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mudcrab

The Crownlands

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What were they like before the targaryen conquest? What were they called? Or were they just split off of the riverlands, stormlands, etc.?

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I think they were part of the Stormlands. The Storm Kings once ruled all the way up to the Neck. But it could also have fallen to Harren the Black in turn, when he conquered the Riverlands.

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I understood it like the Crownlands were mostly just swamps and forests and pretty much both undeveloped and sparsely populated, kind of like that penninsula where the Crabbs have their keep. I wouldn't be suprised if the Wendwood at that time covered much of what is today the Crownlands.

On another note it would be very interesting to get to see a bit more of the Crownland Houses and what they think about the change of dynasty from the Targaryens to the Baratheons.

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I understood it like the Crownlands were mostly just swamps and forests and pretty much both undeveloped and sparsely populated, kind of like that penninsula where the Crabbs have their keep. I wouldn't be suprised if the Wendwood at that time covered much of what is today the Crownlands.

On another note it would be very interesting to get to see a bit more of the Crownland Houses and what they think about the change of dynasty from the Targaryens to the Baratheons.

So are you saying Aegon flew his Dragons over the swamps and forest and burned it all away?

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So are you saying Aegon flew his Dragons over the swamps and forest and burned it all away?

No, but I think that since Aegon moved his capital to the area people moved to it and settled. Then over some time they drained the swamps and cleared the forests to create the Crownlands we know today. For example King's Landing didn't start as a city at all from the start but grew into it.

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No, but I think that since Aegon moved his capital to the area people moved to it and settled. Then over some time they drained the swamps and cleared the forests to create the Crownlands we know today. For example King's Landing didn't start as a city at all from the start but grew into it.

Why would he settle in a wild, inhospitable area rather than take over an existing settled land? The crownlands seem very fertile to me. I don't see why areas far less attractive would have been settled, but the Crownlands left largely uninhabited.

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Why would he settle in a wild, inhospitable area rather than take over an existing settled land? The crownlands seem very fertile to me. I don't see why areas far less attractive would have been settled, but the Crownlands left largely uninhabited.

Well I can only guess but some things that I can imagine would be that with the wars recurring wars the population was kept relatively constant before the Targaryens came, and then there wasn't much need to find new lands. After the Targaryens population grew and the people had to move to the lands that weren't already taken. Also remember that Aegon's policy seems to have been to keep things as they were. Its much better then to settle and develop new lands and raise new lords loyal to only you than to take from someone else. I agree that there were already stuff there to some degree, like Duskendale, but I question if there were alot of it. After all if Aegon didn't want to build new things he could've moved the capital to Oldtown instead of building an entirely new city.

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Well I can only guess but some things that I can imagine would be that with the wars recurring wars the population was kept relatively constant before the Targaryens came, and then there wasn't much need to find new lands. After the Targaryens population grew and the people had to move to the lands that weren't already taken. Also remember that Aegon's policy seems to have been to keep things as they were. Its much better then to settle and develop new lands and raise new lords loyal to only you than to take from someone else. I agree that there were already stuff there to some degree, like Duskendale, but I question if there were alot of it. After all if Aegon didn't want to build new things he could've moved the capital to Oldtown instead of building an entirely new city.

The Crownlands are obviously more populated today, due to the capital of the Realm drawing people there. There is an economy there that didn't exist before King's Landing was built.

But rather than unpopulated wilderness, I reckon it was just rural countryside, dotted with villages and towns pretty much like the rest of the Riverlands are.

All that changed is that King's Landing was built, which transformed it into the economic hub of Westeros.

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The Crownlands are obviously more populated today, due to the capital of the Realm drawing people there. There is an economy there that didn't exist before King's Landing was built.

But rather than unpopulated wilderness, I reckon it was just rural countryside, dotted with villages and towns pretty much like the rest of the Riverlands are.

All that changed is that King's Landing was built, which transformed it into the economic hub of Westeros.

Could be, but I think that the raising of towns and general development of the area was a much later process than in the Riverlands.

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Could be, but I think that the raising of towns and general development of the area was a much later process than in the Riverlands.

I confess I don't really have a clue on this. I just go on gut feel.

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Considering the constant warfare between the Storm Kings, the Kings of the Rivers and Hills, the Ironborn and the houses from the Crackclaw, and also the lack of any great local power, it guess the now called Crownlands were less populated than today. Also, considering the east cost of the South and its forests (the King's Wood and the Rainwood, and Crackclaw's pine barrens) the Crownlands were more forested than today, but not wild, specially near Duskendale and Maidenpool.

However, there were local powers. Dick Crabb told Brienne about how House Mooton (of Maidenpool), House Darklyn (of Duskendale) and House Celtigar (of Claw Isle) tried to impose themselves on Crackclaw point. So Mooton, Darklyn and Celtigar were local kings, even if later they were engulfed by the Storm Kings or any other power.

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The Crownlands were disputed territories before Aegon's conquest. The Storm Kings probably conquered them, but it changed hands and was not a permanent part of any kingdom. I'm sure the Reach and the Westerlands also fought over them.

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The Crownlands were disputed territories before Aegon's conquest. The Storm Kings probably conquered them, but it changed hands and was not a permanent part of any kingdom. I'm sure the Reach and the Westerlands also fought over them.

We can't be sure the Westerlands fought over them, since they would have to cross the Riverlands before any campaign. I think the Reach, the Storm Kings and houses of pretty kings or lords (Celtigar, Darklyn and Mooton) fought over them, but not the Kings of the Rock.

The Westerlands had to deal with both the Ironborn (even before House Hoare conquest of the Riverlands, I dare say) and the Gardener Kings of the Reach. And we know the Reach and the Westerlands warred. The portions of the Reach around Goldengrove were the North March, under House Osgrey. One of the Osgreys killed a King of the Rock, while the current Gardener was gone to deal with the Storm King.

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It is stated that Harren the Black ruled to the Blackwater Rush, so north of the Blackwater Rush, the Crownlands were part of the Kingdom of The Iron Isles and the Riverlands, and south of the Blackwater Rush, the Crownlands were part of the Stormlands.

When Aegon first landed where what would become King's Landing, it was a fishing village.

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The Crownlands were disputed territories before Aegon's conquest. The Storm Kings probably conquered them, but it changed hands and was not a permanent part of any kingdom. I'm sure the Reach and the Westerlands also fought over them.

I aggree like the disputed lands of essos, only in westeros.

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So are you saying Aegon flew his Dragons over the swamps and forest and burned it all away?

Yes the Targs practised slash and burn agricultural, however with Dragons there was no need slash just burn and plant.

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I aggree like the disputed lands of essos, only in westeros.

Well, actually that applies to the Riverlands as well- they were an independent kingdom, part of the Stormlands and the Iron Islands, and probably every kingdom has held at least a part of it at some point.

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Well, actually that applies to the Riverlands as well- they were an independent kingdom, part of the Stormlands and the Iron Islands, and probably every kingdom has held at least a part of it at some point.

The Riverlands are kind of like Cersei, everyone's been there.

In AGoT Appendix, it said Harren ruled from the Neck to the Blackwater Rush so the river was probably the border between Harren's kingdom and the Stormlands.

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The Riverlands are kind of like Cersei, everyone's been in there.

That's quite some exaggeration I would think. Cersei has had fewer lovers than most modern day women, like 5 or 6, not much at all to be honest.

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That's quite some exaggeration I would think. Cersei has had fewer lovers than most modern day women, like 5 or 6, not much at all to be honest.

Hehe. That post provoked such an instant reaction from me, which I had to retype half a dozen times before just letting it go.

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