From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa VII

[A...]

Sometimes, I amuse myself by imagining a Girl Power Royal Court:

Queen: Dany

Hand: Sansa

Mistress of Whispers: Arya

Captain of the KG: Brienne

Mistress of Ships - Asha Greyjoy!

[Lyanna Stark]

Great analysis! I remember first reading the scenes between them many years ago and feelig very bad for Sansa as it seemed that what Cersei was telling her was going to be Sansa's future. I think Cersei saw some similarities between them and projected Sansa's future based upon that. Of course, Cersei didn't tell Sansa that she had Jaime for comfort all those years either. As to that, quote, it is in the books. There are many references like this that make me think of Ser Sweetrobin too. I really think she is going to end up saving him.

Well, she sort of did, since she told Sansa Jaime was there in the birthing chamber. Cersei is so hell bent on Jaime not being anywhere near the children so nobody will suspect, but she keeps dropping hints about Jaime being the real father all over the place, just like she does when she says about Tommen that one day he will win tournaments just like his father and the Tyrells ask what Tournament that was (since Robert didn't win any).

Good old Cersei. :P

I do think you're absolutely correct in how much Cersei projects onto Sansa though, and it's also sad that she's almost gleeful that Sansa will one day become as bitter as she is herself. So she sort of wallows between reminiscence and bitterness in an odd and quite repulsive mixture. I do hope that Sansa will be able to extract the important details though, as Cersei really is quite a cautionary tale.

I'm personally now seeing only a few other possibilities for Sansa. I don't think she'll be Lady of Winterfell (for reasons you covered as well Lyanna) but I could see her taking over the Vale once/if she gets rid of LF. Or she could end up taking over the Tully line if Edmure and his child die and Blackfish doesn't step in.

Welcome to the Sansa threads Mortal Engines!

The interesting thing for Sansa is that she does have quite a few opportunities should her marriage to Tyrion somehow become annulled. If not, she is probably facing a life as a "false bastard" unless she wants to become an estranged wife. Unlike most women in Westeros, she is currently lacking a real patriarch. Littlefinger is acting like one for the moment, but I doubt it will be for a long duration. It's also doubtful if Sansa will ever meet UnCat, and if she does, will UnCat really try and meddle to that degree in Sansa's future? The only ones left are Edmure and the Blackfish, and somehow I doubt the Blackfish would try and force Sansa into a unpalatable alliance. :) I can't see Edmure doing it either, should he somehow be restored to Riverrun. He's just too soft hearted to do something like that, bless his little cotton socks.

I have a couple of long shot theories on where Sansa's future may lead, but maybe they can be discussed once we have done all the "women Sansa has been influenced by". :)

Sometimes, I amuse myself by imagining a Girl Power Royal Court:

Queen: Dany

Hand: Sansa

Mistress of Whispers: Arya

Captain of the KG: Brienne

You know, GRRM himself has said something about the women taking over, so who knows what the end results will be? :) He has also released the Sand snakes on the realm, so I think we have impressive women taking steps towards power from all parts of the realm almost: Sandsnakes, Arianne, Margaery, QoT, Cersei, Sansa, Asha, Melisandre and Dany.

It's also interesting to view in the light of all the themes of balance: too much of one thing is bad, and in this case it has been too much of the patriarchal ways and too much subjugation of women, perhaps? You have the balancing of love vs duty, winter vs summer, ice vs fire, honour vs real politik, etc etc.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Mistress of Ships - Asha Greyjoy!

Royal Excutioner: unCat.

[Winter's Knight]

Admiral of the Royal Fleet - Asha Greyjoy!

Fxed-you have to remember your name title.

[A...]

Royal Excutioner: unCat.

Oh, I laughed. On a completely crackpotty note - they could pluck Talisa from HBO and make her Grand Maester. :leaving:

EDITED for the express purpose of imagining her wearing a beard.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Lots and lots and lots to think about here. Too much to put into one post (and I wish I had more free time to comment!).

First, Sansa and Mya: I hope they wind up becoming close friends. I like Mya; and I think she could set an example for Sansa as a strong, independent woman with a "career" of her own choosing.

Now let's look closer at that career and what Sansa could learn from it: Mya is the one responsible for feeding and provisioning the Eyrie. Without her, they'd just be up on the mountaintop in their silks and velvets, starving and freezing to death. Mya, the bastard girl, is the one who makes life in the Eyrie possible.

And the Vale is largely untouched by the war. So what does it have besides men with spears - it has food, glorious food, without which all those knights and kings and fighting men would not be able to function. Could it be that Sansa, with Mya's help, provisions the Riverlands and the North with the Vale's extra food. That would be a way to win people over to her side in a very compassionate way.

A mother's most important task is to feed and provision her children. Mya is a mother figure in that regard even if she doesn't have any biological children. Sansa seems to be set up as aligned with the Mother archetype - she sings the Mother's song to the frightened women at King's Landing, it is the Mother song she sings to Sandor before touching his burned cheek and feeling his tears (a Motherly healing gesture), she is taking on the chatelaine role at the Eyrie, she is doing her best to be a second mom to Sweetrobin - who, by the way, I hope lives; he might not be really "sickly," just in need of good food, fresh air, and an unspoiled upbringing.

I hope more than anything that Sansa has the biological children she yearns for - she has several fantasies of sons named for her father and brothers and even a girl who looks like Arya. But I see her as taking a larger, motherly, nurturing role for at least the North as well. Mya is an example not only of a woman who has a sex life and work life on her own terms, but of a woman whose power lies in what she gives to people, not what she takes from them; also the power of "you may have the titles, but I have the food, and that is what's really important."

[Mortal Engines]

to take over the Vale, she would have to marry Harry the Heir and I don't see her doing that, considering she's done with the arranged marriage. If Harry should die and Sweetrobin as well, there will be another one who's Heir to the Vale.

I should of explain my predication a bit clearly. She would be (theoretically) be able to take over the Vale if she got rid of LF and stopped him poisoning Sweetrobin (which he seems to be doing) and then marrying Sweetrobin (he seems to definitely have taken a shine to her). In this scenario, I think we can safely say she would easily rule over Sweetrobin and thus the vale.

Then there is the problem of her being Sansa with her Tully characteristics . She's running out of hairdye as we've seen in AFFC - what does this mean? There is a high chance she will be recognized sooner rather than later. Then it will be very hard to maintain her role as bastard of Littlefinger. If she comes any close to Kings landing, she will be recognized immediately.

GOSH I just want to read TWOW. ._.

Lots of ways around this I think, either obtain more hairdye or possibly cut her hair to make her less recognizable. You never know she might meet Blackfish and work together with him to create a ploy where she is his bastard child, this would sort out the issue of her hair and allow her to live a life in peace.

Also I really want to read TWOW too xD.

[Lady Lea]

It's funny that the two women Sansa meets who have been most unhappy with their arranged marriages (Lysa and Cersei) are also the two women trying to force bad arranged marriages on her, and not caring a fig about what Sansa wants/feels/etc.

I agree with this. Also, being queen Sansa would have to make a political match even more than she would as Lady of Winterfell, which at this point I think would make her unhappy.

As we see her now Sansa is miles away from being anywhere near a position in which she could practically be queen since she is posing as a bastard girl in the Vale, and has neither a valid claim on queenship nor supporters who would be willing to put her on the throne. Not so Margaery, what with her marriage to Tommen and Daenerys who is a Targ and has dragons (btw I agree with Mladen, she wouldn't be a very good queen in the long run).

Personally, though as I stated before, I'm rooting for Myrcella who has Dorne behind her, was born into the royal family and seems at an early age to show more suitability to rule than her mother or either of her brothers, being both kind, intelligent and brave (small hints only so far, but telling like:

1) how she didn't cry when going to Dorne even though she was eight and leaving everything she knew behind

2) how easily she acclimated to Dorne - as evidenced by acceptance of Dornish cuisine which Arys couldn't stand and her taking to Trystane so quickly

3) we know how clever she is since she quickly caught on to the reason she had to dress up as her handmaiden was so that if Stannis caught them she's be safer, and that it was not in fact a game, as her Septa had told her; we also know she managed to learn the rules of Cyvasse really quickly, even though it's a difficult game and her handmaiden had trouble learning. What she says about this is that Trystane always aligns his pieces in the same way with the mountains in front and the elephants in the passes, so she sends her dragon through to eat his elephants - a good sign she could with time learn war strategy.)

Tze had a nice post a while back about why our impressions of Myrcella might be wrong, and I quite agree with him. Hang on, I'm trying to find it.

ETA: there it is! From "Myrcella Baratheon: marked for greatness?"

Should we really be assuming that Myrcella is a sweet, intelligent little girl? Arys thinks of her that way, but Arys's judgment isn't exactly stellar. We know very little about her, all things considered, but there are plenty of hints that Myrcella isn't necessarily the shining example of wonder that she's made out to be.

While chasing cats in the Red Keep, Arya encounters Myrcella (and Tommen). Look at Myrcella's reaction here:

"What were you doing to that cat, boy?" Myrcella asked again, sternly. To her brother she said, "He's a ragged boy, isn't he? Look at him." She giggled.

Myrcella comes across as a bit of a mean girl here, doesn't she? Needlessly mocking someone she thinks is less fortunate than her.

And when Arianne and her friends told Myrcella that they wanted to crown her Queen and depose her younger brother, Myrcella didn't exactly put up a fuss. Yes, it's possible that she felt she couldn't object, given the circumstances . . . but she doesn't even put up a token protest.

She didn't cry when she was leaving King's Landing for Dorne, but for all we know, she was just glad to get away from Joffrey (and/or Cersei).

And how clever is she, really? Arys Oakheart says that she was constantly defeating Trystane at cyvasse, which would ordinarily hint that she's quite intelligent. But after re-reading there, I'm starting to think Myrcella only won because Trystane was constantly letting her win.

Arys Oakheart says that

Prince Trystane had taken to [cyvasse] at once, and Myrcella had learned it so she could play with him.

Cyvasse is a game of strategy, rather like chess; you don't "take to it" unless you enjoy games of strategy and skill. So since Trystane loved the game (as Myrcella only learned it because he already enjoyed playing it), that would hint that Trystane is the sort of person who enjoys games of strategy and skill. Yet Myrcella says that, when playing against her, Trystane

always sets his squares up the same way, with all the mountains in the front and his elephants in the passes . . . So I send my dragon through to eat his elephants.

First, we're told that Trystane took to cyvasse "at once". Then we're told that, when playing with Myrcella, he always plays extremely poorly---he lines up his pieces predictably, the same way every time, and she then defeats him the same way every time. Either Trystane is naturally a poor cyvasse player, which would make little sense, given that people tend not to enjoy games that they're naturally terrible at, or he's intentionally losing when he plays with Myrcella. And Arys says of Myrcella,

She was not quite one-and-ten, her betrothed three-and-ten; even so, she had been winning more oft than not of late. Trystane did not seem to mind.

So he sets up his pieces the same way every time, Myrcella defeats him the same way every time, and Trystane, who enjoys playing this game of strategy and skill, seems perfectly happy with this arrangement. This is not to say that Myrcella is stupid, but I think Myrcella's cyvasse victories owe more to the fact that Trystane likes her and therefore allows her to win than they do to any natural skill set of Myrcella's.

[Mortal Engines]

Welcome to the Sansa threads Mortal Engines!

The interesting thing for Sansa is that she does have quite a few opportunities should her marriage to Tyrion somehow become annulled. If not, she is probably facing a life as a "false bastard" unless she wants to become an estranged wife. Unlike most women in Westeros, she is currently lacking a real patriarch. Littlefinger is acting like one for the moment, but I doubt it will be for a long duration. It's also doubtful if Sansa will ever meet UnCat, and if she does, will UnCat really try and meddle to that degree in Sansa's future? The only ones left are Edmure and the Blackfish, and somehow I doubt the Blackfish would try and force Sansa into a unpalatable alliance. :) I can't see Edmure doing it either, should he somehow be restored to Riverrun. He's just too soft hearted to do something like that, bless his little cotton socks.

I have a couple of long shot theories on where Sansa's future may lead, but maybe they can be discussed once we have done all the "women Sansa has been influenced by". :)

Thanks for the welcome! And I agree but I also think she never will get a real patriarch, I don't think Sandor will assume this role or anyone will. As the story has gone on it seems that its Sansa's destiny to lose all possible patriarchs and become truly independent. Unlike Arya who goes from one patriarch to another.

I don't think Uncat will see any of her children but I think she might see Jon. Pretty bittersweet that would be, the last person she sees is not her own child but the bastard son who she came to hate.

I completely forgot that was how the prophecy was worded! Duh, silly me for spending too much time in the fandom and not concentrating on the books! :blushing: Well, this makes me think that a lot of that has already come true with Margaery...

I'm not sure, I still think the prophecy means she'll lose her Queenship to said younger, more beautiful queen. After all her status as Queen regent is definitely something Cersei holds very dear.

I think the Blackfish disappearing so conveniently has to have some significance an that maybe he will have some future interaction with Sansa...? The Tully line though - no, she's a Stark and always will be a Stark.

I agree, I definitely think Blackfish will play some part in Sansa's story.

As to Sansa's disappearing from the game/remaining in the game, I really can't say, this is one of the main points I'm divided about in her storyline (as opposed to things like her eventually being recognised as herself or her not becoming Queen which I am pretty sure of). If she does stay though, I'm inclined to think it won't be from greed/the fun of it like LF but because she would at that point convinced that she can do some good/help people that way.

Yes definitely, if she remains in the game it will be for a 'the good of the realm' sense rather than 'I want to rule everything' sense. She'll be a Varys of sorts (assuming Varys really is doing it for the good of the the realm).

Sorry for delayed replies by the way, I'm working while I post (I'm a games tester :P).

[Kittykatknits]

Firstly, its nice to meet you all in this thread, I've been reading the Sansa thread for a while and its been one of the most interesting on the board (imo it should be a sticky thread like R+L=J is).

You're 100% right and you also crushed my dreams of Sansa being Queen by the end. I was seriously hoping for it but now you've convinced that it's not only unlikely to happen but wrong if it does as she won't have the agency she wants (and deserves imo).

I'm personally now seeing only a few other possibilities for Sansa. I don't think she'll be Lady of Winterfell (for reasons you covered as well Lyanna) but I could see her taking over the Vale once/if she gets rid of LF. Or she could end up taking over the Tully line if Edmure and his child die and Blackfish doesn't step in.

But I think it's also likely is that she'll disappear out of the game once the game is over. While she'll definitely become a player in it, I don't think she'll remain in it once the immediate threats are over. I could see her continuing to pretend to be a bastard with limited power and living a happy life in solitude. Or possibly, she can maintain her role as bastard of LF (even after getting rid of him) and becoming a player of the game with no/little titles similar to LF before he got his lordship and Varys. This again would give her the agency she wanted.

She is definitely starting to see the benefits of being a bastard that is acknowledged.

I could even see her ending up as a Master of Coin for whoever gets the throne (if the Iron throne is still there by the end of the series)

I think the Blackfish disappearing so conveniently has to have some significance an that maybe he will have some future interaction with Sansa...? The Tully line though - no, she's a Stark and always will be a Stark.

As to Sansa's disappearing from the game/remaining in the game, I really can't say, this is one of the main points I'm divided about in her storyline (as opposed to things like her eventually being recognised as herself or her not becoming Queen which I am pretty sure of). If she does stay though, I'm inclined to think it won't be from greed/the fun of it like LF but because she would at that point convinced that she can do some good/help people that way.

I don't think Sansa will remain in the Vale, it's a waystation for her ultimate destination I think. Sansa makes statements on how she did not feel at home in the Vale, how she didn't belong there, and how she could not love it. She's a child of the North, I really think that is her ultimate destination.

I think the Blackfish is going to appear in either the BWB or Sansa's storyling. Actually, I think it is a possibility that these two arcs may merge together as if UnCat sees one of her children again, I think Sansa is the most likely.

We've seen women wield power in different ways for different reasons. Dany wields through her three WMDs (note her grasp on power grows more tenious in Dance when she chains them up!), Cersei as Regent through Tommen, Arianne is heir in Dorne, Asha is thinking of wielding power through her brother, and then we have the QoT. I think Olenna may serve as a model for what Sansa will do. The QoT wielding power to choose her husband and plays the game to protect her family and their intersts. For example, Mace wanted Marg to be a queen. Olenna could not stop that but she could decide who the king would be! I can see Sansa doing something similar in a Regent role for Rickon as she is very much concerned with family rather than power for power's sake.

And welcome to the thread Mortal Engines!

Well, she sort of did, since she told Sansa Jaime was there in the birthing chamber. Cersei is so hell bent on Jaime not being anywhere near the children so nobody will suspect, but she keeps dropping hints about Jaime being the real father all over the place, just like she does when she says about Tommen that one day he will win tournaments just like his father and the Tyrells ask what Tournament that was (since Robert didn't win any).

Good old Cersei. :P

I do think you're absolutely correct in how much Cersei projects onto Sansa though, and it's also sad that she's almost gleeful that Sansa will one day become as bitter as she is herself. So she sort of wallows between reminiscence and bitterness in an odd and quite repulsive mixture. I do hope that Sansa will be able to extract the important details though, as Cersei really is quite a cautionary tale.

Bad wording on my part. I was thinking more on how Sansa won't have anything like that. I noticed during their conversations, Cersei would also indicate with words or smiles too. At one point, Sansa call Joff the trueborn son and rightful heir and notes that Cersei gets a queer smile on her face.

[Lyanna Stark]

And the Vale is largely untouched by the war. So what does it have besides men with spears - it has food, glorious food, without which all those knights and kings and fighting men would not be able to function. Could it be that Sansa, with Mya's help, provisions the Riverlands and the North with the Vale's extra food. That would be a way to win people over to her side in a very compassionate way.

That's a brilliant insight, KittensRule. I also tend to believe that there is a reason the Vale has been spared. Jon Snow even ponders in ADWD how Cat's sister Lysa would like selling grain to Ned Stark's bastard. If Sansa can take charge, I think the Vale's wealth and food supplies could definitely play a huge role in providing for the war ravaged realm as a whole.

A mother's most important task is to feed and provision her children. Mya is a mother figure in that regard even if she doesn't have any biological children. Sansa seems to be set up as aligned with the Mother archetype - she sings the Mother's song to the frightened women at King's Landing, it is the Mother song she sings to Sandor before touching his burned cheek and feeling his tears (a Motherly healing gesture), she is taking on the chatelaine role at the Eyrie, she is doing her best to be a second mom to Sweetrobin - who, by the way, I hope lives; he might not be really "sickly," just in need of good food, fresh air, and an unspoiled upbringing.

Interesting paralell with Dany here as well who is the Mother to her dragons and who is referred to as Mother by the slaves she freed, although she cannot have "real" children. The role of metaphorical mother is really something that a lot of the women in the novels have different ways of relating too, either directly or indirectly. Mya's role as provider is very interesting in this regard since she travels a dangerous road to provide nourishment.

Like you, I really hope that Sansa will be able to take Sweetrobin under her wing and that she can be a mother type figure to him, even if he is an annoying little spoilt brat. God knows he needs it.

I should of explain my predication a bit clearly. She would be (theoretically) be able to take over the Vale if she got rid of LF and stopped him poisoning Sweetrobin (which he seems to be doing) and then marrying Sweetrobin (he seems to definitely have taken a shine to her). In this scenario, I think we can safely say she would easily rule over Sweetrobin and thus the vale.

:agree:

Littlefinger coldly assumes that Sweetrobin will die when LF needs him to, but what if Sansa will be able to somehow save him, or get him someone who can better treat his condition? Given a bit more time, I think she will definitely be able to rule over Sweetrobin and this is one of my long term theories, that she'll take over LF's role as Sweetrobin's ruler once LF is out of the picture, either as Lady Protector, or as his wife (where she'd boss him around, since he's still be small, poorly and sick).

[Kittykatknits]

It's funny that the two women Sansa meets who have been most unhappy with their arranged marriages (Lysa and Cersei) are also the two women trying to force bad arranged marriages on her, and not caring a fig about what Sansa wants/feels/etc.

Tze had a nice post a while back about why our impressions of Myrcella might be wrong, and I quite agree with him. Hang on, I'm trying to find it.

Ack, I need to step away from the computer for RL but this thread keep sucking me in. But, two quick comments.

- I'd love to see that post if you have it. I like Myrcella from what we have seen her, she is by far the smartest of the Lannister children.

- I think Cersei/Lysa show us just how much women can serve and reinforce the patriarchy just as much as men. They have suffered greatly under it's rule. But, rather than summoning sympathy for other woman and seeking change, they push against it for personal gain while subjecting others to the same fate. It's quite sad but also realistic.

[Kittykatknits]

That's a brilliant insight, KittensRule. I also tend to believe that there is a reason the Vale has been spared. Jon Snow even ponders in ADWD how Cat's sister Lysa would like selling grain to Ned Stark's bastard. If Sansa can take charge, I think the Vale's wealth and food supplies could definitely play a huge role in providing for the war ravaged realm as a whole.

I meant to comment when I saw the original post so I hope this is seen by KittensRule too.

My crackpot is that the Vale army and food aren't going to be used to take back the North or fight for/against Dany or fAegon. I think the Vale army is going to be wielded against the Others an the food for those in the fight.

I don't have evidence for this, just a feeling. But, there has been to much mention of it in the books and the idea of everyone marching North with wagons of food so Sansa can retake WF seems to obvious.

[Winter's Knight]

It's funny that the two women Sansa meets who have been most unhappy with their arranged marriages (Lysa and Cersei) are also the two women trying to force bad arranged marriages on her, and not caring a fig about what Sansa wants/feels/etc.

There's a term for this that I cannot remember-it identifies the condition wherein survivors of a traumatic situation have no sympathy for fellow victims, thinking that since they themselves "got over it/dealt with it", others should too.

Cersei shows signs of this throughout the books-her interaction with Sansa and her lack of empathy for Lollys being two such examples.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

There's a term for this that I cannot remember-it identifies the condition wherein survivors of a traumatic situation have no sympathy for fellow victims, thinking that since they themselves "got over it/dealt with it", others should too.

Cersei shows signs of this throughout the books-her interaction with Sansa and her lack of empathy for Lollys being two such examples.

Isn't it just like the 'abused turned abuser'? There is a high chance that if you get abused in your childhood, you will become an abuser yourself when you're a parent yourselves.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

I meant to comment when I saw the original post so I hope this is seen by KittensRule too.

My crackpot is that the Vale army and food aren't going to be used to take back the North or fight for/against Dany or fAegon. I think the Vale army is going to be wielded against the Others an the food for those in the fight.

I don't have evidence for this, just a feeling. But, there has been to much mention of it in the books and the idea of everyone marching North with wagons of food so Sansa can retake WF seems to obvious.

I hadn't thought of that (since I get so wrapped up in reading the human politics I sometimes forget that the Others are coming!) but this is also a very good theory. In any event, I believe that the Vale has remained untouched for a reason, and that its supplies will be important in the next books; and that Sansa has been entangled in the Vale politics for a reason, even if she's not riding to the rescue. She's learning from Mya about the importance of people who aren't kings and nobles, as well as the practical side of life which she has been shielded from up until now.

[Lady Lea]

Edited my post to add Tze's commentary on Myrcella. Original link: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66904-myrcella-baratheon-marked-for-greatness/page__st__40#entry3315166

[brashcandy]

Firstly, its nice to meet you all in this thread, I've been reading the Sansa thread for a while and its been one of the most interesting on the board (imo it should be a sticky thread like R+L=J is).

You're 100% right and you also crushed my dreams of Sansa being Queen by the end. I was seriously hoping for it but now you've convinced that it's not only unlikely to happen but wrong if it does as she won't have the agency she wants (and deserves imo).

Welcome Mortal Engines :)

To support what Lyanna has said regarding Sansa's future, I think we also have to remember that LF is a man who is obsessed first and foremost with playing the game, and he's taken Sansa under his wing not only as love object, but to craft someone in his image and to shape her mindset into becoming concentrated on political intrigue above all else. Sansa, however, does not share this same vision or love for the game. She's been a reluctant player all along and has been doing so because she is focused on surviving and not ending back in Cersei's clutches.

Many readers likewise believe that Sansa can only have relevance if she achieves political dominance at the end of the series. The movement from pawn to player is seen as ultimately becoming a queen, but as this thread has been making clear, true player status is not in having titles, but agency, authority and autonomy in one's life. The few examples we have of Queens in the series - Dany/Cersei/Margaery- reveal the dark underbelly to the glamorous front that is depicted for the commoners. These women struggle with the same questions of agency and personal desire vs. public duty; and maintaining one's status and doing one's duty often means engaging or permitting some very morally questionable actions to be carried out, not to mention the toll it takes on personal happiness. Still, these women do desire to be Queens and to have that power, so these conflicts are necessary for them to confront and to find the best way to resolve them.

We can't say the same thing about Sansa. Even when she wanted to be a Queen in early AGOT, it was always in relation to an ideal prince to whom she would be the ideal wife and mother. She's since learnt the hard way that ideal men do not exist and that marriage can be a stifling and oppressive union. She's also seen first hand how power corrupts and the depths people have to sink to achieve/maintain it. Instead of achieving the traditional expectations for a highborn girl, Sansa's arc has been about engaging with larger questions concerning women's roles in that society. Her relevance is in deconstructing these norms and expectations, not fulfilling or supporting them. It's significant that Sansa has more freedom and authority as Alayne Stone, than she ever knew as Sansa Stark.

[Winter's Knight]

Isn't it just like the 'abused turned abuser'? There is a high chance that if you get abused in your childhood, you will become an abuser yourself when you're a parent yourselves.

No, I'm thinking more of a Survivor's Hubris-like say in Westoros Cersei's attitude towards Sansa is along the lines of "Thousands of women before you suffered this and survived. I suffered this and survived-what makes your pain so special?".

[Lyanna Stark]

And I agree but I also think she never will get a real patriarch, I don't think Sandor will assume this role or anyone will. As the story has gone on it seems that its Sansa's destiny to lose all possible patriarchs and become truly independent. Unlike Arya who goes from one patriarch to another.

It is interesting, isn't it, that we have so many women without a patriarch? :) A unique opportunity, one might say. I also agree with you that Sandor doesn't seem likely to take up the role as patriarch as it does not strike me as anything he'd really be interested in, as he has in his own strange way respected Sansa's wishes, and also currently, he has no power to speak of and no influence. Should he rejoin society, he will need someone to take him under his wing (or her wing!) to not be instantly arrested and executed. What is more, he is also used to working for a female boss (Cersei) and seems fine with that.

I don't think Uncat will see any of her children but I think she might see Jon. Pretty bittersweet that would be, the last person she sees is not her own child but the bastard son who she came to hate.

Perhaps, although Jon is at the Wall and UnCat in the Riverlands which makes it geographically problematic. :)

The POVs and major characters that are linked around the Riverlands/Vale are Sansa, Brienne, Jaime, UnCat, Littlefinger, the Blackfish and Sandor. In the North we have Jon, Asha, Theon, Bran. Arya could either go to the Wall (Justin Massey) or to Kings Landing (Kevan sent Gregor's old men at arms to Braavos and we know how much Arya likes them....)