Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 In the sample chapter for the new book we see Stannis sending one of his men to use his new found Iron Bank money to hire sellswords. He tells him to hire 20,000 men and if possible to start with the Golden company.How effective would sellswords from across the narrow sea be in the Westeros landscape?How many sellswords can Stannis realistically expect to bring? He says to start with 20,000, how many more could he get if the conflict wears on?How many sellswords of real value are there to be had in Essos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 IMO he gets no sellswords, at the moment Stannis is the weakest of the "Kings" and Sellswords only fights when they can win, Dany permanetly state she want back her throne and she has dragons, I doubt any sellsword would be stupid enough to fight her and the Tyrell/Lannister "alliance" can outspent Stannis, the Iron bank won't lend Stannis to much money if there is a chance to lose all after he lost the war or die during a battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sellswords fight when they get paid. Any company in Essos will be very familiar with the deep pockets and reliability of the Iron Bank. I don't think GRRM would have a mysterious figure from the Bank travel to the Wall and navigate to the the middle of a frozen forest to find Stannis and not have that storyline go anywhere. Someones gonna get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 This should be in the Winds of Winter forum, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I doubt any sellsword would be stupid enough to fight her and the Tyrell/Lannister "alliance" can outspent Stannis, the Iron bank won't lend Stannis to much money if there is a chance to lose all after he lost the war or die during a battleI disagree.The debts of the Iron Throne to the Iron Bank are so substantial (it's basically a 15 year run up debt from Robert's reign) it's unlikely that any expenditure Stannis could make would match the debt. By helping Stannis, they're making an investment in a long term. Not to mention, many lords in Westeros are now being denied loans and having their debts called by the Iron Bank because of Cersei's intransigence, which plays into Stannis' hands. There's a reason Jon Snow thinks that Stannis has likely just won his war when Tycho Nestoris visits; he's just acquired almost limitless financial backing.In addition, the Iron Bank is going to make an issue of supporting Stannis on principle's sake, because they'll want to make an example of Cersei for thinking she didn't have to pay her debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sellswords fight when they get paid. Any company in Essos will be very familiar with the deep pockets and reliability of the Iron Bank. I don't think GRRM would have a mysterious figure from the Bank travel to the Wall and navigate to the the middle of a frozen forest to find Stannis and not have that storyline go anywhere. Someones gonna get paid.Yes but they don't let themselfe killed for the money, they run away, often state in the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yes but they don't let themselfe killed for the money, they run away, often state in the booksSellswords are notorious for switching sides, not running away. And in Westeros, only Stannis will have the coin to pay them; the Crown is terribly in debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 This should be in the Winds of Winter forum, I think.Meh, does it really make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I disagree.The debts of the Iron Throne to the Iron Bank are so substantial (it's basically a 15 year run up debt from Robert's reign) it's unlikely that any expenditure Stannis could make would match the debt. By helping Stannis, they're making an investment in a long term. Not to mention, many lords in Westeros are now being denied loans and having their debts called by the Iron Bank because of Cersei's intransigence, which plays into Stannis' hands. There's a reason Jon Snow thinks that Stannis has likely just won his war when Tycho Nestoris visits; he's just acquired almost limitless financial backing.In addition, the Iron Bank is going to make an issue of supporting Stannis on principle's sake, because they'll want to make an example of Cersei for thinking she didn't have to pay her debt.How much get a single sellsword? If an average Sellsword get 100 golddragons for fighting for Stannis 20000 men get 2 million but I think they get more likely something around 500-1000, so up to 20 million golddragons, the debts are less then 3 million golddragons, not a good investment when you can send a FM to kill Cersei to make your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 IMO he gets no sellswords, at the moment Stannis is the weakest of the "Kings" and Sellswords only fights when they can win, Dany permanetly state she want back her throne and she has dragons, I doubt any sellsword would be stupid enough to fight her and the Tyrell/Lannister "alliance" can outspent Stannis, the Iron bank won't lend Stannis to much money if there is a chance to lose all after he lost the war or die during a battleI think the Bravvosi will do a lot to make sure this does not happen. The Bravvosi hate dragons, Dany and her dragons are more vunerable than one would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sellswords are notorious for switching sides, not running away. And in Westeros, only Stannis will have the coin to pay them; the Crown is terribly in debt.They also switching sides when they can't win. Run away or switch sides are better options the die for money you have no use for when you are dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think the Bravvosi will do a lot to make sure this does not happen. The Bravvosi hate dragons, Dany and her dragons are more vunerable than one would think.Do you think they send an army against Dany, IMO they will send only a few FM to finish her and her dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 IMO he gets no sellswords, at the moment Stannis is the weakest of the "Kings" and Sellswords only fights when they can win, Dany permanetly state she want back her throne and she has dragons, I doubt any sellsword would be stupid enough to fight her and the Tyrell/Lannister "alliance" can outspent Stannis, the Iron bank won't lend Stannis to much money if there is a chance to lose all after he lost the war or die during a battleDany has Dragons in Mereen and several sellsword companies have no problem fighting her there , the Second Sons even switched sides against her. Sellswords will go where the money is good and they know that if things go bad they can always switch sides or run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 How much get a single sellsword? If an average Sellsword get 100 golddragons for fighting for Stannis 20000 men get 2 million but I think they get more likely something around 500-1000, so up to 20 million golddragons, the debts are less then 3 million golddragons, not a good investment when you can send a FM to kill Cersei to make your pointYou're blowing the cost of sellswords waaaaay out there. The rank and file fight at fixed rates, and their commanders get the lion's share. It only costs Tyrion about 100,000 gold dragons to buy Brown Ben Plumm and the Second Sons in ADWD, and that's an entire company, so it's not going to cost Stannis 20 million dragons to hire a few companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 They also switching sides when they can't win. Run away or switch sides are better options the die for money you have no use for when you are deadNo, they're mercenaries, they switch sides when the other side gives them the sweeter offer.In Westeros that isn't going to happen because there's no culture of mercenary companies (in fact they're reviled) and because the Iron Throne is broke, so they have to pay in promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yes but they don't let themselfe killed for the money, they run away, often state in the booksWe're not talking about them being sent into a fight to the death against an army of Others, just fighting in a war. Its not as if swellswords only fight for the side that is undoubtedly going to win- if someone was undoubtedly going to win, they woulnd't need to pay swellswords. If the Tyrells/Lannisters were coming at Stannis with 80,000 men and Casterly Rock was offering them gold I have no doubt that they would switch sides, but that alliance is on shaky ground, Aegon has landed in the south, Ironborn raid the reach and Westeros is still in chaos. If Stannis wins the allegiance of the North and can gain even half the swellswords he wants, he will be in a poweful position.A common mercenary making 100 dragons sounds absurd. Its hard to say what Westerosi currency is worth, but a German mercenary in the late medieval ages would have made about 4 florins a month, not quite twice what a common day laborer would make.To put it simply, The Iron Bank undestands how to use their money, and obviously they understand the swellswords of Essos better than you or I do. If they didn't think Stannis had a chance to make good use of their money, they wouldn't be giving it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think the Bravvosi will do a lot to make sure this does not happen. The Bravvosi hate dragons, Dany and her dragons are more vunerable than one would think.This is true, but the Bravvosi also hate slavery, as does Dany.How much get a single sellsword? If an average Sellsword get 100 golddragons for fighting for Stannis 20000 men get 2 million but I think they get more likely something around 500-1000, so up to 20 million golddragons, the debts are less then 3 million golddragons, not a good investment when you can send a FM to kill Cersei to make your pointI think 100 Dragons is alot. When Tyrion signs the book for the second sons he gives the sgt's 100 dragons, I doubt Stannis would pay a commen soldier what a Lannister pays an officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 To put it simply, The Iron Bank undestands how to use their money, and obviously they understand the swellswords of Essos better than you or I do. If they didn't think Stannis had a chance to make good use of their money, they wouldn't be giving it to him.In a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 This is true, but the Bravvosi also hate slavery, as does Dany.Dany's dragons are likely to far outlive her, given they live for centuries, and she's proven herself pretty terrible at controlling them. Maybe they'll figure it's for the greater good they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 No, they're mercenaries, they switch sides when the other side gives them the sweeter offer.In Westeros that isn't going to happen because there's no culture of mercenary companies (in fact they're reviled) and because the Iron Throne is broke, so they have to pay in promises.To survive isn't a sweeter offer? Stannis homebase is the wall, Essos has a mediterranean clima and the sellswords would have to fight during the winter under extreme conditions without a good support base, how many of them would survive, even if Stannis wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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