Stannis' Sellswords? (Possible Spoilers)

[Batman]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but my points was that in aDwD did Tyrion hear that the slavers were trying to hire all the sellswords they could find? That is part of how the Dorne's got hired because they need all the swords they could get, almost all the sellswords in Esso that we know of other then GC which is in Westeros, BC which are destroyed, and something called the Bright Banners are in Y area. When GC was hanging out, they were given ships to get rid of them, because all the other were in Y, and nobody knew why they were hanging out.

GC have 10k but are one of the largest co. I can't find it but somebody had numbers and most of the other sellswords have something like 500 to 5k, The other really big ones are 2S, windblown, and stromcrows but they already mixed in with this.

I was not saying that IB doesn't know, I was saying that guy did not know about it, that it started blowing up after he left Bravos, and that info had not caught up with him or he did not tell Stannis.

I also IRC the Ironmen did not go to Bravos because they would not have been welcome there.

Unless Bright Banners whom we heard of, is really huge, there just aren't any others out there that could come. Not that GRRM can't make up another sellsword co. if he needs to.

Like you said GRRM could write up some new companies. Sellswords will break contracts for the right price and who can bid higher than the Iron Bank?

The Golden company are the best by far and boast 10,000 strong although it does not say they are the largest. the Stormcrows and the Second Sons are 500 strong. That is a huge difference, there must be other companies who are closer in number to the GC. I was just reading the books and the only reason those two were hired was because the free cities would not have them, they were considered little better than the Brave Companions.

Since Lys, Myr and Tyrosh are on the verge of war, I assume the finest sellswords are either involved or stick closely to the free cities for their pay. The free cities are likely more trustworthy than the slavers and are in conflict more often. Bravvos being the most powerful free city, its possible that they have the best sellswords, besides the GC.

[Darth Rivers]

The Free Cities are indeed the hub of mercenary activity, like Italy was in Europe. It's pretty damn unlikely that the slavers managed to get all the sellswords, not when there's the Lys-Myr-Tyrosh thing brewing. In fact, I doubt any one faction can ever hire most of the mercenary companies, just because there are probably hundreds of them, all under different commanders, with different reputation and different pros and cons.

[Maia]

Honestly, I am not sure that the Iron Bank expects Stannis to win. It certainly looks very unlikely. IMHO, it is more that their philosophy requires them to respond to refusal to pay and punish the defaulter. They'd expect all the nobles who got pinched by the Iron Bank to turn on Cersei and Stannis making serious trouble could only help.

It is fairly likely, IMHO, that after Cersei's fall from power Kevan could have mollified the Iron Bank, though, particularly if he knuckled down and agreed to punitive payments. Which was one of the reason he needed to go.

The only way IB could think that Stannis would win is if they thought that the Vale was in their pocket via LF. But of course, LF knows very well that he won't last under Stannis and isn't going to truly help.

Also, after yet another round of destructive war and what looks to be a long, severe winter, where, did they imagine, would Stannis get the money to pay them?

Re: Stannis's 20K sellswords, IMHO he was putting the cart before the horse. Various military actions in the North have already strained the food reserves in many areas and winter has just started. Before hiring sellswords, Stannis should have thought how to feed the toops he has and considered that food may be very effective in attractng more northern support. And Riverlands support too.

Now he is ordering 20K sellswords, but how are they going to be fed? The North looks in the face of starvation as it is.

Also, snows, blizzards and very hazardious sailing to Eastwatch. I really don't see anybody but fools, desperate and extreme gamblers being attracted to the idea of fighting in the North in winter, no matter how good the pay. And maybe Ibbnese, who are acclimated to harsh climates and might actually do OK. But Stannis directed Massey to start hiring in Braavos and then got to disputed lands...

Re: Massey, it was a huge mistake of Stannis to send him on such a critical mission, yet promise no commeasurate reward and treat him so deprecatingly. IMHO, Massey is going to turn on him.

Re: Braavosi attitude to Dany and dragons, I imagine that it is going to change once they hear what the wildlings from Hardhome have to say about the Others, etc. In addition to the fact that Dany's actions may have sparked the true downfall of slavery - something which Braavos tried to achieve for centuries and not very successfully.

And the Iron bank would cease to exist, if they tried to use Faceless men so solve their problems. At least 2/3 of everything a client owns, remember + a very personal sacrifice.

[Batman]

Honestly, I am not sure that the Iron Bank expects Stannis to win. It certainly looks very unlikely. IMHO, it is more that their philosophy requires them to respond to refusal to pay and punish the defaulter. They'd expect all the nobles who got pinched by the Iron Bank to turn on Cersei and Stannis making serious trouble could only help.

It is fairly likely, IMHO, that after Cersei's fall from power Kevan could have mollified the Iron Bank, though, particularly if he knuckled down and agreed to punitive payments. Which was one of the reason he needed to go.

The only way IB could think that Stannis would win is if they thought that the Vale was in their pocket via LF. But of course, LF knows very well that he won't last under Stannis and isn't going to truly help.

Also, after yet another round of destructive war and what looks to be a long, severe winter, where, did they imagine, would Stannis get the money to pay them?

Re: Stannis's 20K sellswords, IMHO he was putting the cart before the horse. Various military actions in the North have already strained the food reserves in many areas and winter has just started. Before hiring sellswords, Stannis should have thought how to feed the toops he has and considered that food may be very effective in attractng more northern support. And Riverlands support too.

Now he is ordering 20K sellswords, but how are they going to be fed? The North looks in the face of starvation as it is.

Also, snows, blizzards and very hazardious sailing to Eastwatch. I really don't see anybody but fools, desperate and extreme gamblers being attracted to the idea of fighting in the North in winter, no matter how good the pay. And maybe Ibbnese, who are acclimated to harsh climates and might actually do OK. But Stannis directed Massey to start hiring in Braavos and then got to disputed lands...

Re: Massey, it was a huge mistake of Stannis to send him on such a critical mission, yet promise no commeasurate reward and treat him so deprecatingly. IMHO, Massey is going to turn on him.

Re: Braavosi attitude to Dany and dragons, I imagine that it is going to change once they hear what the wildlings from Hardhome have to say about the Others, etc. In addition to the fact that Dany's actions may have sparked the true downfall of slavery - something which Braavos tried to achieve for centuries and not very successfully.

And the Iron bank would cease to exist, if they tried to use Faceless men so solve their problems. At least 2/3 of everything a client owns, remember + a very personal sacrifice.

The soldiers will be fed with the same coin that buys his soldiers. Jon said that having the Iron Bank would be enough to allow Stannis to "hire a dozen sellsword companies, bribe Westerosi lords and keep his men clothed, armed and fed for as long as the war goes on". AND THIS IS ONE CLIENT!

The Iron Bank is a business, they are not going to piss away money on a venture they think will fail. This is taken on face value, but on forum everyone questions everything so have a go.

Currently Dany has only served to destroy Mereen and its wealth. If she leaves for Westeros slavery will return and if she doesnt there will be endless war to bring it back.

That would be a pretty lame storyline, the only force that can defeat the others is a bank? The Iron Bank getting involved with Stannis makes sense, they are a business. But getting involved in a battle between good and evil or whatever the others are would just be strange.

Dragons or slavery? Either way it is bad for the Iron Banks business. They have gotten used to slavery, but they have been rid of dragons for a few hundred years.

[Associate Maester]

We don't know what Stannis intends to do with said mercenaries. Does he plan on using them to garrison the Wall against the Other or to help clear out more enemies further South (maybe some combo of both).

[jarl the climber]

We don't know what Stannis intends to do with said mercenaries. Does he plan on using them to garrison the Wall against the Other or to help clear out more enemies further South (maybe some combo of both).

His orders to Massey were that they should be sent to Eastwatch but that might change if he wins White Harbor which is a much better and less remote base. If the mercenaries are worshipers of the Red God they might only agree to fight on the Wall. Massey might try and bribe the Golden Company into turning their cloaks. We have to wait and see on this.

[Jolene Brown]

This Iron Bank thing is starting to feel a little too much like a deus ex machina... yes, I know it's founded on Cercei's dumb decision in AFFC, so to some extent it grows out of character and it's not just purely imposed on the plot, but I don't think even Cercei is dumb enough to make that decision, and the idea that if the whole Iron Bank thing does work out for Stannis, the Iron Bank is going to decide who wins the war through unlimited funds, men, food, etc.. is going to really irritate me. There should be consequences for the decisions he's made which have brought him down to few men of dubious loyalty (his southerners have taken most of the damage from the march to Winterfell, leaving him with northerners who will care more about the Starks once Rickon and/or Bran return than him), no real food reserves, and an isolated position up north. I don't like the idea of the Iron Bank just magically rescuing him from that by granting him unlimited resources.

[Batman]

This Iron Bank thing is starting to feel a little too much like a deus ex machina... yes, I know it's founded on Cercei's dumb decision in AFFC, so to some extent it grows out of character and it's not just purely imposed on the plot, but I don't think even Cercei is dumb enough to make that decision, and the idea that if the whole Iron Bank thing does work out for Stannis, the Iron Bank is going to decide who wins the war through unlimited funds, men, food, etc.. is going to really irritate me. There should be consequences for the decisions he's made which have brought him down to few men of dubious loyalty (his southerners have taken most of the damage from the march to Winterfell, leaving him with northerners who will care more about the Starks once Rickon and/or Bran return than him), no real food reserves, and an isolated position up north. I don't like the idea of the Iron Bank just magically rescuing him from that by granting him unlimited resources.

I think you are underestimating just how stupid and arrogant Cersei is. She has been raised to believe there is no greater power than Casterly Rock and the Iron Throne. She thinks she needs new ships and the Iron Bank will just have to wait. What else could they do? Tywin would be apalled by her.

I would be more comfortable with that than Aegon showing up out of thin air and Dany using her dragons. Stannis has been in the thick of it and has refused to give in even when things seemed there worst. He keeps going because he knows that he is the rightful king. There is something inspiring about that kind of conviction in the face of defeat.

The Lannisters screwed up and turned the Iron Bank to Stannis' cause. I am OK with the idea of a mistake by the Lannister translating into a Baratheon victory. Robbs mistake cost him his throne and Tywins mistake cost him his life. That really does seem to be the way the game is played. Dany winning with dragons was not brought about by a mistake or any skill of hers, they just fell into her lap.

[Darth Rivers]

Indeed. The dragons are much closer to deus ex machina than the Iron Bank.

[jarl the climber]

The Free Cities are indeed the hub of mercenary activity, like Italy was in Europe. It's pretty damn unlikely that the slavers managed to get all the sellswords, not when there's the Lys-Myr-Tyrosh thing brewing. In fact, I doubt any one faction can ever hire most of the mercenary companies, just because there are probably hundreds of them, all under different commanders, with different reputation and different pros and cons.

As far as we know the Ghiscari went no futrther than Volantis in seeking Mercenary Companies. The ships heading to Mereen from Volantis might have more Free companies with them, all though it assumed they are carrying slave soldiers.

[jarl the climber]

I will also add this. Ser Jorah worked as sellsword for a short time in Lys before his marriage ended. He did this because his wife wanted to be somewhere warm. He said he would have been better off working for the Bravosi. Intstead he was fighting them for the Lyseni somewhere along the Rhoyne. This indicates that Bravos does use mecenaries and probaly on a large scale. Whaether they will want Stannis hiring them all away is a different matter.

[Associate Maester]

His orders to Massey were that they should be sent to Eastwatch but that might change if he wins White Harbor which is a much better and less remote base. If the mercenaries are worshipers of the Red God they might only agree to fight on the Wall. Massey might try and bribe the Golden Company into turning their cloaks. We have to wait and see on this.

I figured Eastwatch because at this point Stannis is assuming Davos is dead and Manderley a lost cause. This could be interesting if this is more than a plot device to fill\get Ayra involved in what is going on. Might've been a good thing to tell Massey to see if he could round up some large amounts of obsidian while is sellsword shopping.

[Last of the Darklyns]

Most sellswords seem to already be hired formthe Battle of Meereen, so unless they run away....

[Batman]

Most sellswords seem to already be hired formthe Battle of Meereen, so unless they run away....

Most of the sellswords who work near slavers bay are there simply because they can no longer get work in the Free Cities. At least this is the case with the Second Sons. The Free Cities are where the best sellsword companies are found, especially with a war between Myr, Tyrosh and Lys brewing. The disputed lands are a source of constant fighting and therefore constant work.

[Third World King]

In the sample chapter for the new book we see Stannis sending one of his men to use his new found Iron Bank money to hire sellswords. He tells him to hire 20,000 men and if possible to start with the Golden company.

How effective would sellswords from across the narrow sea be in the Westeros landscape?

How many sellswords can Stannis realistically expect to bring? He says to start with 20,000, how many more could he get if the conflict wears on?

How many sellswords of real value are there to be had in Essos?

Stannis is dying. He'll probably perish in the north, don't think he is ever going to return to the south.

With that said, if Stannis thinks he can win and hold the seven kingdoms with sellswords alone, he got a nasty surprise in store for him.

-The North will not unite under Stannis, but only for a Stark.

-The South hates Stannis, and his red witch ain't helping things either.

[Batman]

Stannis is dying. He'll probably perish in the north, don't think he is ever going to return to the south.

With that said, if Stannis thinks he can win and hold the seven kingdoms with sellswords alone, he got a nasty surprise in store for him.

-The North will not unite under Stannis, but only for a Stark.

-The South hates Stannis, and his red witch ain't helping things either.

What do you mean dying? His host is dying or he is? That letter supposedly from Ramsay has not been confirmed yet. I have no doubt that Stannis will beat the bastard in the field, especially since Wyman Manderly is out there too.

Winning the seven kingdoms with sellswords is possible, smashing hosts to pieces as your own force is resupplied with fresh troops thanks to the Iron Banks coin can win a war. Lords will bend the knee before they risk death and those who bend the knee early can hope to gain favourable terms if they lend their forces to the Kings cause.

- The North is partially following Stannis already and is desperate to get away from Bolton. If Davos succeeds in getting Rickon, Lord Wyman and the rest of the Northerns lords will follow him. Rickon is only a little boy but he will not go against a man who will restore him to his birthright and help him get vengance for his father, brother and mother. Something crazy would need to happen.

- Lets look at the Southern kingdoms

Dorne - They hate the Lannisters more than Stannis but they will most likely oppose Stannis

Stormlands - Aegon and the Golden Company seem to have a strangle hold on them. However the Stormlands is loyal to the Baratheons mostly, although this has been obscured by so many false Baratheons. If things are going Stannis' way they will follow. The Stormlands respect and fear him rather than hate.

Reach - Florent and Fossoway are the only lords who will follow Stannis. The rest hate and fear his rise to the throne, since they have fought against him so often.

Westerlands - Hate Stannis

Riverlands - Will not forget what the Lannisters have done. Stannis has never done them wrong.

Vale - No notable enemity

Iron Islands - Hate and fear Stannis. He destroyed their fleet, humiliated them in battle and was responsible for thousands of their family members deaths.

The Tullys may take their cue from the Starks if Rickon comes into play and the Stormlands might fight against Targaryen/Blackfyre rule. It jst depends on which Baratheon they fight for, the real or the false. Other than that he may be out of luck. Still, the Iron Bank probably has more coin than the Seven Kingdoms combined at this point and possibly before.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I'd be willing to bet that the chunk of the Golden Company that didn't make it to Westeros with Aegon is going to regroup and head back to Essos. I can see them making themselves available for hire, I'm sure the remainder would be more than happy to take the job.

[Batman]

I'd be willing to bet that the chunk of the Golden Company that didn't make it to Westeros with Aegon is going to regroup and head back to Essos. I can see them making themselves available for hire, I'm sure the remainder would be more than happy to take the job.

Come to think of it, Harry Strickland and Connington dont get along too well. The Golden Company has only broken a contract once, but the old saying goes everyone has a price. That is probably more wishful thinking on my part, the GC declaring for Stannis and throwing Jon Connington into the sea by Storms End.

[Third World King]

What do you mean dying? His host is dying or he is? That letter supposedly from Ramsay has not been confirmed yet. I have no doubt that Stannis will beat the bastard in the field, especially since Wyman Manderly is out there too.

Stannis lifeforce is slowly perishing. There is always a price to pay for sorcery...

Winning the seven kingdoms with sellswords is possible, smashing hosts to pieces as your own force is resupplied with fresh troops thanks to the Iron Banks coin can win a war. Lords will bend the knee before they risk death and those who bend the knee early can hope to gain favourable terms if they lend their forces to the Kings cause.

Dorne alone got 50 000 spears ready. Enough said.

- The North is partially following Stannis already and is desperate to get away from Bolton. If Davos succeeds in getting Rickon, Lord Wyman and the rest of the Northerns lords will follow him. Rickon is only a little boy but he will not go against a man who will restore him to his birthright and help him get vengance for his father, brother and mother. Something crazy would need to happen.

Do you really think the North will bow and accept Stannis as their King? They only recognize a Stark as their King.

- Lets look at the Southern kingdoms

Dorne - They hate the Lannisters more than Stannis but they will most likely oppose Stannis

Stormlands - Aegon and the Golden Company seem to have a strangle hold on them. However the Stormlands is loyal to the Baratheons mostly, although this has been obscured by so many false Baratheons. If things are going Stannis' way they will follow. The Stormlands respect and fear him rather than hate.

Stormlands may be loyal to the Baratheons, but they hate Stannis. How many lords came over to Stannis after Renly was murdered? A few, and many of them deserted him at the first opportunity back to a dead guy.

Reach - Florent and Fossoway are the only lords who will follow Stannis. The rest hate and fear his rise to the throne, since they have fought against him so often.

All of which carry a tiny military force. Certainly not enough to trouble any of the major houses.

Westerlands - Hate Stannis

Riverlands - Will not forget what the Lannisters have done. Stannis has never done them wrong.

Vale - No notable enemity

Riverlands will not join Stannis, they are not stupid. Many of them have seen their families and friends killed at the hands of the enemy. They will not bow to a pretender like Stannis just to see a repeat of that again. Edmure ceded the castle rather than fight because he knew the outcome would only be death.

Iron Islands - Hate and fear Stannis. He destroyed their fleet, humiliated them in battle and was responsible for thousands of their family members deaths.

The Crow's Eye fears no man....

The Tullys may take their cue from the Starks if Rickon comes into play and the Stormlands might fight against Targaryen/Blackfyre rule. It jst depends on which Baratheon they fight for, the real or the false. Other than that he may be out of luck. Still, the Iron Bank probably has more coin than the Seven Kingdoms combined at this point and possibly before.

Money will never win Stannis the Iron Throne. Sellswords love money, but they love their lives even more.

[Batman]

Stannis lifeforce is slowly perishing. There is always a price to pay for sorcery...

Dorne alone got 50 000 spears ready. Enough said.

Do you really think the North will bow and accept Stannis as their King? They only recognize a Stark as their King.

Stormlands may be loyal to the Baratheons, but they hate Stannis. How many lords came over to Stannis after Renly was murdered? A few, and many of them deserted him at the first opportunity back to a dead guy.

All of which carry a tiny military force. Certainly not enough to trouble any of the major houses.

Riverlands will not join Stannis, they are not stupid. Many of them have seen their families and friends killed at the hands of the enemy. They will not bow to a pretender like Stannis just to see a repeat of that again. Edmure ceded the castle rather than fight because he knew the outcome would only be death.

The Crow's Eye fears no man....

Money will never win Stannis the Iron Throne. Sellswords love money, but they love their lives even more.

1 - Unproven, moving on

2 - Dorne can only raise about 25,000 men. Doran states that they have been overstating their strength for years to keep the other kingdoms fearful. 50,000 spears they may have, but they only have 25,000 men to hold them. They will need to develop a new style of fighting where each man holds two spears.

3 - The North will only accept a Stark as their RULER. If the ruler of House Stark chooses to swear fealty to the King on the Iron Throne the rest of the North will follow. Ned did so and the rest of the North followed, Robb declared independance and the rest of the North followed. the North takes its cue from house Stark.

4 - They dont like Stannis because he is not like his brothers, but they are loyal to the name Baratheon. The problem is things are so screwed up with that name. Also if Robert had given Storms End to Stannis as was his right, they may have grown more loyal to him. Not because they would like him better but because they would not have known Renlys style of lordship. One way or another, I dont think they will accept a Targaryen after all they have done.

5 - They are not of much use. But weak allies are better than none. Although he may have none considering he burned the Lord of Brightwater Keep. He probably wont find any support from the Reach.

6 - A pretender? He isnt a pretender, he was the heir to the Iron throne by all the laws of Westeros. The Riverlands are essentially a spent force and I cant say they will definately declare for Stannis, but they will certainly not fight aginst him.

7 - Haha, you're funny.

8 - Sellswords fight well when they are winning. Stannis is a commander that can put them in that position. Why cant money win him the Iron Throne? If Westeros is anything like this world, money can do just about anything.