sologdin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 isn't hard SF really just engineering porn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Oh, okay, so it's bad science. I just feel like the important distinction between hard/soft here doesn't lie in the accuracy of the science. Something can strive to be hard sf and fail due to having lousy science*, but that doesn't make it soft sf. It's like how writing a bad physics paper doesn't mean it comes out a sociology paper. *though, given that it is fiction and extrapolative and so on, I'm willing to cut slack there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 *though, given that it is fiction and extrapolative and so on, I'm willing to cut slack there.I can get behind that.Question - does the math and computer stuff in Stross "Laundry" series make that hard scifi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 To be clear I'm not qualified to say it's definitively bad science. IIRC there are quantum level processes that have been shown to be used by plants, which have marcoscopic results.So the book might be using existing results to extrapolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 To be consistent with a view (which i disagree with) of hard sf as only exploring cutting-edge physical sciences, wouldn't soft SF be about exploring cutting-edge theories of the sociological / psychological sciences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 wouldn't soft SF be about exploring cutting-edge theories of the sociological / psychological sciences?No, soft Sci-fi is about human interest stories in a fantastical setting where everything is hand-waved away as technology not magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 No, soft Sci-fi is about human interest stories in a fantastical setting where everything is hand-waved away as technology not magicThen hard SF is about human interest stories in a scientifically plausible setting where nothing is hand-waved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Doesn't necessarily have to be human interest, lot's of hard scifi are about the setting and its technology. The humans are vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 No, soft Sci-fi is about human interest stories in a fantastical setting where everything is hand-waved away as technology not magicNope, that's Space Opera or Planetary Romance or just...whatever. To get the cachet of Soft SF it has to have a sociological/psychological/economic theory aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 isn't hard SF really just engineering porn?I tend to think so and engineering porn is pretty dull (or well, not my kink at least).I mean sure, you can sort of appreciate the thought that went into the more correct physics and that effort went into avoiding hand waving, but eh...it's just not hugely exciting or thought provoking most of the time***.The only ones I could stand were "The Quantum Thief" and Alistair Reynolds' "Revelelation Space" and I am not even sure they count. Sure, not much hand waving on the science front perhaps, but I'm not sure they only tried to say things about technology and science so that disqualifies them. I mean Reynolds' "Chasm City" is set in the same universe as "Revelation Space" but is far more character based, so I always felt it fell far more into the "soft SF" corner.***I was quite fascinated with Reynolds' technology for near light speed travel tho and how he explained it and the effects it had on the space travellers despite the technological advances to counter those effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'd rather have big ideas explored than a bunch of shit about how space men take a space poop at FTL. I just don't care about that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I just don't care about that shit.You'd care if a space turd got loose and was orbiting your head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 You'd care if a space turd got loose and was orbiting your head...Especially if i had the runs. Then i'd have the chocolate milky way.What? Too much? Sorry, just had a weekend of golf with some friends and i'm still in say the sickest shit you can mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 You have no idea how much my opinion of you just dropped. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 You have no idea how much my opinion of you just dropped. :crying:Hey, i appologized, didn't I? You can't have 54 rounds of golf in three days with 6 guys, like 8 pounds of steak and chicken, 36 bottles of corona and an assortment of hard booze and not go a little crazy. I had to come home to my wife and cat just to feel human again. I'm going to hide in my office and read Shogun and not talk about golf or eat any fucking meat for days.My conclusion: men are fucking pigs of the highest order. I should take a bubble bath just to decontaminate. Frick, my stag was more tame. For that i just had a bunch of guys together playing Settlers of Catan and drinking .We were all in bed by 1:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Dude, it wasn't the swearing. It was the golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Or, y'know, a coiler could make you look like Saturn.True nerds LOVE poop jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'm not that into poop jokes. But I also realized what a prude I was after I heard about some of the weirder porn out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 This thread has gotten weird. Probably because there's not really much you can say about Hard SF without getting into specifics about particular books, other than "it can be boring because the stories are often more focused on the concepts than the characters" and arguments about what exactly Hard SF is in terms of definitions. So, despite my dubious belief that things like anti-matter powered starships will ever be practical engineering-wise, I'll go with the "doesn't violate the laws of physics as far as we know them now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 This thread has gotten weird. Probably because there's not really much you can say about Hard SF without getting into specifics about particular books, other than "it can be boring because the stories are often more focused on the concepts than the characters" and arguments about what exactly Hard SF is in terms of definitions.So, despite my dubious belief that things like anti-matter powered starships will ever be practical engineering-wise, I'll go with the "doesn't violate the laws of physics as far as we know them now."And even this isn't true. When I read a Baxter book, I don't do it for good characters, I do it to see how much he can wank the Xeelee.Just saying, it's entertaining on it's own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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