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brashcandy

From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa VII

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I don't think Sansa will remain in the Vale, it's a waystation for her ultimate destination I think. Sansa makes statements on how she did not feel at home in the Vale, how she didn't belong there, and how she could not love it. She's a child of the North, I really think that is her ultimate destination.

I'm not sure about the North being her ultimate destination, there might not even be a north to return to if the others destroy the wall. While I don't agree with those who try to paint her as more Tully than Stark, I don't think she would have a place in Winterfell. As Lyanna pointed out she's 3rd in line (4th if Robb's will names Jon and is heeded), I don't see Bran or Rickon dying/losing their claim by the end of it and so I don't think she'd have any purpose in Winterfell.

She certainly wouldn't simply be allowed to remain there for the rest of her days in peace, at some point she'd be married off/used and even if she was left there she would have no agency over her life and no real power. She'd be under the thumb of whoever was Lord of Winterfell.

then we have the QoT. I think Olenna may serve as a model for what Sansa will do. The QoT wielding power to choose her husband and plays the game to protect her family and their intersts. For example, Mace wanted Marg to be a queen. Olenna could not stop that but she could decide who the king would be! I can see Sansa doing something similar in a Regent role for Rickon as she is very much concerned with family rather than power for power's sake.

I'm not so sure how much agency QoT really has at the moment. She does have some power, but Mace is ultimately the one in charge, as you said it was Mace who wanted Marg to be queen, not QoT and QoT had no power to change that, how is it then that QoT has agency? She has more power than most true but she is still held under the same constraints that Sansa would in Winterfell and she doesn't have true freedom in the way a man could in her position. If Sansa was regent for Rickon it wouldn't be for very long. You can't be regent for life, as soon as Rickon became of age, Sansa would lose most of her power and agency.

And welcome to the thread Mortal Engines!

Thank you! :thumbsup:

Anyway, I think I'm waylaying this topic from its current focus which is women in Westeros and their interaction with Sansa so far so I'm going to shut up about her future for now! :laugh:

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A bit of a personal post, but probably interesting for the unconvinced of the potential choices Sansa might make after meeting the women we're discussing -

While we're still in the subject of how Mya Stone's and Miranda's and those other ladies' lifestyles and worldviews might influence Sansa and maybe show her that it is possible to find love and/or sex outside of marriage (which was the only possibility for Sansa until recently), I must admit that I was skeptical that Sansa might go as far as "losing" her virginity before marriage. It's funny how I didn't realise that this is exactly what happened to me. I was brought up in a really sheltered and conservative kind of way, full of catholic guilt, and although I never thought to wait for marriage, my views on "the first time" (for myself, not for others) were very conservative (in effect I was told to wait for a potential husband, but never in so many words, so I never realised what I was waiting for), and set in stone. Then I went to live in Europe for a few months. It didn't even take long before the example of the women I met there made me realise these things about me. I completely changed my worldview and my lifestyle, I became more free, and I'm definitely happier for it. So there is definitely a lot of truth to the argument that the example of these more independent women can help Sansa be "her own woman" and take full control of her life (and her love life!).

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A bit of a personal post, but probably interesting for the unconvinced of the potential choices Sansa might make after meeting the women we're discussing -

While we're still in the subject of how Mya Stone's and Miranda's and those other ladies' lifestyles and worldviews might influence Sansa and maybe show her that it is possible to find love and/or sex outside of marriage (which was the only possibility for Sansa until recently), I must admit that I was skeptical that Sansa might go as far as "losing" her virginity before marriage. It's funny how I didn't realise that this is exactly what happened to me. I was brought up in a really sheltered and conservative kind of way, full of catholic guilt, and although I never thought to wait for marriage, my views on "the first time" (for myself, not for others) were very conservative (in effect I was told to wait for a potential husband, but never in so many words, so I never realised what I was waiting for), and set in stone. Then I went to live in Europe for a few months. It didn't even take long before the example of the women I met there made me realise these things about me. I completely changed my worldview and my lifestyle, I became more free, and I'm definitely happier for it. So there is definitely a lot of truth to the argument that the example of these more independent women can help Sansa be "her own woman" and take full control of her life (and her love life!).

It's sweet how liberal people seem to always think us Europeans! I never really considered us in that light, but I suppose...

Anyways back to Sansa and her virginity - the main problem here is TYRION, since there is no way she can ever get an annulment if the maesters don't proclaim her a virgin - and I really don't want her to stay married to Tyrion. So unless Tyrion dies, I see this as a kind of impasse... Or maybe a plot shield/armour from GRRM?

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Kella

Lothor and old Oswell rowed them ashore. Sansa huddled in the bow under her cloak with the hood drawn up against the wind, wondering what awaited her. Servants emerged from the tower to meet them; a thin old woman and a fat middle-aged one, two ancient white-haired men, and a girl of two or three with a sty on one eye. When they recognized Lord Petyr they knelt on the rocks. "My household," he said. "I don't know the child. Another of Kella's bastards, I suppose. She pops one out every few years."

The two old men waded out up to their thighs to life Sansa from the boat so she would not get her skirts wet. Oswell and Lothor splashed their way ashore, as did Littlefinger himself. He gave the old woman a kiss on the cheek and grinned at the younger one. "Who fathered this one, Kella?"

The fat woman laughed. "I can't rightly say m'lord. I'm not one for telling them no."

"And all the local lads are grateful, I am quite sure."

I like to think of Kella as an older, low born Myranda Royce. She displays a similar kind of laissez-faire attitude regarding sex and men, with the former presented as a pleasurable pursuit that one does not have to think very seriously about. Obviously, that kind of extreme casual view leads to the constant “popping out” of bastards: the little girl with the sty on her eye. Sexual freedom is one thing, but it still has to be matched by sexual responsibility.

Kella cannot exactly be considered as a role model for Sansa, but her brief appearance does serve to illustrate an important theme in Sansa’s storyline: that of sexual and erotic agency. She might be lowborn and poor, but she has something that most highborn women are not privileged to enjoy: control of her own body and sexuality. Sansa has just spent her time in KL with those very things under threat of being forcefully stripped from her, and has once again found herself under the dubious protection of another man similarly interested in exploiting her for his own pleasure and profit. Kella lives a simple life on the Fingers, but it is an honest one, seemingly marked by honest consensual desire.

It’s also interesting that Kella is unsure and frankly not very bothered about her children’s fathers. Again, the idea of noble women behaving in this manner is unthinkable, but it highlights how “the law of the father” can be undermined by a woman who is able to take control of her sexuality and has the means to provide for her children without relying on a husband. Littlefinger’s question (“Who fathered this one?”), so central to patriarchal power and inheritance in Westeros, is simply inconsequential to a woman like Kella, who positions her roles as mother, sexual agent and provider as the ones that hold principal relevance in her life.

“… No one has made off with any of my rocks or sheep pellets, I see that plainly.” Petyr gestured toward the fat woman. “Kella minds my vast herds. How many sheep do I have at present, Kella?”

She had to think for a moment. “Three and twenty, m’lord. There was nine and twenty, but Bryen’s dogs killed one and we butchered some others and salted down the meat.”

Despite the initial impression one might have had of Kella, she displays a serious approach to her work for LF, and gives him specific numbers on the sheep and the reasons for the losses. A woman who is sexually free does not equate to being a woman who is inept or unproductive and marriage does not define a woman’s worth. These are all important examples for Sansa to be exposed to as she grows older, especially in the aftermath of her own marriage to Tyrion, where she rebels against the traditional expectation for women to find their husbands sexually desirable.

As a sidenote: you guys are aware of my theory that the Fingers could serve as a temporary refuge for Sansa at some point in time, perhaps with a loyal dog along for company. It's notable that most of the men in LF's household are fairly elderly, along with Grisel, his old nursemaid. There's Kella and her children, but she doesn't strike me as the kind of woman to ask any uncomfortable questions to an unconventional couple showing up. Suffice to say, there's a considerable lack of patriarchal power on this island, and the matriarchal influences are definitely open minded and tolerant. Anyways, just a pet theory :)

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I know I said I'll drop this topic but I have to reply to people! :drunk:

Welcome Mortal Engines :)

Thank you!

To support what Lyanna has said regarding Sansa's future, I think we also have to remember that LF is a man who is obsessed first and foremost with playing the game, and he's taken Sansa under his wing not only as love object, but to craft someone in his image and to shape her mindset into becoming concentrated on political intrigue above all else. Sansa, however, does not share this same vision or love for the game. She's been a reluctant player all along and has been doing so because she is focused on surviving and not ending back in Cersei's clutches.

I agree, I don't feel like she has any enjoyment or interest in playing the game other than for her own survivual, unlike Cersei, LF and QoT who seem to enjoy doing so.

Many readers likewise believe that Sansa can only have relevance if she achieves political dominance at the end of the series. The movement from pawn to player is seen as ultimately becoming a queen, but as this thread has been making clear, true player status is not in having titles, but agency, authority and autonomy in one's life. The few examples we have of Queens in the series - Dany/Cersei/Margaery- reveal the dark underbelly to the glamorous front that is depicted for the commoners. These women struggle with the same questions of agency and personal desire vs. public duty; and maintaining one's status and doing one's duty often means engaging or permitting some very morally questionable actions to be carried out, not to mention the toll it takes on personal happiness. Still, these women do desire to be Queens and to have that power, so these conflicts are necessary for them to confront and to find the best way to resolve them.

Again I agree, but I do think she still needs political power, just not political dominance, without political power she'd have no agency at all.

Instead of achieving the traditional expectations for a highborn girl, Sansa's arc has been about engaging with larger questions concerning women's roles in that society. Her relevance is in deconstructing these norms and expectations, not fulfilling or supporting them. It's significant that Sansa has more freedom and authority as Alayne Stone, than she ever knew as Sansa Stark.

Yes but one mustn't forget that part of her freedom and authority as Alayne Stone is due to LF. Without him she would be a bastard with no legitimacy and I don't she would have the same freedom and authority. Otherwise I agree, as an acknowledged bastard she has much more power than either a Queen or Sansa Stark.

It is interesting, isn't it, that we have so many women without a patriarch? :) A unique opportunity, one might say.

Agreed, also with all the men dying and soon to die (especially if the Others have a say about it) it seems that women will naturally gain more power in Westeros due to their husbands/brothers dying and them taking their places.

Perhaps, although Jon is at the Wall and UnCat in the Riverlands which makes it geographically problematic. :)

It depends, I have a feeling due to his stabbing (I think he's still alive) that Jon will leave the wall and who knows, something might lead him to head to the Riverlands.

Now I've really stopped! I swear :devil: .

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I think this quote from the Sansa chapter in AGOT in which Sansa's reaction to the coup after Robert's death is quite relevant about the women who have influenced her the most:

She had promised herself she would be a lady, gentle as the queen and as strong as her mother

Even after Lady's death, Sansa saw Cersei as a role model on how to be a lady. When later on became clear to her that for all her beauty and courtesies Cersei is a really cruel, vicious and immoral person, it really affected her and she started questioning her views, of course what happened with Joffrey also affected her in a very similar way to even greater degree.

It's also telling that both here and in the next chapter, while she was gathering courage to ask Joffrey to spare Ned's life, she again thought". It's clear that in this respect it was Cat who was her role model, at least at this point.

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It's sweet how liberal people seem to always think us Europeans! I never really considered us in that light, but I suppose...

Anyways back to Sansa and her virginity - the main problem here is TYRION, since there is no way she can ever get an annulment if the maesters don't proclaim her a virgin - and I really don't want her to stay married to Tyrion. So unless Tyrion dies, I see this as a kind of impasse... Or maybe a plot shield/armour from GRRM?

haha trust me - you really are, in comparison to what I knew before.

As to Tyrion, maybe he'll just die but maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. His story isn't over yet. But one theory is that if/when she gets the annulment she might lose her virginity so as to frustrate plans of an inconvenient arranged marriage.

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It's sweet how liberal people seem to always think us Europeans! I never really considered us in that light, but I suppose...

Anyways back to Sansa and her virginity - the main problem here is TYRION, since there is no way she can ever get an annulment if the maesters don't proclaim her a virgin - and I really don't want her to stay married to Tyrion. So unless Tyrion dies, I see this as a kind of impasse... Or maybe a plot shield/armour from GRRM?

I moved from the Middle East to England last year-like darkness to light my friend.

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Ok, we have come to the most obvious question. Will Sansa end up being Queen, or not? Two very simple answers, quite a lot of story behind them. I was convinced by Lyanna that Sansa`s path is somewhat different now, and she doesn`t want to become a Queen due to everything she saw and lived. But, let us all go back to the Purple Wedding and Sept of Baelor. Can you remember Tyrion thinking that Sansa is actually looking at Margaery with some envy and that he can`t believe that she is so stupid after everything Joffrey has done to her. Lyanna, you are right, but Sansa was feeling envious here. Maybe it was because it`s marriage, maybe not of love, but illusion of true happinnes exists. Or perhaps, she is envying Margaery on becoming the Queen(Later, she pitys her for marring Tommen). Sansa wants power in some form, she is feeling quite good in being the one ordering others (especially in Vale, she does what she has to). She isn`t shallow, this isn`t Sansa from begining, but "some things never change" (a little bit of Matrix, LOL)...At the end, Sansa will have to decide what to do. LF`s plans of killing Robert Arryn won`t work because of her...Sansa isn`t going to stay in the Vale, at the wnd her path will be different...and I see her as a Queen. At last, if she won`t make an effort, LF certainly will...

P.S. As for the virginity, I would like to see her like Queen Elizabeth I being " married to her kingdom"

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Ok, we have come to the most obvious question. Will Sansa end up being Queen, or not? Two very simple answers, quite a lot of story behind them. I was convinced by Lyanna that Sansa`s path is somewhat different now, and she doesn`t want to become a Queen due to everything she saw and lived. But, let us all go back to the Purple Wedding and Sept of Baelor. Can you remember Tyrion thinking that Sansa is actually looking at Margaery with some envy and that he can`t believe that she is so stupid after everything Joffrey has done to her. Lyanna, you are right, but Sansa was feeling envious here. Maybe it was because it`s marriage, maybe not of love, but illusion of true happinnes exists. Or perhaps, she is envying Margaery on becoming the Queen(Later, she pitys her for marring Tommen). Sansa wants power in some form, she is feeling quite good in being the one ordering others (especially in Vale, she does what she has to). She isn`t shallow, this isn`t Sansa from begining, but "some things never change" (a little bit of Matrix, LOL)...At the end, Sansa will have to decide what to do. LF`s plans of killing Robert Arryn won`t work because of her...Sansa isn`t going to stay in the Vale, at the wnd her path will be different...and I see her as a Queen. At last, if she won`t make an effort, LF certainly will...

P.S. As for the virginity, I would like to see her like Queen Elizabeth I being " married to her kingdom"

I'm not convinced Sansa was envious. This is Tyrion's POV and he has no idea what's going on in her head. She's certainly not envying the match to Joff, nor does she think it's a marriage out of love (Marg told her she knew Joff was vain and cruel), and I really don't think she wants to be Queen anymore, not in that court anyway.

Would she make a good Queen? yes. Could it happen? I'm not convinced. Not in the Iron Throne, and she couldn't be Queen in the North either (she has brothers). I think it's more likely she'll be Lady of somewhere.

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As to Tyrion, maybe he'll just die but maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. His story isn't over yet. But one theory is that if/when she gets the annulment she might lose her virginity so as to frustrate plans of an inconvenient arranged marriage.

This is a theory I am warming to. Providing she loses it to the right person, that is and not just because she doesn't want to get married again ;)

P.S. As for the virginity, I would like to see her like Queen Elizabeth I being " married to her kingdom"

This would be so :crying: :crying: :crying:

And also I don't see her story arc as going that way, what with Randa in the picture now, and the examples of Ellaria and Kella (btw great analysis brashcandy!) I think a loss of maidenhead is in store sometime not too far off. I just hope she loses Tyrion first.

I'm not convinced Sansa was envious. This is Tyrion's POV and he has no idea what's going on in her head. She's certainly not envying the match to Joff, nor does she think it's a marriage out of love (Marg told her she knew Joff was vain and cruel), and I really don't think she wants to be Queen anymore, not in that court anyway.

Would she make a good Queen? yes. Could it happen? I'm not convinced. Not in the Iron Throne, and she couldn't be Queen in the North either (she has brothers). I think it's more likely she'll be Lady of somewhere.

I agree with the above quote 100%. She felt really relieved when Joff set her aside, she wouldn't be envious now, I think this was just Tyrion being jealous of Joff, who was a handsome husband and whose wedding was a joyous occasion (haha) while he himself was an ugly husband and his wedding was a shambles - he didn't even dance (and I think his thoughts of Sansa being envious occurred while Joff was dancing, or have I misremembered?) Anyways, he was obviously comparing himself to Joffrey there as he does more than once when Sansa comes into the picture. (The man obviously has SERIOUS issues if he's envious of that little camel's dropping, I mean come on, I don't like Tyrion very much but feeling inferior to JOFFREY? Crazyness.)

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. Can you remember Tyrion thinking that Sansa is actually looking at Margaery with some envy and that he can`t believe that she is so stupid after everything Joffrey has done to her. Lyanna, you are right, but Sansa was feeling envious here.

I don't think she was envious of Margaery marrying Joffery, I think she was envious that:

1) Margaery's wedding day is surrounded by her family members, something she hadn't had during most of her stay in KL.

2) Margaery is obviously being treated much more nicely by Joffery and the Lannisters than Sansa had been during her time in KL.

By this point I don't think Sansa is envious that Margaery has to marry Joffery at all.

Or perhaps, she is envying Margaery on becoming the Queen(Later, she pitys her for marring Tommen).

Again, I disagree, after all Cersei has told her about what being Queen is like, I agree with Lyanna that Sansa does not want to be Queen by this point. Especially if Joffery is her husband.

Sansa wants power in some form, she is feeling quite good in being the one ordering others (especially in Vale, she does what she has to). She isn`t shallow, this isn`t Sansa from begining, but "some things never change" (a little bit of Matrix, LOL)...At the end, Sansa will have to decide what to do. LF`s plans of killing Robert Arryn won`t work because of her...Sansa isn`t going to stay in the Vale, at the wnd her path will be different...and I see her as a Queen. At last, if she won`t make an effort, LF certainly will...

I thought you were convinced she wouldn't be Queen? :drunk: But again I disagree, I don't think Sansa likes ordering people, she likes having control over her own interactions, decisions and having choice. This obviously includes ordering people, but its not the power that she enjoys just the freedom. Also from Cersei she has learnt that getting this agency, freedom and even the power to order people doesn't come from being Queen where you are subservant to your husband (the King's) will.

Anyway onto the topic of Kella.

Snip

Great analysis there brashcandy! I agree with pretty much all of it, I think Kella is another character that pushes this idea of independence from men in a marriage/sexual sense. She's one of those characters that makes me think Sansa might end up never married, even though I'd partly hate that.

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I don't think she was envious of Margaery marrying Joffery, I think she was envious that:

1) Margaery's wedding day is surrounded by her family members, something she hadn't had during most of her stay in KL.

2) Margaery is obviously being treated much more nicely by Joffery and the Lannisters than Sansa had been during her time in KL.

By this point I don't think Sansa is envious that Margaery has to marry Joffery at all.

Again, I disagree, after all Cersei has told her about what being Queen is like, I agree with Lyanna that Sansa does not want to be Queen by this point. Especially if Joffery is her husband.

I thought you were convinced she wouldn't be Queen? :drunk: But again I disagree, I don't think Sansa likes ordering people, she likes having control over her own interactions, decisions and having choice. This obviously includes ordering people, but its not the power that she enjoys just the freedom. Also from Cersei she has learnt that getting this agency, freedom and even the power to order people doesn't come from being Queen where you are subservant to your husband (the King's) will.

@Mortal Engines, since everybody else have wished you welcome, it would be rude of me not to the same. So welcome, and enjoy until someone like Lyanna dismisses all your ideas with perfect reasoning and accurate logic. As for being convinced, I have to say it was the last attempt, but some things don`t work, and you can`t help them...Sansa is not envious on Margaery marrying Joffrey (good ridance to him). I am not saying Joffrey has anything with her being envious. I like the things you said. Also for me, she wass envious because Margaery haden`t suffered like her and that Margaery was brave enough to proceed with the wedding despite her warning. As for the fact, it`s Tyrion POV, I trust that Imp...can`t help about it...

@A..., I know it would be so sad, but we all know how England benefitted from her...As for the scene of her losing the maidenhood, we`ll have to have a poll on that...:)

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@A..., I know it would be so sad, but we all know how England benefitted from her...As for the scene of her losing the maidenhood, we`ll have to have a poll on that... :)

You won't get an argument from me - I love Queen Bess to bits. I just don't see that path for Sansa.

Regarding the loss-of-maidenhead scene - ohmygod if GRRM writes this onto the actual page I might end up being scarred for life. I do want her to have a nice sex life, I really do, but considering GRRM's ... ehem ... talent for writing intimate scenes I think all the gory details are better left to the imagination with a nice blackout before the heaving bosoms and throbbing man-staffs come out to play. :leaving:

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I thought you were convinced she wouldn't be Queen? :drunk: But again I disagree, I don't think Sansa likes ordering people, she likes having control over her own interactions, decisions and having choice. This obviously includes ordering people, but its not the power that she enjoys just the freedom. Also from Cersei she has learnt that getting this agency, freedom and even the power to order people doesn't come from being Queen where you are subservant to your husband (the King's) will.

Yes, this is true. One thing we see is that she's quite competent and confident when she's in a position of authority. She deftly handles the maester's questions, manages to get SR out of bed by playing to his needs, and keeps him from losing control on the journey down the mountain. Cersei has a way of offending those working for her, whilst Sansa is respectful of the differences in individuals and operates accordingly. It also helps that her essential character is compassionate and kind.

Anyway onto the topic of Kella.

Great analysis there brashcandy! I agree with pretty much all of it, I think Kella is another character that pushes this idea of independence from men in a marriage/sexual sense. She's one of those characters that makes me think Sansa might end up never married, even though I'd partly hate that.

Thanks :) Yes, I do think women like Kella, Ellaria and Mya Stone offer valuable portrayals of alternative lifestyles/options open to Sansa. She doesn't have to want to be a paramour like Ellaria or to be as sexually open as Kella in order to appreciate that these women have access to greater freedom and agency. It's really just about having the personal authority to achieve what makes you happy. I think Sansa really admires Mya Stone and the work she does in the Vale, and it underscores the lesson she has learnt from LF: that birthright and beauty can only go so far.

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This would be so :crying: :crying: :crying:

Elizabeth I had lovers-men who stood by her side for most of her life.

In fact, I'll just quote myself:

Does anyone else see the similarities between Sansa/Petry and Elizabeth I/Tom Seymour?Both were highly inappropriate, take place with the man in a father-like position, both the women were very young and red-haired. Both men tried to make the object of their desire into prominent wielders of power.

More importantly, it is theorised that Seymour's inappropriateness may have traumatised Queen Bess and kept her from marrying later in life.

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Elizabeth I had lovers-men who stood by her side for most of her life.

In fact, I'll just quote myself:

This is a very apt parallel, I never thought about that actually. So in this scenario Lysa would be like Catherine Parr, who stepped too close and got burned, so to speak (ok, the theory that Catherine was poisoned is mostly crackpot, but she was sent away regardless).

But this probably wouldn't impact Sansa's future possibilities of marriage as much as it did Elizabeth's since Sansa was brought up in a home where her parents were happily married and not having one another's heads chopped off with axes... Although it still depends on how far LF is prepared to go with his creepy kissing. I do hope that her Tyrion-marriage will be plot armour enough here, since LF is no fool, and probably wouldn't get himself into the situation where he wouldn't be able to annul this marriage after the big Sansa Stark Unveiling he is planning on someday. Although this is LF we're talking about, I don't see why he should be so concerned about an annulment when he can just kill Tyrion on the sly - he doesn't seem to be very uncomfortable with this kind of thing (see: Lysa). So I am by no means certain of her safety in the long term here...

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You won't get an argument from me - I love Queen Bess to bits. I just don't see that path for Sansa.

Regarding the loss-of-maidenhead scene - ohmygod if GRRM writes this onto the actual page I might end up being scarred for life. I do want her to have a nice sex life, I really do, but considering GRRM's ... ehem ... talent for writing intimate scenes I think all the gory details are better left to the imagination with a nice blackout before the heaving bosoms and throbbing man-staffs come out to play. :leaving:

I have to say you are right...Or, perhaps, we`ll have girl-on-girl action with Sansa and Myranda... :drool:

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This is a very apt parallel, I never thought about that actually. So in this scenario Lysa would be like Catherine Parr, who stepped too close and got burned, so to speak (ok, the theory that Catherine was poisoned is mostly crackpot, but she was sent away regardless).

But this probably wouldn't impact Sansa's future possibilities of marriage as much as it did Elizabeth's since Sansa was brought up in a home where her parents were happily married and not having one another's heads chopped off with axes... Although it still depends on how far LF is prepared to go with his creepy kissing. I do hope that her Tyrion-marriage will be plot armour enough here, since LF is no fool, and probably wouldn't get himself into the situation where he wouldn't be able to annul this marriage after the big Sansa Stark Unveiling he is planning on someday. Although this is LF we're talking about, I don't see why he should be so concerned about an annulment when he can just kill Tyrion on the sly - he doesn't seem to be very uncomfortable with this kind of thing (see: Lysa). So I am by no means certain of her safety in the long term here...

Elizabeth's marriage prospects weren't impacted by Tom Seymour's creepiness but her desire to not be "mastered" was. She was receiving offers well into her forties I believe and refused to bow down to the will of her councillors.

If Sansa were to be Queen, I'd like her to be one in her own right and not make Dany's mistake in Dance.

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I have to say you are right...Or, perhaps, we`ll have girl-on-girl action with Sansa and Myranda... :drool:

I've thought of this-perhaps Sansa realises she's fluid, escapes with Brienne and the two fall in love. :wub:

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