danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 To survive isn't a sweeter offer? Stannis homebase is the wall, Essos has a mediterranean clima and the sellswords would have to fight during the winter under extreme conditions without a good support base, how many of them would survive, even if Stannis wins?Wait, so who are they going to defect to? General Winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 not a good investment when you can send a FM to kill Cersei to make your pointActually, we flat out know that this isn't true. When the Small Council discusses assassinating Dany, Littlefinger says that they could hire an entire army of swellswords for half the price of hiring a FM to kill a merchant, and that it would be much more for a princess. Imagine what it would cost for the Queen Regent of Westeros.The FMs are more of a religious order than a business. If hiring FMs was a good option for the Bank they would have been doing it thoughout their existence, rather than developing a reputation for supporting rival claiants to those who default on loans. The FMs don't charge a flat rate for assassinations. We know that the price is always dear, and that it scales according to both the means of the person who wants an assassinatiom and the security/prominence of the target.We've heard of people paying with the lives of their children or with their own lives. Its not about psaying a certain amount of gold, its about making a great sacrifice depending on your means. The Iron Bank has big ass means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Wait, so who are they going to defect to? General Winter?The folks in the warm or at least more liveable south Stannis wants to fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 To survive isn't a sweeter offer? Stannis homebase is the wall, Essos has a mediterranean clima and the sellswords would have to fight during the winter under extreme conditions without a good support base, how many of them would survive, even if Stannis wins?So then has the Iron Bank suddenly turned stupid? Is Tycho Nestoris a rouge banker playing fast and loose with his cash? If they didn't think Stannis could use their money to gain a position where he could eventually pay Westeros's debts, why are they giving him money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The folks in the warm or at least more liveable south Stannis wants to fightErr, how are they getting from Eastwatch to the South?Also, given it's snowing in King's Landing, how is that more acceptable to the delicate sellsword sensibilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So then has the Iron Bank suddenly turned stupid? Is Tycho Nestoris a rouge banker playing fast and loose with his cash? If they didn't think Stannis could use their money to gain a position where he could eventually pay Westeros's debts, why are they giving him money?Stannis can bribes the lords of westeros with the money or gain the support of the smallfolk, hireing Sellswords isn't the only chance he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Err, how are they getting from Eastwatch to the South?Also, given it's snowing in King's Landing, how is that more acceptable to the delicate sellsword sensabilities?How did they get to Eastwatch? And the winters in the north are much harder than the winter in the south, unless the long night approche then I would leave Westeros as fast as I could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 How did they get to Eastwatch?You think the Braavosi ships are going to take them south to fight for the people who are refusing to pay their debt to the Iron Bank?I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous and convoluted this whole thing is. The sellswords from Braavos get to Westeros. Then suddenly, they decide it's in their interests instead to go south and fight for the Iron Throne despite the fact that's going to guarantee they don't get paid by the Iron Bank, and that the Iron Throne can't possibly pay them.It seems you're just cherry picking logical motivations here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You think the Braavosi ships are going to take them south to fight for the people who are refusing to pay their debt to the Iron Bank?I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous and convoluted this whole thing is. The sellswords from Braavos get to Westeros. They find it cold, and then suddenly, they decide it's in their interests instead to go south and fight for the Iron Throne despite the fact that's going to guarantee they don't get paid by the Iorn Bank.It seems you're just cherry picking logical motivations here.I think they have their own ships, or they transported by free captains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think they have their own ships, or they transported by free captainsThey haven't been bloody hired yet!Braavosi ships ferried across Tycho Nestoris to take word to Stannis, do you really think the Iron Bank is going to outsource something as important as the military forces transporation to satisfy its debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Stannis can bribes the lords of westeros with the money or gain the support of the smallfolk, hireing Sellswords isn't the only chance he hasTycho is traveling with Justin Massey who is heading to Braavos to start gathering sellswords. He know's whats going on. If he thought this would be a waste of Iron Bank funds, don't you think he would have said something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Tycho is traveling with Justin Massey who is heading to Braavos to start gathering sellswords. He know's whats going on. If he thought this would be a waste of Iron Bank funds, don't you think he would have said something?Exactly. The Iron Bank has a very fixed interest in making sure that Stannis use of funds is effective in gaining the Iron Throne.They're not going to let Massey hire a bunch of fools who get cold feet the second they arrive at Eastwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 With the Iron Bank opening up its' coffers Stannis won't have any trouble finding sellswords. If Martin means for him to get the swords it isn't hard to conjure up the gold required or conjure up a few more sellsword companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_ Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 How long should we expect it to take for Massey to buy these sellswords and make his way back across the sea with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbandazi Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 By the time those sellswords have arrived, Stannis will have a larger army than he has now. Once he defeats the Boltons most of the North will join him and possibly also wildlings from Jon Snow. Than once he enters the Riverlands to march on the Twins and Riverrun, many Riverlords will switch sides + the Vale may join him if Sansa comes to power there and will try to help him defeat the Lannisters (especially if he brings the Starks back to Winterfell and the Tullys back to Riverrun) and then the sellswords arrive...Now Stannis' current army is small, but his enemies armies are also not what they were. The Lannisters lost most of their forces during the war and now the Tyrells and Lannisters may both get into a war witht he Faith and with each other + the Reach v Ironmen, and than the Dorne and Stormlands might join Aegon and even more Lannister and Tyrell men will die, so once STannis reaches there they won't have such numercial advantage. In fact, if he get's 20,000 sellswords right now he'll be in a pretty good position too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Do you think they send an army against Dany, IMO they will send only a few FM to finish her and her dragonsIf they wanted to get rid of her thats what I would think they would do. An army against dragons stands very little chance, but a faceless man can kill her without anyone being able to stop them. Poisoning the dragons seems to be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 How much get a single sellsword? If an average Sellsword get 100 golddragons for fighting for Stannis 20000 men get 2 million but I think they get more likely something around 500-1000, so up to 20 million golddragons, the debts are less then 3 million golddragons, not a good investment when you can send a FM to kill Cersei to make your pointI think people are right, 100 dragons is way too much. I think it was mentioned that most people will never see a gold dragon in their lifetime.Cant most of the common folk live off of something ridicuously small like 4 dragons a year or something? I may be confusing that with medevial England, not sure.Kevan mentioned that he had enough gold to hire sellswords to threaten Cersei with, not 20,000 but enough that Cersei would pause before making him an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Stannis can bribes the lords of westeros with the money or gain the support of the smallfolk, hireing Sellswords isn't the only chance he hasI wonder which Lords would be open to bribes? Powerful houses from the Westerlands perhaps? They wont follow Cersei now that Kevan and Tywin are gone. Yohnwood? They have always wanted the Martells dead and the Dornish are traditionally snakes. Tarly? he has always followed his liege lord but he does seem awfully power hungry lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I wonder which Lords would be open to bribes? Powerful houses from the Westerlands perhaps? They wont follow Cersei now that Kevan and Tywin are gone. Yohnwood? They have always wanted the Martells dead and the Dornish are traditionally snakes. Tarly? he has always followed his liege lord but he does seem awfully power hungry lately.The lords who are indebt to the Iron bank , the lords of the rivelands whos lands are destroyed, the lords in the north who can't feed their men through the winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Bribery would be an interesting route for Stannis to go. I think it possible given I belief we've got a quote in COTK (I believe) about Stannis being too straight-laced\honorable to stoop to bribery. He's certainly playing the game better. Maybe that would include bribery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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