From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa VII

[Lyanna Stark]

But isn't using sex as a weapon Cersei's approach? I think if and when Sansa decides to have sex, she will not do so for a tool but rather because she wants to. But, her manners, flattery, empathy, and compassion are her weapons, I completely agree with you. I think those are the tools that she will use as she moves to a player role.

:agree:

Cersei can also work as a cautionary tale here since she showed us that using sex as a weapon is not guaranteed to succeed, neither is it without risk. He scene with Kettleblack is also really urrrgh :ack: and it feels more like he is using her than she is using him to get ahead. I'd be surprised if Sansa turns into some sort of Femme Fatale in that sense.

It also would be a bit of a strange development since her journey so far has been about discovering the limitations of her role in society and about gaining agency to create a space for herself where she can have a chance at happiness on her own terms.

Normally, I'd say that Femme Fatale characters are cynics with a rather cruel outlook and an almost nihilistic world view (Cersei has a touch of the Femme Fatale to her, and she is also deeply cynical and bitter). It would be tragic indeed if this was Sansa's future, since it would also prevent her from using her strengths: compassion, kindness, inspiration.

Using sex to get ahead also means that Sansa needs to disconnect sex and love completely for it to succeed, and despite what she has been through I doubt she will be able to easily do this.

[Mladen]

But isn't using sex as a weapon Cersei's approach? I think if and when Sansa decides to have sex, she will not do so for a tool but rather because she wants to. But, her manners, flattery, empathy, and compassion are her weapons, I completely agree with you. I think those are the tools that she will use as she moves to a player role.

Yes, it is...And we see innocent pawn, but when you look a really smart players, they use entire arsenal...Every weapon is allowed, and one of Cersei`s greatest flaws is that she doesn`t understand this. This entire topic is dedicated to Sansa becoming player...And to become that, in order to do what must be done when you want to win your enemies, there has to be no scrupuls around. I sincerely hope she will find the way other women of power haven`t, and become Queen, and get married for love.I mean, I want her to succeed where Cersei couldn`t, having a man who loves you and respects you, man who shares burden of ruling with you. But, those are just hopes. For now, she has to prepared. And the best way to do so is to explore all the options...

[brashcandy]

@Kittykat and Lyanna

Remember when we also noted a while back that we don't see Sansa thinking very much about her virginity as a prize or something that goes hand in hand with a claim? This doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't aware of the importance of it (she comments on Mya not being a maid afterall), but there does seem to be a strange absence of conscious thoughts on this given that she's a highborn girl. Further, we know she is quick to bring up her maiden and marriage status when she's being threatened with something she doesn't want: the attempted rape by Marillion, or the marriage plots by Petyr and Lysa. However, look at the scene where Sweetrobin kisses her. Tyrion never appears, and she doesn't seem to consider it a good thing in hindsight that Sandor only left her with a bloody cloak.

[Lyanna Stark]

Yes, it is...And we see innocent pawn, but when you look a really smart players, they use entire arsenal...Every weapon is allowed, and one of Cersei`s greatest flaws is that she doesn`t understand this.

Do they though? The best players seem to use their strengths. Varys uses his huge amount of information, LF his info and his money, Tyrion his clever brain, the QoT her connections and her understanding of people's motivations etc. etc. I can't see Tyrion or the QoT using sex, for instance.

Cersei fails partly because she doesn't understand how people work. Had she been more empathic or just bothered with understanding people, she probably would have been a far more formidable player. Also, her willingness to use every weapon seems to have backfired on her quite badly.

There's also the implication for Sansa's character to consider. Would it really be good for Sansa the person to become a ruthless player who'd use any weapon to get ahead? That means she'd turn into a female LF, and I don't think anyone would like that.

@Kittykat and Lyanna

Remember when we also noted a while back that we don't see Sansa thinking very much about her virginity as a prize or something that goes hand in hand with a claim? This doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't aware of the importance of it (she comments on Mya not being a maid afterall), but there does seem to be a strange absence of conscious thoughts on this given that she's a highborn girl. Further, we know she is quick to bring up her maiden and marriage status when she's being threatened with something she doesn't want: the attempted rape by Marillion, or the marriage plots by Petyr and Lysa. However, look at the scene where Sweetrobin kisses her. Tyrion never appears, and she doesn't seem to consider it a good thing in hindsight that Sandor only left her with a bloody cloak.

Good point.

We also have her thinking that Cat gave her maidenhead to LF out of love, and she does not seem to think the worse of Cat for it.

I'd say she is conscious of the value, but then we also have Cat marrying Ned while supposedly having previously shagged LF, so clearly it's not the end all and be all. There's also another facet to this: people only consider Mya "used goods" because it came out. If nobody knows, well, then things will stand a bit differently? Throughout, we see that appearances matter. f!Arya gets presented as Arya and people believe it because it's presented as a fact. Margaery might not be a virgin, but who is to say that she is not? She's presented as such and may yet be let off by the Faith, regardless of her real status. WE have f!Aegon being presented as the real Aegon.

People see what they want to see as long as it's presented well enough.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

:agree:

Cersei can also work as a cautionary tale here since she showed us that using sex as a weapon is not guaranteed to succeed, neither is it without risk. He scene with Kettleblack is also really urrrgh :ack: and it feels more like he is using her than she is using him to get ahead. I'd be surprised if Sansa turns into some sort of Femme Fatale in that sense.

It also would be a bit of a strange development since her journey so far has been about discovering the limitations of her role in society and about gaining agency to create a space for herself where she can have a chance at happiness on her own terms.

Normally, I'd say that Femme Fatale characters are cynics with a rather cruel outlook and an almost nihilistic world view (Cersei has a touch of the Femme Fatale to her, and she is also deeply cynical and bitter). It would be tragic indeed if this was Sansa's future, since it would also prevent her from using her strengths: compassion, kindness, inspiration.

Using sex to get ahead also means that Sansa needs to disconnect sex and love completely for it to succeed, and despite what she has been through I doubt she will be able to easily do this.

Cersei not only has sex with all the wrong people (starting with her brother!) she is willing to have sex with people she doesn't find attractive in order to get what she wants (she's willing to have sex with Taena but she is obviously repulsed). She truly loves Jaime but talk about loving the wrong person - someone who is unacceptable in a way that merely "not being a knight" or "being lowborn" is not. But she's still using him most of the time (getting him to join the Kingsguard and so on). Cersei finds little joy or connection in the sex act, just personal gain. She's not much different than an actual prostitute.

Besides, sex as a weapon has a limited shelf life and Cersei is no spring chicken anymore, as was graphically revealed in her walk of shame. Nice clothes can cover up a lot, but already in AFFC she's complaining that the stupid washerwomen shrunk her clothes (yeah right!). Finally, sex as a weapon isn't going to work on many men who aren't so easily led around by their "little heads." Cersei's personality and paranoia work against her being attractive enough - Queen or not a lot of men are going to run from the drunk woman in the tinfoil hat.

We see Sansa outright refusing to have sex with men she considers repulsive even when it could be an advantage to her (like with Tyrion - he's her husband). That's the opposite of someone using sex for gain. I see her as someone who will sleep with a man on her own terms and when she wants to (unless she's forced :crying: ). I don't know that she'll wait until marriage but I think she wants true love or at least a strong bond of attraction and affection.

I can see her using her personal attractiveness and charm, which is different than using sex per se. Attractive people do have it easier when it comes to being influential. I think her attractiveness will smooth her path in life and attract followers. I can see her playing up a Beautiful Mother type of image - which Dany is also cultivating. (It will be interesting if those two ever meet...)

[Monica21]

Monica, can I start with saying that I love your Darcy avatar! :)

Thank you! Colin Firth will always be Darcy to me. :)

Regarding the replacement of Sandor as erotic or not, I would have agreed with you on my first read through, more or less, but on closer examination it does look like there is more to it than that. As it often is with GRRM, we may have to dig a bit in other POV's or other chapters to get the full meaning.

I think everyone remembers Sandor's drunken comment on the Serptentine Steps when he says "One day I'll have a song from you, whether you will it or not" and Sansa's reply "I'll sing it to you gladly".

Fast forward to Sansa's marriage to Tyrion: This is how Sansa describes Tyrion whom she later substitutes in what seems to be this very same situation.

Like in many of Sansa's chapters it can be useful to note things like body language, what is left unsaid and also where people are positioned. So here we have a stark naked and aroused Tyrion close enough to Sansa to fondle her breast.

Then if we move on to Petyr's and Lysa's wedding, where we have Sansa outside pondering her own marriage, how it wouldn't have been so bad with the bedding if it had been for a man she loved with friends who loved them both, we have Lysa screaming upstairs and then Marillion comes along "helpfully" and adds the following little gems:

Then about two seconds later, Lothor Brune shows up and scares off Marillion, and Sansa mistakes him for Sandor. She says of Lothor's voice

Now lastly, we have Sansa substituting Tyrion in her dream with Sandor. I think judging from the above we can also surmise that she knows full well what a Song is a metaphor for, too, based on Marillion's comments.

One thing to keep in mind here is to go back and look at the Tyrion scene and what Sansa is actually substituting, which is an aroused naked guy, and then the song metaphor after Sansa has just heard Lysa screaming the house down, supposedly from sexual pleasure, and Marillion promising her that he'll have her singing even louder.

I always got the second reference (the song), but it's only when you really go back to the Tyrion wedding scene and combine the two you go "What is this I don't even..."

Adding the two together makes it difficult to see it as anything else than eroticising***.

WRT the Tyrion scene, do you think she shuddered out of desire, because I read it as shuddering from a combination of fear and revulsion.

I have to be honest, I still don't see it as erotic, if only because Sansa doesn't tell us that it is. Yes, she does understand what Marillion means by "singing" but she doesn't tell us that she correlates it with Sandor's song. When she wakes up from her dream about Sandor she doesn't have whatever GRRM's version of an ache in her loins would be. For all we know she doesn't masturbate. Maybe not that unusual for a 13-year-old girl, but if she is she's not telling us. Maybe she thinks it's unladylike to tell us. Sansa is reaching sexual maturity but I'm uncomfortable putting thoughts in her head.

There really seems to be the Chekov touch on it, same as with Arya's hiding Needle. It seems the relationship built between Sansa and Sandor would be rather pointless if nothing came of it and it was just dropped and Sandor became some sort of inner voice for Sansa and stayed that way, as a sort of passive adviser.

I think that this is a great point, and I just don't see the reason for building up their relationship with the song and the two cloaks he's given her to end up as nothing. For Sandor being a non-POV character there is an awful lot of time spent in character development and specifically his relationship to the Stark girls.

Sansa does indicate that she is disillusioned with the entire idea of marriage. In her final chapter in Feast, she does think that she does not want to marry, perhaps not ever again. But, she has these thoughts in the same chapter where she is thinking of Mya and Luthor together and reflects on Sandor and his unkiss more than once. So, we don't know where she will go with these thoughts, but it is becoming apparent that she is thinking of sex and love as something separate from marriage.

This is what I don't know though. Does she not want to wed because she's tired of being a pawn, because she's already married, or because she's decided that marriage is for the birds? This is the same chapter where she associates Sandor's kiss with what happens in the marriage bed, so I don't really know that I can believe her. Sansa's ideal of marriage is two people who love each other but she hasn't seen that except from her parents. It may be that she is simply unwilling to marry without love and believes that she will never find love.

It can frustrate me at times that Sansa does not always reveal her thoughts to us as the readers.

I agree!

[Kittykatknits]

Yes, it is...And we see innocent pawn, but when you look a really smart players, they use entire arsenal...Every weapon is allowed, and one of Cersei`s greatest flaws is that she doesn`t understand this. This entire topic is dedicated to Sansa becoming player...And to become that, in order to do what must be done when you want to win your enemies, there has to be no scrupuls around. I sincerely hope she will find the way other women of power haven`t, and become Queen, and get married for love.I mean, I want her to succeed where Cersei couldn`t, having a man who loves you and respects you, man who shares burden of ruling with you. But, those are just hopes. For now, she has to prepared. And the best way to do so is to explore all the options...

Lyanna Stark had some great points here. Cersei did use sex as a weapon but we saw in Feast just how much that weapon turned on her. If we look some of those scenes, we saw how the men were using her in return, reducing her to a mere sexual object. She was left feeling rather empty afterwards. That line where she is told to leave her crown on was rather chilling to me. I don't wish for Sansa to ever use sex as a weapon.

@Kittykat and Lyanna

Remember when we also noted a while back that we don't see Sansa thinking very much about her virginity as a prize or something that goes hand in hand with a claim? This doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't aware of the importance of it (she comments on Mya not being a maid afterall), but there does seem to be a strange absence of conscious thoughts on this given that she's a highborn girl. Further, we know she is quick to bring up her maiden and marriage status when she's being threatened with something she doesn't want: the attempted rape by Marillion, or the marriage plots by Petyr and Lysa. However, look at the scene where Sweetrobin kisses her. Tyrion never appears, and she doesn't seem to consider it a good thing in hindsight that Sandor only left her with a bloody cloak.

Yep, that was two or three threads ago? :) She really doesn't think of it at all, it's a shield for her right now more than anything. The left her with nothing but a bloody cloak line has a feeling of bitterness or regret to it that I've found myself thinking on quite a bit. Did she want him to leave something else or is she upset that he left her with that cloak? There are so many ways to take that line and it's a good example where Sansa only gives us some of her thoughts, leaving us wodering about the rest.

Thank you! Colin Firth will always be Darcy to me. :)

WRT the Tyrion scene, do you think she shuddered out of desire, because I read it as shuddering from a combination of fear and revulsion.

This is what I don't know though. Does she not want to wed because she's tired of being a pawn, because she's already married, or because she's decided that marriage is for the birds? This is the same chapter where she associates Sandor's kiss with what happens in the marriage bed, so I don't really know that I can believe her. Sansa's ideal of marriage is two people who love each other but she hasn't seen that except from her parents. It may be that she is simply unwilling to marry without love and believes that she will never find love.

I agree on that Darcy picture! Yum!!

If Sansa said this statement out loud to another person, I would agree with you. But, it was her own internal thought that she says to herself. She has no reason to lie in this case which is why I believe her. I think, at this point, she doesn't want to marry for lots of reasons. Her claim, her lack of agency, and she's just plain tired of being pushed from one suitor to another.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Another thought - not only did using sex as a weapon not work well for Cersei, think of the caliber of men she was able to manipulate. Except for Jaime, they are pretty much losers. The Kettleblacks, Lancel - ick ick ick. None have any talent, brains or personality. Even the advisors she allures without having actual sex are self-serving at the least, outright incompetent criminals at the most; and they wind up deserting her when she's arrested.

Cersei's track record is pretty dismal aside from Jaime (and it says a lot when your brother is the best romantic pick you've ever made :blink: ); she can only get through to losers and self-interested users. She wasn't even able to use her sexuality on Robert to any degree, and given that society at that time it would make sense to charm and allure your husband. True, Robert isn't over Lyanna and Cersei is still cut up over not marrying Rhaegar, but both were good-looking people when they were married, and you'd think they'd want to make an effort for the good of the realm and to bear heirs. See what I mean when I say that a successful arranged marriage takes two?

What I hope Sansa learns from Cersei is not "use men for sex" but "if you're a Queen or Lady, pick good men for your counsel! Don't pick the sexy hot guy who looks like your ex-fiance or the one who flatters you the most. Surround yourself with the most capable council members you can and work with them." That was one reason Elizabeth I succeeded so well as Queen - she thought of her country, not her lady bits, and picked the best advisors she could. She even turned her (perhaps only) true love Robert Dudley into a trusted advisor and friend. I'd like to see Sansa grow up into being able to manipulate the best people to work for her and feel like they are doing her a favor. :)

[Mladen]

Do they though? The best players seem to use their strengths. Varys uses his huge amount of information, LF his info and his money, Tyrion his clever brain, the QoT her connections and her understanding of people's motivations etc. etc. I can't see Tyrion or the QoT using sex, for instance.

Cersei fails partly because she doesn't understand how people work. Had she been more empathic or just bothered with understanding people, she probably would have been a far more formidable player. Also, her willingness to use every weapon seems to have backfired on her quite badly.

There's also the implication for Sansa's character to consider. Would it really be good for Sansa the person to become a ruthless player who'd use any weapon to get ahead? That means she'd turn into a female LF, and I don't think anyone would like that.

Do you, ladies, actually think that 70-year-old lady, eunuch and dwarf would have any gain by using sex? I am talking about really hot, young and beautiful girl. She is ashamed of sex, yes, but LF is doing his best to make Sansa explore the option. Cersei is plainly stupid...She thought that tricking Robert was science, actually he was really an idiot. She thought that it would work with all men...Unfortunately, she finds out different. Also, one of the main reasons why Cersei is so crippled player of the Game is she doesn`t understand all the aspects of power. As she said in tv show "power is power". Sansa is somewhat different. Her caution comes from the fact she is guilty for trusting wrong people. Sansa, and I strongly believe in this, would never become like Cersei or female LF, due to the fact her core is quite different. Deep down, she is still little girl, but life hasn`t been fair to her. Under LF`s guidance she is to be taught everything, even sex. It`s her who will become Lf`s worst nightmare...because he`ll eventually find out how smart she really is...When sex is in question, I am more talking about Lf`s persistence her to be taught that, than her actual desire for having sex...

[Pod The Impaler]

"And she dreamt of her wedding night too, of Tyrion's eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. "I'll have a song from you," he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her again. "I wish that you were Lady," she said."

This may come off as a weird request, but since ladies who have an influence on Sansa seems to be the current subject, is anyone doing a piece on Lady* ? The relationship of Starks and their wolves is a well-trod on online, but do you think Sansa actually learned things from Lady while Lady was alive ?

*(I'm half-serious about this.)

[Mladen]

This may come off as a weird request, but since ladies who have an influence on Sansa seems to be the current subject, is anyone doing a piece on Lady* ? The relationship of Starks and their wolves is a well-trod on online, but do you think Sansa actually learned things from Lady while Lady was alive ?

*(I'm half-serious about this.)

Not entirely the bad idea...Write freeliy like the rest of us if you have noticed something during reading...All the best...

[brashcandy]

About Lady: it's an interesting idea, Pod, and feel free to note any thoughts you want to explore. My opinion is that Sandor is Lady's replacement, so she is well represented in terms of discussion. :)

[A...]

Do you, ladies, actually think that 70-year-old lady, eunuch and dwarf would have any gain by using sex? I am talking about really hot, young and beautiful girl. She is ashamed of sex, yes, but LF is doing his best to make Sansa explore the option. Cersei is plainly stupid...She thought that tricking Robert was science, actually he was really an idiot. She thought that it would work with all men...Unfortunately, she finds out different. Also, one of the main reasons why Cersei is so crippled player of the Game is she doesn`t understand all the aspects of power. As she said in tv show "power is power". Sansa is somewhat different. Her caution comes from the fact she is guilty for trusting wrong people. Sansa, and I strongly believe in this, would never become like Cersei or female LF, due to the fact her core is quite different. Deep down, she is still little girl, but life hasn`t been fair to her. Under LF`s guidance she is to be taught everything, even sex. It`s her who will become Lf`s worst nightmare...because he`ll eventually find out how smart she really is...When sex is in question, I am more talking about Lf`s persistence her to be taught that, than her actual desire for having sex...

I think when it comes to Littlefinger and sex ed it might not be so much that he actually makes her consider using sex as a weapon herself, but the fact that people will assume this as a probable modus operandi for her using the logic of: Littlefinger owns brothels -> Littlefinger has made his daughter into a player -> one of her tools is going to be sex. This might make a possible sexual encounter for Sansa more difficult in the future (if she chooses to have one, of course) as the person on the receiving end might fear manipulation?

And on a side note, I think Littlefinger is probably a shade too possessive of Alayne to make her use sex as a tool in the game - marriage and betrothal, yes (he's already proved this with Harry) - sex, no.

[brashcandy]

@Mladen, remember when Jon said sorcery was a sword with no hilt - there's no safe way to grasp it? That's what I think about sex as a weapon, there's no safe way to use it. I would rather Sansa avoid adding that particular skill to her arsenal.

[Mladen]

@A..., but it is his M.O. He uses whores for various reasons, so it isn`t quite strange to believe he`ll somehow learn Sansa how to use her body for his wicked purposes. Point is, he doesn`t even notice how clever she is and that she will see through his intentions. Other thing is his possesion, I might well agree on this, but he`s man with great survival instincts...so, if he thinks he needs Sansa to have sex, he will try to play her to do that. And, then, he`ll find out who she really is...

@brashcandy, :agree: . But, what have we learnt about magic? People won`t stop using it. And the same thing is with sex...Sex will always be tool of those who already have used it...

[A...]

@A..., but it is his M.O. He uses whores for various reasons, so it isn`t quite strange to believe he`ll somehow learn Sansa how to use her body for his wicked purposes. Point is, he doesn`t even notice how clever she is and that she will see through his intentions. Other thing is his possesion, I might well agree on this, but he`s man with great survival instincts...so, if he thinks he needs Sansa to have sex, he will try to play her to do that. And, then, he`ll find out who she really is...

Maybe he will train her to have the option of using sex, but I don't believe he will make her do this unless the situation gets dire - he has tons of whores to use for that and he needs Alayne/Sansa for the marriage market more than anything, so using her as a sex-tool on other men would kind of conflict with that...

[Mladen]

I know marriage prospects are his A plan, but she already has one unconsumated marriage. He also has to persuade her to consumate the marriage in order the plan to work...Marriage isn`t enough unless she makes her husband happy...

[brashcandy]

@brashcandy, :agree: . But, what have we learnt about magic? People won`t stop using it. And the same thing is with sex...Sex will always be tool of those who already have used it...

And what happens to those using the magic? Most often things go awry, or even when they work there's regrets and recriminations. Sex is like a shadowbaby, you have to give in order to receive and the results can be frightening and unpleasant. The giving takes a lot from the person, and keeping up such a pretence is often damaging to the self, not the other.

WRT the Tyrion scene, do you think she shuddered out of desire, because I read it as shuddering from a combination of fear and revulsion.

Oh it was definite revulsion.

I have to be honest, I still don't see it as erotic, if only because Sansa doesn't tell us that it is. Yes, she does understand what Marillion means by "singing" but she doesn't tell us that she correlates it with Sandor's song. When she wakes up from her dream about Sandor she doesn't have whatever GRRM's version of an ache in her loins would be. For all we know she doesn't masturbate. Maybe not that unusual for a 13-year-old girl, but if she is she's not telling us. Maybe she thinks it's unladylike to tell us. Sansa is reaching sexual maturity but I'm uncomfortable putting thoughts in her head.

That’s just GRRM being a troll ;) Plus, just because we recognize something as erotic, doesn’t mean the character needs to. Sansa’s feelings about Sandor were still developing at this time, and obviously still confusing. But by AFFC she appears to be more “aware” of the nature of them and feels resentment over his desertion. We’ve now moved from an unconscious substitution in her dream, to a fully conscious, almost instinctual replacement. That she’s “unsatisfied” with the ending is also not in doubt. GRRM tries to throw us off track with the adjective “cruel” to describe the kiss, but it’s not hard to see that her thoughts are typical of an erotic desire, and we have evidence from Daenerys’ chapter in ADWD that shows her using the very same word in anticipating what it would be like to kiss Daario.

This is what I don't know though. Does she not want to wed because she's tired of being a pawn, because she's already married, or because she's decided that marriage is for the birds? This is the same chapter where she associates Sandor's kiss with what happens in the marriage bed, so I don't really know that I can believe her. Sansa's ideal of marriage is two people who love each other but she hasn't seen that except from her parents. It may be that she is simply unwilling to marry without love and believes that she will never find love.

I think it’s the first reason you gave: the problem with being a pawn. Again, I don’t think her memory of Sandor in connection with the marriage bed means that she still views sex as necessary within the bounds of marriage. She’s asked whether she knows what happens in the marriage bed and she uses the kiss with Sandor as confirmation of that. If we were to follow this reasoning, we could just as easily say that due to the fact that her kiss with Sandor occurred in her own bed, when she was an unmarried woman, we’ll see that same dynamic in play when they meet up.

[A...]

I know marriage prospects are his A plan, but she already has one unconsumated marriage. He also has to persuade her to consumate the marriage in order the plan to work...Marriage isn`t enough unless she makes her husband happy...

Well, if you're thinking of using sex as a tool within a marriage then yeah, I could see this as Littlefinger-worthy. But then again I think with someone like Harry, who has a lot of experience with women, weaponizing sex would be perhaps of less use than with other men. With a man like that I think the best way to manipulate would be through innocence/denial of sex, kind of in the way Anne Boleyn played Henry VIII.

I think it’s the first reason you gave: the problem with being a pawn. Again, I don’t think her memory of Sandor in connection with the marriage bed means that she still views sex as necessary within the bounds of marriage. She’s asked whether she knows what happens in the marriage bed and she uses the kiss with Sandor as confirmation of that. If we were to follow this reasoning, we could just as easily say that due to the fact that her kiss with Sandor occurred in her own bed, when she was an unmarried woman, we’ll see that same dynamic in play when they meet up.

Regarding the bolded passage, I'm not certain that was the case. We don't really know at which point during the evening the unkiss occurred - I kind of always assumed it was at the point when, in the book, we read about how she thought he was going to kiss her and she closed her eyes, and they weren't on the bed yet at that point, right? I might be wrong here, and if the unkiss really did happen on the bed then that adds a whole new connection to the dream of the marriage bed...

[Mladen]

And what happens to those using the magic? Most often things go awry, or even when they work there's regrets and recriminations. Sex is like a shadowbaby, you have to give in order to receive and the results can be frightening and unpleasant. The giving takes a lot from the person, and keeping up such a pretence is often damaging to the self, not the other.

Dany paid a lot when she dealt with magic, and she damaged herself more than others(don`t count Khal Drogo here). I agree that sex is always damaging you(this is what I get talking with women about sex :wideeyed: ). For Sansa, it is going to be both frightening and unpleasent...