So you all think Jamie is the Valonquar...

[Jon Mark Selmy]

I could see him killing her out of anger in that situation (although I think that situation is extremely unlikely), but I think he would just kill her with his sword, not strangle her. And it wouldn't have anything to do with his "duty" as a member of the Kingsguard to "avenge his king." It would have to do with pure rage. Another person would likely kill her with a sword as well, or arrest her and have her executed.

I never said 'strangle'. Other posters said it. And yeah, believe he would use a sword, too. And I don't think this is that unlikelly. Cersei is borderline mad, you know? Also, this scenario was just an extreme example. I don't think Cersei would use a knife or kill him out of nothing. She would only do it if the city were under siege or if she became fully mad for some reason.

Here's another scenario for you: The city is under Stannis's siege. The awfull, awfull goverment of Cersei made people (including lords) angry enough to support him (or Dany came with her dragons, or whatever...). Cersei sees she, Tommen and Jamie will be probably killed. So, she decides to just put some poison on the wine and kill Tommen, to spare him. Tommen dies imediately and Jaime realizes a minute later what happened. Then, he kills Cersei.

My point is: whatever happens, it will be Cersei doing something stupid enough to kill Tommen directly or indirectly, at a point that Myrcella will be already dead. Then Jaime finds out and kills her.

[Jolene Brown]

I never said 'strangle'. Other posters said it. And yeah, believe he would use a sword, too. And I don't think this is that unlikelly. Cersei is borderline mad, you know? Also, this scenario was just an extreme example. I don't think Cersei would use a knife or kill him out of nothing. She would only do it if the city were under siege or if she became fully mad for some reason.

Right, the prophecy says strangle - put his hands around your neck and choke the life out of you. For some reason, I think this part is literal - I don't even think it means that "strangler' poison. If so I think it would have used the word strangle. So, for me, the valonquar has to be someone who will choke Cercei physically with his hands. I know a lot of people don't think that it has to be that way, but I do. That's why it's hard for me to see Jaime doing it.

I would actually love it if it doesn't happen at all, but sadly, I think it will, which is annoying, because it's an irritating plotline, in my opinion.

[Kanon]

I prefer the Stannis being the valonqar theory much more. It would be even better if he also saved Margaery and Loras from dying during Cersei's plot,. If that happened he would be 100% forgiven in my eyes

Also, Jaime dosent have a hand anymore... can he choke Cersei to death with just 1 hand?

[Jolene Brown]

I prefer the Stannis being the valonqar theory much more. It would be even better if he also saved Margaery and Loras from dying during Cersei's plot,. If that happened he would be 100% forgiven in my eyes

Also, Jaime dosent have a hand anymore... can he choke Cersei to death with just 1 hand?

He threatens to choke Qyburn if Qyburn cuts off his whole arm instead of just cleaning away the rotted flesh and Qyburn seems to believe he can do it. I think it's physically possible, it seems like the issue would be more with the prophecy specifically saying "hands." I also think the use of "his hands" in the prophecy precludes some of the creative Arya interpretations as well (I have other issues with these too).

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Right, the prophecy says strangle - put his hands around your neck and choke the life out of you. For some reason, I think this part is literal - I don't even think it means that "strangler' poison. If so I think it would have used the word strangle. So, for me, the valonquar has to be someone who will choke Cercei physically with his hands. I know a lot of people don't think that it has to be that way, but I do. That's why it's hard for me to see Jaime doing it.

I see. The 'strangle' part is something against Jaime being valonqar... I'll give you that. It's not very pratical to strangle people when you only have 1 hand... if it's littleral, that is.

[starki]

I don't. Could be Jamie, could be Tyrion, could be any "valonquar" (little brother right?) in the story.

[ashagreyjoys]

I love this theory so much. But mostly because I don't think it's going to be like Tyrion's reaction to Shae at all (if it is I won't be touching the book for a while). If Cersei has the capacity to grab on to power again it will be a catastrophic mess. And if he kills her it would just be putting down a rabid dog at that point. But right now is she able? Kevan described as"subdued and demure". If she was going to do something it would be just as big, if not worse. The only difference being is that she has even less autonomy than before. And, she's more 'demure and subdued'. Of course it won't succeed because we've seen how Cersei's plans have worked thus far and we know Cersei. I've taken Cersei post walk/epilogue as her being depressed. Not something she needs in her situation with her questionable mental state all around. All the more reason it would fail.

I don't know I haven't had time to see it through. I just can't see Jaime reacting in that kind of rage over Cersei cheating on him. Tyrion? Transparently.

[Jamie Lannister]

Jaime is just as obvious as Tyrion; it takes all of one moment's thought to realize he's the younger sibling. It's drilled into us enough times over the novels.

I think the loophole being extended to mean "younger brother" in a broader sense is more likely.

[King of the Road]

To be honest, it's so obviously not going to be Tyrion, it wouldn't surprise me if GRRM plays a double bluff and it actually IS Tyrion.

[Jolene Brown]

Jaime is just as obvious as Tyrion; it takes all of one moment's thought to realize he's the younger sibling. It's drilled into us enough times over the novels.

I definitely agree with this, but I think the irony may be intended to be that it's not obvious to Cercei. She never thinks about it for even a second.

God, I just really don't want it to be Jaime. That would annoy me so much.

[Ciglon]

I think it fits with Jaime's complex with being morally righteous in a hypocritical world.

Jaime always believes he's in the right, he's willing to forsake vows to do what he believes is morally right (kill Aerys), he's willing to forsake vows sometimes just because he wants to, or the "it's harmless" mentality (sex with Cersei even though he's a KG), and is capable of cruel actions as long as it benefits him or what he things is best (crippling Bran).

I think he will realize Cersei is really very bad for the Seven Kingdoms, he may even suspect her of having Kevan & Pycelle killed, then when he finds out about Robert Strong, and the Tyrell alliance shatters with her in the middle of it all?

I think it's ironic that when she was really evil and in a position of power Jaime did nothing all those years, and then now when she's practically done for, not really doing anything, "learned her place" as she put it, Jaime will think "hmm, she's responsible for all this, I have to stop her" and will end up killing her now, when she's pretty much harmless without power.

ETA: I won't be sad to see her go, but it will be quite the turnaround for GRRM to show us how Cersei is just a harmless powerless woman who's as paranoid as the Mad king by the time Jaime decides he has to kill her, and ultimately will make it seem slightly unfulfilling in a way. Her story really parallels that of Mad King Aerys II in a couple ways, and Jaime killing her (whom he is sworn to protect yet again) will be the final mirroring act in her story.

ETA2: Also, with regards to the strangling thing, maybe it's in a really secluded/intimate setting where this happens? Perhaps Jaime is conflicted when he confronts Cersei and since all Cersei knows how to do in these cases is seduce men she will try to do just that (or beg him or something, but not get angry like before), which is the point at which Jaime decides he needs to kill this woman.

Strangling, as cruel a way as it is to kill someone, is also a very intimate way to kill a person. You have to be vulnerable to allow someone to grab your neck, and Cersei is extremely vulnerable at this point in the series. In fact, she's helpless.

[Jolene Brown]

If people think Cercei has really "learned her place," and that her posture of submissiveness as seen by Kevan is real, they have one hell of another thing coming in TWOW. She may take a different approach, but she's not going to give up on gaining and keeping power. Even more than that, she is going to be out for BLOOD.

[Ciglon]

If people think Cercei has really "learned her place," and that her posture of submissiveness as seen by Kevan is real, they have one hell of another thing coming in TWOW. She may take a different approach, but she's not going to give up on gaining and keeping power. Even more than that, she is going to be out for BLOOD.

I don't doubt that she WANTS to keep gaining/keeping power, but how? No one takes her seriously, she has power only over Qyburn and Taena Merryweather (whom no one else takes seriously) all her plans have fallen to pieces, no one is loyal to her, all that remains for her to do is die and put an end to the Lannister legacy of being in charge.

[Jolene Brown]

I don't doubt that she WANTS to keep gaining/keeping power, but how? No one takes her seriously, she has power only over Qyburn and Taena Merryweather (whom no one else takes seriously) all her plans have fallen to pieces, no one is loyal to her, all that remains for her to do is die and put an end to the Lannister legacy of being in charge.

Those are definitely good points; I just think King's Landing is going to be in chaos after Kevan and Pycelle's murders are discovered and we may be surprised by her ability to take advantage of the situation. I mostly think this because as I remember it, Varys as much as says that he is murdering Kevan because he wants Cercei to have power again, to create chaos, so to me, that's a hint from GRRM as to what's going to happen next.

[Ciglon]

Those are definitely good points; I just think King's Landing is going to be in chaos after Kevan and Pycelle's murders are discovered and we may be surprised by her ability to take advantage of the situation. I mostly think this because as I remember it, Varys as much as says that he is murdering Kevan because he wants Cercei to have power again, to create chaos, so to me, that's a hint from GRRM as to what's going to happen next.

I see, I think she will definitely prove a pivotal role when she blames the Tyrells (she may even be more vocal about her suspicions about their helping Tyrion escape). It'll break her apart from the Tyrells, she'll break apart from Dorne, but I don't think that she will last very long into TWOW. After she burns all the bridges her father worked so hard to build her role will pretty much be done and that's why I think she'll die next book pretty soon.

Plus, if Jaime survives the BwB plot going on, he needs something to do as well, which fits with this IMO. Unless Jaime gets sidetracked or killed then you may be right and she will go on for longer (gods forbid). I just really wanna see her die :devil:

[Jolene Brown]

I have a weird feeling, perhaps unfounded, that we are not going to see Jaime in King's Landing for a long, long time. I do think he'll survive the BWB thing, but I think he is going to be off somewhere doing something else. My theory is that he is going North, but it's not founded on anything other than a gut feeling. I actually would prefer that he go to King's Landing and take over the leadership of his family, because I think Tommen will need him. We'll see - his storyline could go basically ANYWHERE at this point, which is sort of frustrating, because it fills me with doubt and uncertainty. Cercei's is actually pretty wide open too. But I don't see her dying before the last book - re-reading AGOT makes it clear that she was introduced as a major villain from the very early chapters, and I don't think that GRRM is going to get rid of her until close to the end.

[Every]

"the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you"

I would argue that the reason this passage is often interpreted as literal is the description of Cersei's throat as 'pale white', reinforcing the idea that her physical throat is being referenced rather than being a metaphor for a weak spot. We know that Maggy likes to add poetic flourishes to her prophecies - is 'pale white' enough of a reason to assume it is literal, especially coming right on the heels of the (presumably metaphorical) 'your tears have drowned you'?

[thewingedwolf]

I think its Varys

[MsLibby]

"the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you"

I would argue that the reason this passage is often interpreted as literal is the description of Cersei's throat as 'pale white', reinforcing the idea that her physical throat is being referenced rather than being a metaphor for a weak spot. We know that Maggy likes to add poetic flourishes to her prophecies - is 'pale white' enough of a reason to assume it is literal, especially coming right on the heels of the (presumably metaphorical) 'your tears have drowned you'?

Maybe it means she will hang for her crimes because of a "little brother".

[David C. Hunter]

He doesn't necessarily needs to die after killing Cersei (just saying).

I know, but it just seems like a cheesy arc for Jaime, is all.