Valyrian Steel, that's what was lost with the Doom of Valyria.About the Iron Throne theory, why would anybody need to use it to make swords, when Valyrian Steel was made with dragon flame? Not to mention, Valyrian Steel also has spells foged into it, so naturally it would be superior to anything made from the Iron Throne, which was just melted down by dragon flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Customs from conquered civilizations are renamed all the time. Even their gods, so why would a method like Valyrian Steel be different? Valyrians fancied themselves the masters of dragons, it only makes since that they'd rename a technique to suit them. We already know that many of the house blades predate Valyria as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yep.. The Iron Throne will be melted down to fight the Others. That was what I've been thinking since AFFC.Very cool scene.. Jon ordering the Iron Throne melted down after he takes the city.If that happens I will stop reading these series on the spot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost714 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Customs from conquered civilizations are renamed all the time. Even their gods, so why would a method like Valyrian Steel be different? Valyrians fancied themselves the masters of dragons, it only makes since that they'd rename a technique to suit them. We already know that many of the house blades predate Valyria as it is.Actually, a lot of the House Blades made from Valyrian Steel that we know of, have only been in those House's for around 5 hundred years. Some examples being, Ice, Longclaw, and Heartsbane, and we know that Dark Sister and Blackfyre were brought over with the Targaryen's during the Conquest. So we know that a lot of the House's got their ancestral Blades about a hundred years before the Doom of Valyria, not the existence of Valyria. I do partly agree with you though. I believe the Valyrians found the records, either through conquest or not, of how the Last hero made Lightbringer. I believe they copied the Last Hero's method, and then added their own improvements on it. Like using dragon flame, and Valyrian spells. But I do not think in any way, that it is possible for people in Westeros to have had Valyrian Steel before the time of Valyria. The Last Hero might have made the first blade resembling Valyrian Steel, and the Valyrians might have improved on that, but the Valyrian Steel swords in Westeros definitely came from Valyria, most likely not to long before the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I had a theory posted to another thread that could explain the effectiveness of dragonsteel on the Others. All spells and magic aside, though I'm sure that to some extent they were necessary to forge such a blade, what if dragonsteel is just steel infused with obsidian. We know that obsidian, or dragonglass, is a very effective material against the white walkers. If you were to crush up obsidian into very fines shards or even powder and then fold it into a steel sword during the forging.... The sword would tend to take on a black or smoky color depending on the ratio of obsidian to steel. Still not sure if valyrian steel = dragonsteel.ETA - spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why? I think that the Iron Throne will be destroyed and having one of the main characters order it destroyed to fight the Others. You could even have Tyrion or someone make a snarky comment about a war for no reason when it gets melted down. The only thing I'd change is that it is perhaps Dany instead of Jon; however, I think that this would be to a 180 in her motivations. That's why I'm thinking it is Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I had a theory posted to another thread that could explain the effectiveness of dragonsteel on the Others. All spells and magic aside, though I'm sure that to some extent they were necessary to forge such a blade, what if dragonsteel is just steel infused with obsidian. We know that obsidian, or dragonglass, is a very effective material against the white walkers. If you were to crush up obsidian into very fines shards or even powder and then fold it into a steel sword during the forging.... The sword would tend to take on a black or smoky color depending on the ratio of obsidian to steel. Still not sure if valyrian steel = dragonsteel.ETA - spellingObsidian is very, very fragile. I'm not sure how it could be effective in a traditional weapon. We do know that Dragonstone is covered in the stuff though, so hopefully they'll be able to get some. Although that seems unlikely now that Loras broke the siege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Obsidian is very, very fragile. I'm not sure how it could be effective in a traditional weapon. We do know that Dragonstone is covered in the stuff though, so hopefully they'll be able to get some. Although that seems unlikely now that Loras broke the siege.True. The ration of obsidian to steel would need to be very low so I'm speculating that such an alloy would be approxiamately 98% steel with "ripples" of obsidian. Really just folding glass dust into the steel to get the Other killing properties, not to try to change it's structural properties. Dragonstone seems a likely place to get some dragonglass but maybe top far away. I want to know where the CotF got their stash from. They were said to trade with NW often so they must have had a ready supply. Maybe Hodor/Brandor will stumble upon some deep in the caves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I suppose that could work, but it'd be odd to introduce something like this so far into the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why? I think that the Iron Throne will be destroyed and having one of the main characters order it destroyed to fight the Others. You could even have Tyrion or someone make a snarky comment about a war for no reason when it gets melted down. The only thing I'd change is that it is perhaps Dany instead of Jon; however, I think that this would be to a 180 in her motivations. That's why I'm thinking it is Jon.For starters I don't like the idea of the Iron Throne being destroyed, I suppose I could live with it if it comes to that but not at the hands of Jon Snow of all people.Second I am not really interested in the Others and to see their story overshadow the battle for the throne would be a major disappointment for me.Combine these two and you would understant why I would not be that interested in the story anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 1. Jon would be the most likely candidate.. He has the motivation to do so and is probably the legitimate king. I'm assuming that it would be either him or Dany and it just makes more sense in terms of motivation for him to be the one.2. I think that you are unfortunately going to be disappointed. The main storyline is about the Others and who gets the Iron Throne is distracting everyone from the real threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You may very well be right and if I loose interest in the story I am always free to stop reading the books.If it comes to that I still won't count reading them as a waste of time because it was amusing for the time, still I remain optimistic to the end, believing that the story will somehow go my way.In the end time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 My new theory on the "dragonsteel" mentioned in one of the ancient manuscripts Sam was reading.It's not Valyrian Steel, the Other's swords or anything like that.I think that it's actually steel that was forged or hardened by dragons.Though with the 2000 years instead of 6000 theory the Freehold existed alongside the Long Night, even if it didn't I have this SSM. Dragons+Wargs+Steel/Bronze/Something=Dragonsteel.I like this! I really do! I'm still under the assumption that Dragonsteel=Dragon, but I'm taking this into consideration. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost714 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You may very well be right and if I loose interest in the story I am always free to stop reading the books.If it comes to that I still won't count reading them as a waste of time because it was amusing for the time, still I remain optimistic to the end, believing that the story will somehow go my way.In the end time will tell.I am with you on this. I think having the Iron Throne melted down for weapons to kill the Others is a terrible idea. Why would it even work?And if that's the case, couldn't Dany just have her Dragon's blow fire on some scrap metal, and then they could take that, and melt it down for weapons? That just seems terribly anticlimactic. With how much people revere Valyrian Steel throughout the books, I would much rather dragonsteel be Valyrian Steel. And if it's not, I would rather it be anything else, besides melting down the Iron Throne. Not because I love the Iron Throne and what it "stands for", but because it just seems silly to me. The Iron Throne is just a bunch of iron swords of Conquered foes, melted into a Throne, that does not seem "special" enough to kill the Others, but Valyrian Steel does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think I may have misread the theory. I took from it that dragons had actually forged/created dragonsteel...meaning it was made from something other than the swords and daggers we have seen thus far in the series. If the theory is simply stating that dragons blew fire on 'steel' to create dragonsteel, I must completely disagree. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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