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Euron Greyjoy


jon tarkaryen

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Guest rhaenys
is it possible that GRRM introduces us to a horn that does nothing but kills the poor SOB that blows in it? How do they know the horn can control dragons, just because he claims to have found it near Valyria?

I think because the Warlocks told him it will control dragons. The killing thing is a complication, though, huh?

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is it possible that GRRM introduces us to a horn that does nothing but kills the poor SOB that blows in it? How do they know the horn can control dragons, just because he claims to have found it near Valyria?

well,true.Euron stated a lot of thinks,but are they true....Im not sure.I even belive he has two normal eyes and he wear eyepatch because he thinks its making him cool :P

but imagine that is true.horn do nothing but killing someone blowing in it.that could be interesting and nice way for Euron to remove his enemys...even Dany.she cant control dragons very well anymore(adwd spoiler chapter).so maybe Euron will tell her that she can control them with that horn.and then she dies...omg I just made another crakpot. :blush:

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He could be Euron. He definitely represents a Greyjoy. I think it is Euron because of his personality and because he controls the horn but it could be Victarion as I have said before.

Definitely? Definitely? How does Grey Lips smiling SADLY DEFINITELY indicate Greyjoy? now who is being thick and insistent?

It can stand for Euron since it does stand for a Greyjoy and Euron is a Greyjoy. It indicates she will marry him because it is in the "bride of fire" triplet.

You THINK that it stands for a Greyjoy, there is no consensus on that. You THINK that it could be Euron, but I think all the evidence IN THE PROPHECY points against it, yet again, you ignore that. Now do me a favor: Go back and re-read the ENTIRE SEQUENCE in the house of the undying start to finish and then try to tell me that it ABOLUTELY means that she will marry Euron GreyJoy (Aka Corpse Boy). It MIGHT indicate that, but it could mean almost anything in that context. ANd even if it DOES mean a Greyjoy, its placement doesn't necessarily imply marriage.

One word: symbolism. Once again, "grey lips smiling"=Greyjoy.

Two Words: SELECTIVE INTERPRETATION. Explain how a SAD smile equals JOY or Greyjoy. It could mean that, I have already allowed that, I am just pointing out that it is VERY FAR from a foregone conclusion, but you seem to not be allowing for that; your mind is made up evidently.

Can you identify those things that won't come to pass, or, as you say, "probably can't"? We are assuming she will marry them because, once again, it is in the "bride of fire" triplet.

Well, off the top of my head: the two images of Rhaego, the shadow beast rising from the tower and the dosh khalleen (sp) bowing down to her. Sure two of those COULD happen, but they seem to all refer to things that COULD have happened, but didn't. i.e., the shadow beast rising from Dragonstone IF Melisandre has sacrificed Edric Storm, The DOsh Kalleen bowing down AFTER Rahego does his thing, etc.

"Grey lips smiling" does mean Greyjoy. I'm sorry if you can't see that. I did not ignore the fact that the man is a corpse. I already covered it with what you admit to, namely, that the followers of the Drowned God drown their followers. I also said it could be Theon since he seems to have been through a lot.

Grey Lips smiling SADLY (please stop ignoring that last part, it matters) MIGHT mean Greyjoy. I have been able to see how it MIGHT mean it all along. WHat I refuse to grant you is that it DOES of MUST mean that, an assumption you came to a LONG time ago, and evidently refuse to let go of. It might mean it, it doesn't DEFINITELY mean it, and just because its in the bride of fire triplet doesn't mean she WILL marry the Corpse, re-read the prophecy.

I'm sorry, I don't recall those. Could you cite them, please?

I have no intention of going back and citing evertime that Davos smiles in two books. If you didn't get the general impression of resigned melancholy from Davos, especially after the deaths of his sons in CoK then there is nothing I will ever be able to type to convince you otherwise.

It comes in the "bride of fire" triplet. I think it represents her marriage to Drogo in that specific instance. Her silver, within the story, at the time it comes into the story, could represent all you say.

Now who is interpreting "Bride of Fire" literally? The events in the Bride of Fire triplet seem to be more LIFE-Cycle Events. It might represent Drogo, but given all the other (more significant) baggage that came with her silver I find that a very tough sell, ESPECIALLY given its presence in the triplet.

Based on this reasoning, it seems that the third thing in Dany's bride of fire vision, the third groom, is a blue flower in a wall of ice. It can't be Jon because it lacks Jon's identifying features, of, ummm, a body. Again, symbolism.

Now you are being willfully dense. The flower is clearly a Symbol for SOMETHING, and yes it could be a person. But a PERSON can't logically be a symbol for another PERSON who looks nothing like them. This should be OBVIOUS.

It is placed in the "bride of fire" vision. That implies husband.

No, it doesn't re-read THE WHOLE THING.

The lips are symbolic of a Greyjoy. Before AOTK, most people thought it was "some Greyjoy." We didn't have any basis for it to be anyone specific. After AOTK came out, people started gravitating toward Euron because he knew about Dany, had the dragon horn, and became the king. After AFFC came out, people shifted to Victarion because he was going to Dany and wanted to take her for himself. If you want a revision, let's just say it seems Euron or Victarion are the likeliest candidates now.

The lips MIGHT. I say Again MIGHT be SYmbolic of a GreyJoy, its NOT Not NOT definite. But the rest of the Corpses appearance DOESN'T fit Euron (his eyes don't match, DUH), hence...its not Him, 99-1 (there, are you happy, I gave you 1% doubt)

I granted you 2 pages ago that It might represent Victarion, or Theon, or even the Ironborn, but no, some of you are HELLBENT on it meaning Euron when the vision looks nothing like him.

ANd on the issue of lip color: The color of Euron's Lips is not something insignificant like a mole or a broken nose, it represents something magical. it represents an awakening. If the warlocks are to be believed it "opens ones third eye" as it were (or course I am paraphrasing). This is something that sets Euron appart VERY DEFINITELY from the rest of the Ironborn and the Greyjoys. If the Corpse was meant to be him it should have been depicted in some fashion in the vision because of its mystical significance (think 3 eyed crow).

As for Euron being a pawn of the warlocks: I kind of doubt it. Bastard that he is I don't think we have any particular reason to doubt his version of how he came upon the warlocks or the shade of the evening. And as to the Horn I don't see why he couldn't have gotten it from Valyria, I mean, someone had to right? He seems to be both daring and crazy enough to do it.

This is not to dismiss the warlocks of course, I just doub that Euron is their pawn.

my $.10

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Guest rhaenys
This is not to dismiss the warlocks of course, I just doub that Euron is their pawn.

my $.10

Okay - who is then, b/c someone must be going after Dany for them. Wait, wait, let me start over.

Well he has BLUE LIPS, so I thought that might INDICATE something. And, they are MAD at Dany so SOMEBODY has to be going after her. Oh, and I imagine they are not big fans of the DRAGONS and would want to control them, maybe with a HORN? Oh, and who has a HORN? Could it be EURON??? :rofl:

Sorry, couldn't help it. That was such a long and CAPITALIZED post. ;)

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Okay - who is then, b/c someone must be going after Dany for them. Wait, wait, let me start over.

Well he has BLUE LIPS, so I thought that might INDICATE something. And, they are MAD at Dany so SOMEBODY has to be going after her. Oh, and I imagine they are not big fans of the DRAGONS and would want to control them, maybe with a HORN? Oh, and who has a HORN? Could it be EURON??? :rofl:

Sorry, couldn't help it. That was such a long and CAPITALIZED post. ;)

As I said, its possible, but I just don't see any particular reason to doubt Euron's version of events, it just seems too...right to me. I also tend to think that the crow's eye, as depicted is no mans puppet, agent, slave, whatever.

We know that Shade of the evening gives you blue lips and he has been quafing it regularly, he easily could have acquired it in the fashion stated.

I agree that the warlocks are probably doing SOMETHING, I mean they (presumeably) already sent a Sorrowful man after her, but I just doubt that Euron is their catspaw, especially given the timing of it all, it just feels wrong to me. Again, I am not saying its not possible, I just seriously doubt, and don't think we have any reason to doubt THAT particular thing about Euron.

my $.10

p.s., sorry about the rampant capitalization, But I am getting really tired of some people insisting on what the Corpse absolutely HAS to mean.

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Guest rhaenys
p.s., sorry about the rampant capitalization, But I am getting really tired of some people insisting on what the Corpse absolutely HAS to mean.

And I thought it was about the grey lips smiling thing. Sadly smiling, that is.

Overall, though, it's like they say about skepticism, you can argue over whether the ground is there or not until your hair turns grey, but sooner or later you've got to take a step or you're never going to get anywhere.

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I have no intention of going back and citing evertime that Davos smiles in two books. If you didn't get the general impression of resigned melancholy from Davos, especially after the deaths of his sons in CoK then there is nothing I will ever be able to type to convince you otherwise.

hmm I know davos is sad for his sons,but I cant remember him smiling sadly.I can only remember Jon smiling sadly.

And talking about Jon,gray lips-corpse and blue eyes.....we know who has really really blue eyes....Others.Is it possible that prophercy is representing a wight???

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hmm I know davos is sad for his sons,but I cant remember him smiling sadly.I can only remember Jon smiling sadly.

And talking about Jon,gray lips-corpse and blue eyes.....we know who has really really blue eyes....Others.Is it possible that prophercy is representing a wight???

Though I don't think its supposed to be a wight, I think the chances of that are just as good as it being Euron.

Coldhands Benjen the sailor, coming to give Dany some funky dead love, oh yeah!!!

my $.10

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Though I don't think its supposed to be a wight, I think the chances of that are just as good as it being Euron.

Coldhands Benjen the sailor, coming to give Dany some funky dead love, oh yeah!!!

my $.10

strange are the GRRM paths....but I suggested this only to please you.I still belive its Euron or Victarion nonthelass.

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strange are the GRRM paths....but I suggested this only to please you.I still belive its Euron or Victarion nonthelass.

ANd i was hardly serious. Again, I can totally allow that it might be Victarion (though I think his chances of success with Dany are highly limited), I just think that all the evidence contradicts the possibility of it being Euron. As I said before, a person can't sybolically represent another person who looks nothing like them. Sure Blue flower could, because it is obviously a symbol. I actualy think that the idea of the Corpse being representative of the Ironborn GENRALLY is far more probable and interesting than saying "its a slam dunk depiction of Euron and he's gonna marry Dany, its totally clear", when anything but that it true.

my $.10

p.s., and yes, that means I think that the chances of a successful kidnapping are slim to non-existent.

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Ok, I read through this whole thread, and something nagged at me the whole time.

How exactly did everyone come to the conclusion that GRRM always prophesizes about how people look at the time?

I can think of one specific instance of a Bran dream prophesy where he saw "A giant armored in stone and under his visor was only darkness".

No one in Westeros fit that description way back in AGOT, but Gregor Ceglane, Qyburn's golem sure seems to.

Which would mean that descriptions of people in prophecy aren't ALWAYS how someone looks at the moment.

But I do believe the mount to dread is Euron.

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ANd i was hardly serious. Again, I can totally allow that it might be Victarion (though I think his chances of success with Dany are highly limited), I just think that all the evidence contradicts the possibility of it being Euron. As I said before, a person can't sybolically represent another person who looks nothing like them. Sure Blue flower could, because it is obviously a symbol. I actualy think that the idea of the Corpse being representative of the Ironborn GENRALLY is far more probable and interesting than saying "its a slam dunk depiction of Euron and he's gonna marry Dany, its totally clear", when anything but that it true.

my $.10

p.s., and yes, that means I think that the chances of a successful kidnapping are slim to non-existent.

I always more belived in theory that it will be Victarion and not Euron.and he has chances to success,because of his fleet,as I said before.

Ok, I read through this whole thread, and something nagged at me the whole time.

How exactly did everyone come to the conclusion that GRRM always prophesizes about how people look at the time?

I can think of one specific instance of a Bran dream prophesy where he saw "A giant armored in stone and under his visor was only darkness".

No one in Westeros fit that description way back in AGOT, but Gregor Ceglane, Qyburn's golem sure seems to.

Which would mean that descriptions of people in prophecy aren't ALWAYS how someone looks at the moment.

But I do believe the mount to dread is Euron.

well....person descrption doesant always mean "blue eyes,brown hair".Everyone would guess that "a giant in stone armor" is Mountain.But,in prophercy we are talking about,its not at the moment clear who is in question.but considering other prophecies,it looks like physical description must fit.question is:is it wight or Greyjoy....or somebody third?

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Ok, I read through this whole thread, and something nagged at me the whole time.

How exactly did everyone come to the conclusion that GRRM always prophesizes about how people look at the time?

I can think of one specific instance of a Bran dream prophesy where he saw "A giant armored in stone and under his visor was only darkness".

No one in Westeros fit that description way back in AGOT, but Gregor Ceglane, Qyburn's golem sure seems to.

Which would mean that descriptions of people in prophecy aren't ALWAYS how someone looks at the moment.

But I do believe the mount to dread is Euron.

My contention has always been that they appear in the vision as they look at some time in the course of the story, not necessarily the time the prophecy took place. For example Robb appears with Greywinds head sewn in place of his own: We find out in SoS that the freys do this to Robbs body. You also used the UnGregor example.

My point about Euron is that He DOES have Blue lips and we have no reason to think that goes away when a Warlock dies. The Corpses Eyes are described as the same (or at least not different), yet we know that Euron's eyes are different; this appears to have been the case with him for a very long time.

SO I would agree, that the prophecies don't necessarily describe how someone looks at THAT particular Moment, but the Sailing Corpse STILL looks all wrong to be Euron at any point in the story.

I think that one of the dragons, probably Drogon will be the mount to dread; I think the evidence for Euron is slim to none. More importantly I don't think SHE would be mounting EURON I think HE would be mounting HER, which is TOTALLY different. (If you all think back she did MOUNT Drogo at least once, and not on their wedding night).

my $.10

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I always more belived in theory that it will be Victarion and not Euron.and he has chances to success,because of his fleet,as I said before.

well....person descrption doesant always mean "blue eyes,brown hair".Everyone would guess that "a giant in stone armor" is Mountain.But,in prophercy we are talking about,its not at the moment clear who is in question.but considering other prophecies,it looks like physical description must fit.question is:is it wight or Greyjoy....or somebody third?

I believe that what Dany's vision represents, given the text so far, is Euron coming to murder his brother over his betrayal (ie, the plot to take Dany for his own). Basically, Dany might fall for Mighty Vic, but when Crow Eye comes in a black temper...

We know the Ironborn are against kinslaying, so that could produce a rather sad smile when one knew that they had to do it.

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I believe that what Dany's vision represents, given the text so far, is Euron coming to murder his brother over his betrayal (ie, the plot to take Dany for his own). Basically, Dany might fall for Mighty Vic, but when Crow Eye comes in a black temper...

We know the Ironborn are against kinslaying, so that could produce a rather sad smile when one knew that they had to do it.

yeah I posted that idea some time ago nad I stand behind it.Euron is guy that would slay his own brother if neccessarly,so....oh how I would like Euron's pov in adwd.

My point about Euron is that He DOES have Blue lips and we have no reason to think that goes away when a Warlock dies. The Corpses Eyes are described as the same (or at least not different), yet we know that Euron's eyes are different; this appears to have been the case with him for a very long time.

SO I would agree, that the prophecies don't necessarily describe how someone looks at THAT particular Moment, but the Sailing Corpse STILL looks all wrong to be Euron at any point in the story.

I think that one of the dragons, probably Drogon will be the mount to dread; I think the evidence for Euron is slim to none. More importantly I don't think SHE would be mounting EURON I think HE would be mounting HER, which is TOTALLY different. (If you all think back she did MOUNT Drogo at least once, and not on their wedding night).

my $.10

you are stoneheaded arent you?;)

as far as I know,women CAN mount men.

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Definitely? Definitely? How does Grey Lips smiling SADLY DEFINITELY indicate Greyjoy? now who is being thick and insistent?

I am being insistent but I am not being thick. I'm not sure you understand so I will lay out very simply. "Grey" in the prophecy equates to "Grey" in the Greyjoy name. "lips smiling" in the prophecy equates to "joy" in the Greyjoy name. The sadly part could actually be support for Victarion or Theon who have reason to be sad. I think it actually hurts the Euron argument.

You THINK that it stands for a Greyjoy, there is no consensus on that. You THINK that it could be Euron, but I think all the evidence IN THE PROPHECY points against it, yet again, you ignore that. Now do me a favor: Go back and re-read the ENTIRE SEQUENCE in the house of the undying start to finish and then try to tell me that it ABOLUTELY means that she will marry Euron GreyJoy (Aka Corpse Boy). It MIGHT indicate that, but it could mean almost anything in that context. ANd even if it DOES mean a Greyjoy, its placement doesn't necessarily imply marriage.

Actually, I would say there is a consensus that is a Greyjoy. Errant Bard seems to think it could be anyone and even you seem to admit it could probably be a Greyjoy. I re-read the entire sequence and it does not absolutely mean she will marry Euron. To me, it does mean she will marry a Greyjoy, and Euron is a possibility.

Two Words: SELECTIVE INTERPRETATION. Explain how a SAD smile equals JOY or Greyjoy. It could mean that, I have already allowed that, I am just pointing out that it is VERY FAR from a foregone conclusion, but you seem to not be allowing for that; your mind is made up evidently.

Dictionary.com definition for selective:Of or characterized by selection; discriminating. That's how I interpret things. The "sadly" part I already covered.

Well, off the top of my head: the two images of Rhaego, the shadow beast rising from the tower and the dosh khalleen (sp) bowing down to her. Sure two of those COULD happen, but they seem to all refer to things that COULD have happened, but didn't. i.e., the shadow beast rising from Dragonstone IF Melisandre has sacrificed Edric Storm, The DOsh Kalleen bowing down AFTER Rahego does his thing, etc.

Ok, they could happen. Good enough.

Grey Lips smiling SADLY (please stop ignoring that last part, it matters) MIGHT mean Greyjoy. I have been able to see how it MIGHT mean it all along. WHat I refuse to grant you is that it DOES of MUST mean that, an assumption you came to a LONG time ago, and evidently refuse to let go of. It might mean it, it doesn't DEFINITELY mean it, and just because its in the bride of fire triplet doesn't mean she WILL marry the Corpse, re-read the prophecy.

It does mean Greyjoy imo. I'm sorry if it bugs you that I have made up my mind. I re-read the whole prophecy and I still see the bride of fire triplet as indicating who she has and will marry.

I have no intention of going back and citing evertime that Davos smiles in two books. If you didn't get the general impression of resigned melancholy from Davos, especially after the deaths of his sons in CoK then there is nothing I will ever be able to type to convince you otherwise.

:lol: Sure man.

Now who is interpreting "Bride of Fire" literally? The events in the Bride of Fire triplet seem to be more LIFE-Cycle Events. It might represent Drogo, but given all the other (more significant) baggage that came with her silver I find that a very tough sell, ESPECIALLY given its presence in the triplet.

I am.

Now you are being willfully dense. The flower is clearly a Symbol for SOMETHING, and yes it could be a person. But a PERSON can't logically be a symbol for another PERSON who looks nothing like them. This should be OBVIOUS.

No, I am being sarcastic to prove a point. The man on the ship is a symbol for something.

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I am being insistent but I am not being thick. I'm not sure you understand so I will lay out very simply. "Grey" in the prophecy equates to "Grey" in the Greyjoy name. "lips smiling" in the prophecy equates to "joy" in the Greyjoy name. The sadly part could actually be support for Victarion or Theon who have reason to be sad. I think it actually hurts the Euron argument.

Actually, I would say there is a consensus that is a Greyjoy. Errant Bard seems to think it could be anyone and even you seem to admit it could probably be a Greyjoy. I re-read the entire sequence and it does not absolutely mean she will marry Euron. To me, it does mean she will marry a Greyjoy, and Euron is a possibility.

Dictionary.com definition for selective:Of or characterized by selection; discriminating. That's how I interpret things. The "sadly" part I already covered.

Ok, they could happen. Good enough.

It does mean Greyjoy imo. I'm sorry if it bugs you that I have made up my mind. I re-read the whole prophecy and I still see the bride of fire triplet as indicating who she has and will marry.

:lol: Sure man.

I am.

No, I am being sarcastic to prove a point. The man on the ship is a symbol for something.

shorten:its Greyjoy(probably Victarion).

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Guest rhaenys
The sadly part could actually be support for Victarion or Theon who have reason to be sad. I think it actually hurts the Euron argument.

Thanks! The sadly part was troubling me, 'cause I was stuck on Euron more than Vic or Theo, but (duh!) it probably is a 'sad' Greyjoy. In my mind, this is probably Vic, who is suppose, will probably die.

I suppose it could be Theon too, but I think Vic is slightly more likely since he's on his way to see Dany already.

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I am being insistent but I am not being thick. I'm not sure you understand so I will lay out very simply. "Grey" in the prophecy equates to "Grey" in the Greyjoy name. "lips smiling" in the prophecy equates to "joy" in the Greyjoy name. The sadly part could actually be support for Victarion or Theon who have reason to be sad. I think it actually hurts the Euron argument.

Oh my God. No S#!T!! Really?.

I understand the Arguement as to WHY it COULD mean GreyJoy. My central claim is that it is not clear cut and definite that that is what "Grey lips smiling sadly" must mean. The lips are on a corpse and corpses have what color lips? what did you say? was that GREY? yeah, thats what I thought. I was calling you thick because you refuse to accept the possibility that it could possibly be anything but a direct reference to the greyjoys. my contention is that that is flawed logic.

As to the sadly part, does this mean that you are finally conceding that in all probability it is NOT Euron that is being referred to? If so its about Damn time.

Dictionary.com definition for selective:Of or characterized by selection; discriminating. That's how I interpret things. The "sadly" part I already covered.

My point was that by saying it MUST Mean "GreyJoy" you were being silly. Of course it could mean other things or indead have no greater significance than that a dead man is smiling sadly. But oh no, you insist it absolutely DOES and HAS to mean GreyJoy. Thats my point, and you just proved it for me.

It does mean Greyjoy imo. I'm sorry if it bugs you that I have made up my mind. I re-read the whole prophecy and I still see the bride of fire triplet as indicating who she has and will marry.

It doesn't bug me at all that that is what you think it means. WHat bugs me is that you INSIST that is what it HAS to mean and ALL IT CAN MEAN. You think that Bride of fire triplet tells us who she has and will marry. Thats is far from clear or definite. It might mean that. You think it does. But it is far from clear, and you type as if it is a forgone conclusion, and any other interpretation is ill-based. I can only conclude by that that you are reading the prophecy VERY narrowly. That is my point of disagreement with you. Your reading of the prophecies has attempted to be far more literal than mine.

My biggest bone of contention all along has been that People in the visions look more as less as they do at some point in the story, and the corpse in the boat, as described doesn't look anything like Euron, be he a GreyJoy or not. A person is not a symbol for another person who looks nothing like that. its not hard, really, its simply.

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