Who Is Smarter, Varys Or Littlefinger?

[Mortal Engines]

I have to say Varys is better at the game. While I think both are equal in 'smartness', Varys is more experienced and slightly more cunning. Also I don't agree with people who seem to think F!Aegon is Varys' end-game. I think Aegon plays a part but definitely not the one we think. Varys is simply using Illyrio and Aegon to his own benefit, we (the reader) don't truly know what Varys plan is.

On the other hand we don't fully know LF's end game either, I definitely don't think it's putting Sansa in Winterfell.

But ultimately, as well as being more experienced, I think Varys is simply better at playing the game, think about it, he is much better at hiding his true self then LF is.

LF is already showing his weaknesses (Cat & Sansa) and has much more info about him around then Varys. While Varys is a complete enigma in Westeros. No one knows his true origins or anything about him other than he has a spy network and that he's a eunuch. One could deduce, even without Sansa's POV that LF's weakpoint would be the Tully's, if I was in Westeros, I would certainly guess so, since his past regarding Cat and Brandon is public knowledge.

At the end of the day, both are great player, I simply think that Varys will last longer and is more experienced at playing it. He can definitely hide his true self better than LF who constantly lets his guard down around Sansa and Cat (unless this is a ploy, which I doubt).

[Booknerd2]

Varys is out and about now. Why do I feel he is watching everything and probably LF? Even with other goals in mind.

I think Varys may find out about Alayne/Sansa.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think by the time shadrich reports he ALREADY KNOWS

[Saeed]

I think both are nearly the same, both started from nothing and they were always successful in their plots

but in my opinion Littlefinger is a bit smarter than Varys

but then again you can't tell for sure because they never opposed with each other in any thing

[Booknerd2]

In KL, Varys would have wanted to know any vulnerable piece of personal info about LF to undermine him. Isn't he going to think it odd that he has a teenage daughter now. I just wonder how

many tabs he kept on LF and his personal life, involvement with women, etc.

Also, LF brought up Varys' being a eunach so much it got old after awhile. Actually. other characters brought it up too. Was LF taunting him because he knew it was a soft spot or does he think something else is up with Varys. Almost like he wasn't sure.

I think Varys in a eunach but I have seen theories where people think he isn't. Not sure how I feel about this.

[Mikken's Mark]

Varys. I don't think Littlefinger even knows what Littlefinger is doing

For some reason, I also think Varys is the more altruistic of the two. Neither of them are saints by any means, but between the two, Varys is better.

[The Sleeper]

I 'm not terribly impressed by either. Varys has devoted all this effort, time and resources to accomplish ... well nothing, really and LF's trade of his influential position in KL for a temporary title and an empty title seems to me a poor one. Besides I don't see bacckstabbing and opportunism as requiring particular intelligence.

[Mulled Wino]

Lf waaaay smarter. Imagine if he had Varys' resources.

[gobo]

I think this thread shows that we don't have enough informaiton, particularly about Varys, to make this determination. We know Littlefinger's weakness (Cat/Sansa), and we think we know his goals (wealth/power for himself). Varys tells us he serves the realm, and we think his goal is to put Aegon on the Iron Throne, but it's less clear that Aegon is his true goal. We don't know Varys's weakness, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

based on current iformation, i think Varys wins, but I think we know more (or at least believe more) about LF than we do about Varys right now.

[Booknerd2]

I thought of two questions regarding Littlefinger that I cannot answer.

1. If Sansa Stark was going to be killed in front of him...

a. He woudl be upset because he is losing his pawn in his current machinations

b. He would be upset because she is a young girl he is attracted to and harbors some type of feelings for

c. He woudl be upset because of issues regarding his issues/love or previous love for Cat

Bonus: Would he try and stop it?

2. If Littlefinger encountered Lady Stoneheart:..

a. He would be upset seeing what has happened to his Cat

b. He wouldn't care because a Stark is out of the way and Sansa has replaced her in his affections.

c. Just wouldn't care either way. His plans can still move forward

d. Another option?

I can't answer these and lean towards any of them at any given time trying to analyze this dude.

[gougef]

As the guy that caught Hannibal Lecter, point out that he was not smarter, that Lecter had weaknesses. Lecter was insane.

I think that LF is somewhat the same, a little crazy. Varys seems to all cold and calculating.

[ZeDisDeaD]

Littlefinger is smart, quick and clever.

Varys is wise, intelligent and strong minded.

It really depends where you look at it. LF always make do with what he got in any situation but Varys creates these situations.

I personally like Varys better because he is not doomed yet. (LF is IMO) No one fears him, no one sees him as a danger. I think thats why he survived the Sack of Kings Landing and thats why he is still in Small Council. On the other hand LF started to play big lately, and making himself a new enemies. Thats a mistake because we know power is a curious thing, its a trick and shadow on the wall. You don't need an army to be powerful. There is a storm coming for LF and we know Varys will keep paddling.

[Winterz]

Well until now I think it's safe to say the Littlefinger has been more predictable. From what I understood, he intended to raise his own name and house, in fact, he 'left' the "House Baelish" for "House Baelish of Harrenhal" so this somewhat proves his greedy character when he expects to create and bring this new House to greatness, maybe that's all the grand plan he has. He also lets his feelings interfere due to his thoughts about Catelyn and the now responsability he feels with helping Sansa. Ofc with Sansa as Lady of Winterfell and supposely last heir to House Stark and he pretty much controlling the Riverlands and the Vale, this leaves him in a very good and powerful position.

Varys, however so not predictable. I still believe he's outmost loyal to the Targaryens' cause. He does not let his feelings interfere in anyway as when he killed Kevan. He might've abandoned the game for now, but I'm sure he'll return stronger than ever. But anyways, I've got no idea what he really intends to accomplish. There's to note the fact that he's an Eunuch and most likely suffered from Slavery and all the negative aspects of it. He might have harsh actions sometimes but it seems that it's all for a less selfish cause than LF. I'm more of a Varys-fanboy than I might say for Littlefinger's.

At "smartness" I'd say they're both equals though like someone said before, Varys has a lot more experience.

[Booknerd2]

I agree that LF might have more issues mentally that Varys does not. A plus to Varys.

I also never expected Varys to have it in him regard to Kevan and I was so wrong about that. He may even be ballsier than LF do to that. We saw another facet of Varys. Forget the fluff,, powder, silks, and giggles.There are other established characters in the series that I am not sure would have done that either despite how tough and reckless they are. I have not seen LF do anything like that...yet. So I am leaning towards brains and now brawn with Varys.

[Quentyn the Blazed]

LFs plans have been more successful than Varys.

In the conversation with Ilyrio in aGoT, Varys says that war is happening faster than planned, and they must delay.

Meanwhile, LF was successfully pushing the realm into war ASAP

LF - 1 Varys - 0

It seems Varys has a more thought out, long term plan that depends on alot of variables.

LF likes to do unpredictable things and take advantage of the outcomes, with a general goal in mind.

Their opposing styles put LF on top with his unpredictable methods, ruining Varys well laid plans.

[Booknerd2]

I think though that Littlefinger undboubtedly is winning the battles but Varys may win the war.

[Victor227]

We'll never really know until the end I think. These aren't two characters that are conventionally predictable. They act, they backstab their friends and enemies alike. They have friends who don't know they're their friends, and enemies who aren't actually their enemies. They both live and breathe lies. Until the chips are finally down, we can't know for sure if Varys is on the Targs' side, or if Littlefinger is really blinding himself with Sansa.

We don't know their endgames, or hell, we don't even know if they're not actually working together for some greater purpose. Neither has ever really gotten in the way of the other in a meaningful way when you'd think the two smartest people in King's Landing would be out to ensure unfortunate accidents for one another, realizing they're too dangerous to play.

[Booknerd2]

Oh, I love the interactions with Varys and LF. The sizing one another up. Really, the only thing they can agree on. They appaeared to be nonchalant with each other while verbally hitting below the belt. Some of the greatest scenes/dialogue in the series. Very apparent that the underlying message to each other was "I am watching you," "I know your game", "One little slip, my friend..." and "Don't mess with me...or else."

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Varys. After re-reading the books , it becomes apparent that Varys has his hand in practically everything. Littlefinger is more predictable because at the core level, he is doing everything for himself. Varys is a much more complex character because he actually does everything for the realm. The fact that he was involved in the Aegon plot 15 years earlier is crazy. His knowledge of the tunnels in the red keep and how he can move around undetected is amazing, and the fact that he mystifies Tyrion just adds to the fact that he has his hand in everything that happens in Kings Landing and more.

[Booknerd2]

And a great theme. What happens in execution when ultimately you do things for yourself as opposed to doing things for something/someone else?

How far will you go?