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Prophecy: Sansa Kills Littlefinger


Devala

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Wasn't Gregor Clegane featured in Brans dream when he was in a coma, as a stonegiant?

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

Of course, Sansa crying, Ned pleading, Arya watching refers to Lady's death. But the shadows around them, and particularly the giant in armor made of stone.. Robert Strong, his blood black because of the poison, presumably without a head because that was sent to Dorne? Could this have something to do with it?

I agree with Lyanna Stark. I'm not really sure what to make of this scene to be honest. Everything else that Bran sees is current. This one seems to match events aroud the death of Lady except for the stone armor and thick black blood. I think it is LF or Gregor but I'm not sure how this scene would come about.

Lighten up, Francis.

BTW, congratulations on your 20,000th post. We're all proud of you.

Francis?

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It would be a nice change from 5 books worth of "Le sigh. [insert douchebag pretty boy here] is so dreamy.Oh won''t somebody save me! Lemony lemon cakes!" :cool4:

i think what DH is referring to, and what made Sansa one of my least favorite characters for the longest time, was the fact that she was always a character that things happened to, instead of a character who was proactive. she's an idealist at heart and cares mostly for songs and heroes and the like, things that we can all agree are in direct conflict to how the game is actually played.

my hope is that she has at this point outgrown the lemon cakes and songs of chivalry to learn to play the game. she would have certainly learned from the best. and if if her becoming a player leads to her killing littlefinger, that would just be gravy. because i seriously hate that guy.

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Or.... it could be that she slew the Giant ( Littlefinger) by making him fall in love with her - and that ultimately he won't harm her, even if it means his death.

Kinda lame though. I want Sansa to finally "get it" by putting all the pieces together and figuring out that LF was the one who set in motion the downfall of her family and betrayed her father.

I'd like to see her take LF knife, the same knife he used to trick Cateltyn, and stab him with it.

Only then can Sansa redeem herself in my eyes.

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Or.... it could be that she slew the Giant ( Littlefinger) by making him fall in love with her - and that ultimately he won't harm her, even if it means his death.

He's already obsessed with her.

Kinda lame though. I want Sansa to finally "get it" by putting all the pieces together and figuring out that LF was the one who set in motion the downfall of her family and betrayed her father.

I'd like to see her take LF knife, the same knife he used to trick Cateltyn, and stab him with it.

Only then can Sansa redeem herself in my eyes.

As much as I would love to see Sansa be the one to take down LF, I'm curious as to why it would signify her redemption. What exactly does she need to be redeemed for?

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What exactly does she need to be redeemed for?

For her crappy attitude and being such a boring, passive character. Sansapologists always use the same excuse "what would you have her do? shoot lightning bolts out of her arse?" Actually, yes I would. When reading fiction, your main character(s) should not be passive for five flaming books!........Or "She's a 12 year old girl. How many 12 year old girls do you know that would blah blah blah?" None! I don't know any. But I don't want to read about 12 year old girls that I know. I want to read about characters kicking ass and taking names. I know it's unrealistic and I don't care, and not because it is a fantasy setting either; but because if an author takes the time to write about a character at such great length, we can assume it is because (usually) that character is an extraordinary person. Sansa may be on her way, but she's not there yet.

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I'm not saying you're wrong, but can I get a quote from the books please? It's been a while since I've read them and everywhere I look it's a mocking bird.

From Storm, when Sansa arrives with Petyr in the Fingers:

"My grandfather’s shield," Petyr explained when he saw her gazing at it. "His own father was born in Braavos and came to the Vale as a sellsword in the hire of Lord Corbray, so my grandfather took the head of the Titan as his sigil when he was knighted."
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<random stuff>

.

Seriously, I think a lot of people must have mispurchased ASOIAF. They actually thought it was Salvatore's latest Drizzt do Urden book. It should have enough fireballs and sword fights to satisfy anyone without bothering will dull stuff like character development.

I also just love that she has a "crappy attitude". This is the girl who could feel compassion with Margaery Tyrell when she was about to marry Joffrey, she feels for Sweetrobin, for the Hound, even for Tyrion. Yet apparently she has a "crappy attitude". I tend to think people must skim her chapters, or just skip them, or at least not read anything past her first chapter in AGOT.

As much as I would love to see Sansa be the one to take down LF, I'm curious as to why it would signify her redemption. What exactly does she need to be redeemed for?

Probably "not fighting with a sword" at a guess.

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Probably "not fighting with a sword" at a guess.

- She failed to kill Joffrey, the queen, and Tywin while in KL.

- Failed to realize that Stannis is awesome and so prevent the Lannister/Tyrell alliance so that he would win the BBW

- Failed to read Tywin's mind and therefore send a message to her brother to prevent the RW

- Didn't realize that she had the poison in her hairnet so failed to be the one to actually slip it in to Joffrey's wine

- Failed to see Tyrion's good side

I'm sure there are several that I've forgotten.

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For her crappy attitude and being such a boring, passive character. Sansapologists always use the same excuse "what would you have her do? shoot lightning bolts out of her arse?" Actually, yes I would. When reading fiction, your main character(s) should not be passive for five flaming books!........Or "She's a 12 year old girl. How many 12 year old girls do you know that would blah blah blah?" None! I don't know any. But I don't want to read about 12 year old girls that I know. I want to read about characters kicking ass and taking names. I know it's unrealistic and I don't care, and not because it is a fantasy setting either; but because if an author takes the time to write about a character at such great length, we can assume it is because (usually) that character is an extraordinary person. Sansa may be on her way, but she's not there yet.

Take a minute and realise the nonsense you're spewing. Sansa Stark does not have to conform to what you want her to be. She's a complex and interesting character and through her arc Martin explores pertinent issues related to womanhood and femininity. If ASOIAF was just about people shooting lightning bolts from their arses I can guarantee you that this forum would not exist, or it would not be so popular; and trying to diminish Sansa's relevance by stating that she's a 12 yr girl you don't want to read about is the height of folly in a series that revolves around very young protagonists who are all growing and learning from different experiences.

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Time to link this thread again: Sansa is the worst person in Westeros.

Honestly, sometimes I can't believe the utter crap people write about Sansa. It's like coming to a book, reading a character, and then saying: "Sorry, you're not the character I want you to be, game over!!" I mean, have we entered some kind of twilight zone populated by ignorant hatemongers?

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Time to link this thread again: Sansa is the worst person in Westeros.

I completely understand that you guys don't agree with each other, but DireHiker has a point here. Sansa hasn't done a lot of significant things by herself until now. Almost everything happened to her. People can think that's pretty boring and don't want to read about her anymore. People like Arya more because she kicks asses quite regularly. Kills people, makes her own choices, takes control of her own life. A life in which Sansa would have been killed at least 10 times.

But then again, that is what makes her that interesting. GRRM doesn't write about a boring 12-year-old girl just to let her die in the next book without her doing anything big. I believe she will become a masterplayer at the Game of Thrones in the next two books. I really like Sansa, like reading about her growth (which other people seem to miss) and can't wait for her to become that masterplayer. Her chapters are actually my favourite. Yeah, my name didn't give that away, did it?

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<white-knighting and obvious lack of ability to detect exaggeration>

So her saving grace is that she sometimes feels bad for people in bad positions? Whooptie-do. Occasionally feeling bad for someone who is in a shit position (Margaery) or is just plain pathetic (sweetrobin) is the least that anyone could do. You don't get a lot of credit for that. Anyone who isn't a sociopath would do the same.

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- She failed to kill Joffrey, the queen, and Tywin while in KL.

- Failed to realize that Stannis is awesome and so prevent the Lannister/Tyrell alliance so that he would win the BBW

- Failed to read Tywin's mind and therefore send a message to her brother to prevent the RW

- Didn't realize that she had the poison in her hairnet so failed to be the one to actually slip it in to Joffrey's wine

- Failed to see Tyrion's good side

I'm sure there are several that I've forgotten.

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You forget the most importaaaaaaaant: Not going with Sandor. You know, the one who pointed a knife at her throat several moments before?

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She's a complex and interesting character and through her arc Martin explores pertinent issues related to womanhood and femininity.

It's not the character or story that I don't like. GRRM is doing a fine job of deconstructing the damsel-in-distress trope (other than making her too passive for my taste). I just wouldn't like her much if she was a real person.

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Time to link this thread again: Sansa is the worst person in Westeros.

There's this rather shocking one where Sansa ties with Vargo Hoat in votes in Most Horrible Person in Westeros.

Ahead of Biter, Sandor Clegane, Viserys, Rorge, Theon, Balon, Victarion, Euron, Aeron, Darkstar, Bronn or Shagga

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So her saving grace is that she sometimes feels bad for people in bad positions? Whooptie-do. Occasionally feeling bad for someone who is in a shit position (Margaery) or is just plain pathetic (sweetrobin) is the least that anyone could do. You don't get a lot of credit for that. Anyone who isn't a sociopath would do the same.

Yep, because possessing virtues like compassion, empathy, forgiveness, kindness are clearly traits to be glossed over and DOES NOT make a strong female character.

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I completely understand that you guys don't agree with each other, but DireHiker has a point here. .

Sansa hasn't done a lot of significant things by herself until now. Almost everything happened to her. People can think that's pretty boring and don't want to read about her anymore.

Hasn't done significant things? What would you call surviving her captivity, trying to get her father's life spared, saving Dontos' life, acting as the catalyst for Sandor's transformation, calming the women during the Blackwater battle, rebelling against the social conditioning that women should be dutiful to their husbands in all areas etc etc. These are very very significant things in my book, but I suppose too many people are invested in seeing Sansa as a helpless victim with no voice or will power.

People like Arya more because she kicks asses quite regularly. Kills people, makes her own choices, takes control of her own life. A life in which Sansa would have been killed at least 10 times.

Huh? When has Arya been making her own choices and taking control of her own life? From the time she left KL up to the time she's with the Hound she's been at the mercy of others with very little say over her fate. Jaqen's coin allows her to escape Westeros, but it's becoming clear that she's ended up in a very similar exploitative situation to Sansa's.

But then again, that is what makes her that interesting. GRRM doesn't write about a boring 12-year-old girl just to let her die in the next book without her doing anything big. I believe she will become a masterplayer at the Game of Thrones in the next two books. I really like Sansa, like reading about her growth (which other people seem to miss) and can't wait for her to become that masterplayer. Her chapters are actually my favourite. Yeah, my name didn't give that away, did it?

1. Seeing Sansa as boring is an opinion, not a fact. I find her endlessly fascinating and the 13 PTP threads would attest that I'm not alone in that estimation.

2. Waiting for Sansa to do something "big" is all well and good, but ultimately it's missing the true significance of her arc. It's all about Sansa achieving agency and autonomy, and whether she does that in a "small" or "big" way is all that's important to me.

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And this thread has officially become another Sansa-haters vs. Lovers thread.

Typical.

But I'm going to be a hypocrite, and join in!

I understand that you think Sansa is passive for a fantasy character, however, GRRM writes realistic fantasy. Namely, the good guys aren't all people with huge powers and active personalities. With the realistic fantasy, he shows a variety of characters. Everyone is different, that's the beauty of his world.

Sansa, in her position, for what she was raised to be, could have done no more. She's not Arya, she's Sansa.

Arya's life situation s led her to doing some crazy things, in addition to how she was raised and WHO SHE IS. Sansa is NOT Arya and should not be held to the same standard...

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