Euron Greyjoy

[Guest rhaenys]

It doesn't bug me at all that that is what you think it means. WHat bugs me is that you INSIST that is what it HAS to mean and ALL IT CAN MEAN. You think that Bride of fire triplet tells us who she has and will marry. Thats is far from clear or definite. It might mean that. You think it does. But it is far from clear, and you type as if it is a forgone conclusion, and any other interpretation is ill-based. I can only conclude by that that you are reading the prophecy VERY narrowly. That is my point of disagreement with you. Your reading of the prophecies has attempted to be far more literal than mine.

Dude, it's a greyjoy. And literal means not symbolic, as in an actual dead person, who is gray, smiling sadly. If it's a greyjoy, smiling = joy and color grey = grey in a name, therefore, that would be symbolic.

BTW - you know who just writes the absolute best prophecy? Terry Goodkind. Coincidentally, he also likes to use overly simplistic logic to twist arguments into what seem like obvious victories.

Seriously, though, I think the threads are generally more entertaining when people try to argue for something instead of just arguing against things, since a good case can really be made against anything that hasn't happened yet, as you've thoroughly demonstrated. So who do you think the grey guy symbolizes? Davos, was it?

[Courtland]

Dude, it's a greyjoy. And literal means not symbolic, as in an actual dead person, who is gray, smiling sadly. If it's a greyjoy, smiling = joy and color grey = grey in a name, therefore, that would be symbolic.

BTW - you know who just writes the absolute best prophecy? Terry Goodkind. Coincidentally, he also likes to use overly simplistic logic to twist arguments into what seem like obvious victories.

Seriously, though, I think the threads are generally more entertaining when people try to argue for something instead of just arguing against things, since a good case can really be made against anything that hasn't happened yet, as you've thoroughly demonstrated. So who do you think the grey guy symbolizes? Davos, was it?

Davos was a suggestion, and a possibility but I don't think him terribly likely. Though he is more likely than Euron. From reading the prophecy I am not convinced AT ALL that the Corpse in the boat will be a husband but rather represent an ally or even an envoy. IN that Case it MAY be Victarion (and if its going to be a Greyjoy I think it HAS to be Victarion, Euron is out), but again, I think that reading the grey lips as proof that it is a greyjoy is just plain silly.

Given where I see Dany's storyline going I am not at all sure that we have even seen the man in the boat yet (wow that sounded bad didn't it?).

my $.10

p.s., you couldn't pay me to read Goodkind

[Guest rhaenys]

Given where I see Dany's storyline going I am not at all sure that we have even seen the man in the boat yet (wow that sounded bad didn't it?).

Oh, that's FUNNY. I actually had to read it twice to get it. Anyway, maybe we haven't but Drogo and Irri certainly have, but at least it's not Lancel, Kettleblack, and Moon Boy for all I know.

p.s., you couldn't pay me to read Goodkind

Yeah, I was kidding...

Nevertheless, don't think I'm taken in by your clever skeptical ploys - I'm sticking with a greyjoy, although I also am now leaning more toward Victarion. I just resisted him at first because he's so boring, and, y'know, he killed his last wife with his bare hands and all. Actually, I guess it's a toss up who would really be grosser to sleep with - Euron or Victarion. Maybe I should start a thread on that - who would be the least disgusting Greyjoy to get it on with...now there's a tough question.

On second thought, I'd have to limit it to male Greyjoys, or it would be a really easy question, huh?

[Jon Targaryen]

Oh my God. No S#!T!! Really?.

I understand the Arguement as to WHY it COULD mean GreyJoy. My central claim is that it is not clear cut and definite that that is what "Grey lips smiling sadly" must mean. The lips are on a corpse and corpses have what color lips? what did you say? was that GREY? yeah, thats what I thought. I was calling you thick because you refuse to accept the possibility that it could possibly be anything but a direct reference to the greyjoys. my contention is that that is flawed logic.

Good. I'm glad you understand because I was afraid you were thick and not understanding the connection. You're going to have come up with something besides just calling it "flawed logic." It seems very logical to me that the interpretation of the dead sailor is what I have said, one of the Greyjoys.

As to the sadly part, does this mean that you are finally conceding that in all probability it is NOT Euron that is being referred to? If so its about Damn time.

I said it could be Victarion in the 11th post in this thread, before you started posting.

My point was that by saying it MUST Mean "GreyJoy" you were being silly. Of course it could mean other things or indead have no greater significance than that a dead man is smiling sadly. But oh no, you insist it absolutely DOES and HAS to mean GreyJoy. Thats my point, and you just proved it for me.

Selective interpretation seems to be the only way to go to me. Unless you just want to say, "well, it could mean anything." Then why even post?

It doesn't bug me at all that that is what you think it means. WHat bugs me is that you INSIST that is what it HAS to mean and ALL IT CAN MEAN. You think that Bride of fire triplet tells us who she has and will marry. Thats is far from clear or definite. It might mean that. You think it does. But it is far from clear, and you type as if it is a forgone conclusion, and any other interpretation is ill-based. I can only conclude by that that you are reading the prophecy VERY narrowly. That is my point of disagreement with you. Your reading of the prophecies has attempted to be far more literal than mine.

I am attempting to read the prophecy that is correct. When a group of prophecies is titled "bride of fire" and shows someone Dany has married and then two other people, I think it will mean Dany will marry those people. Yes, I actually take a stance.

My biggest bone of contention all along has been that People in the visions look more as less as they do at some point in the story, and the corpse in the boat, as described doesn't look anything like Euron, be he a GreyJoy or not. A person is not a symbol for another person who looks nothing like that. its not hard, really, its simply.

The vision of Gregor (or whoever) is one example. For that matter, the other two people in the vision that shadow Ned and the girls. I think it does mean Greyjoy. Euron is a Greyjoy. Therefore, he is a possibility. Some Botley is not.

[Errant Bard]

I am attempting to read the prophecy that is correct. When a group of prophecies is titled "bride of fire" and shows someone Dany has married and then two other people, I think it will mean Dany will marry those people. Yes, I actually take a stance.

I have to say here: what the hell? The full text of that prophecy covers more than 3 different entities. Look:

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name.

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible.

A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door.

Behind a silver horse the blood corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged.

A white lion ran through grass taller than a man.

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her food, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them.

How can you say that this corpse definitely depicts be one of her possible future husbands? If I interpret right, in this text, we have reference to Jon, Tyrion, Stannis, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Aurane Waters, Mirri maz dur, Dany herself, the man who tried to poison her, a troop of slaves, and the corpse guy...

Now not only do you ignore all the other lines in the prophecy, claiming that it is only about dany's grooms, when obviously a stone dragon, or a troop of slave have no business about it, but you focus on two words, ignoring the parts that don't fit, like the sad quality of the smile, or the fact that a play on word is not symbolic and is never used elsewhere. A real symbol for (Euron) greyjoy would have been a swimming (silent) kraken (with crow's eyes), for example, that's why I always prefered to think of this vision as a real one without any metaphorical stuff, ever since I saw Uncat and the wights.

Aside from that, corpses usually have grey lips, but they don't usually smile sadly, so in my opinion the sad smile is the important part, not the lip color.

Make no mistake, I admit there is a possibility that this vision shows actually Euron, but I find the way you play the inquisitor with your interpretation a bit annoying. There is no leap of faith required, only patience until GRRM writes the stuff, and at the moment there is definitely no absolute correct interpretation. Maybe it's correct in your eyes, but you have to accept that it's totally crackpot for others. And indeed, it's crackpot in my eyes.

[jon tarkaryen]

I have to say here: what the hell? The full text of that prophecy covers more than 3 different entities. Look:

How can you say that this corpse definitely depicts be one of her possible future husbands? If I interpret right, in this text, we have reference to Jon, Tyrion, Stannis, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Aurane Waters, Mirri maz dur, Dany herself, the man who tried to poison her, a troop of slaves, and the corpse guy...

Now not only do you ignore all the other lines in the prophecy, claiming that it is only about dany's grooms, when obviously a stone dragon, or a troop of slave have no business about it, but you focus on two words, ignoring the parts that don't fit, like the sad quality of the smile, or the fact that a play on word is not symbolic and is never used elsewhere. A real symbol for (Euron) greyjoy would have been a swimming (silent) kraken (with crow's eyes), for example, that's why I always prefered to think of this vision as a real one without any metaphorical stuff, ever since I saw Uncat and the wights.

Aside from that, corpses usually have grey lips, but they don't usually smile sadly, so in my opinion the sad smile is the important part, not the lip color.

Make no mistake, I admit there is a possibility that this vision shows actually Euron, but I find the way you play the inquisitor with your interpretation a bit annoying. There is no leap of faith required, only patience until GRRM writes the stuff, and at the moment there is definitely no absolute correct interpretation. Maybe it's correct in your eyes, but you have to accept that it's totally crackpot for others. And indeed, it's crackpot in my eyes.

Its Greyjoy.Victarion probably.but that smiling sadly is interesting and important part,yes.

Euron never smiled sadly.

[Courtland]

I have to say here: what the hell? The full text of that prophecy covers more than 3 different entities. Look:

How can you say that this corpse definitely depicts be one of her possible future husbands? If I interpret right, in this text, we have reference to Jon, Tyrion, Stannis, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Aurane Waters, Mirri maz dur, Dany herself, the man who tried to poison her, a troop of slaves, and the corpse guy...

Now not only do you ignore all the other lines in the prophecy, claiming that it is only about dany's grooms, when obviously a stone dragon, or a troop of slave have no business about it, but you focus on two words, ignoring the parts that don't fit, like the sad quality of the smile, or the fact that a play on word is not symbolic and is never used elsewhere. A real symbol for (Euron) greyjoy would have been a swimming (silent) kraken (with crow's eyes), for example, that's why I always prefered to think of this vision as a real one without any metaphorical stuff, ever since I saw Uncat and the wights.

Aside from that, corpses usually have grey lips, but they don't usually smile sadly, so in my opinion the sad smile is the important part, not the lip color.

Make no mistake, I admit there is a possibility that this vision shows actually Euron, but I find the way you play the inquisitor with your interpretation a bit annoying. There is no leap of faith required, only patience until GRRM writes the stuff, and at the moment there is definitely no absolute correct interpretation. Maybe it's correct in your eyes, but you have to accept that it's totally crackpot for others. And indeed, it's crackpot in my eyes.

OH Snap! Thank you!!!! It about time someone BESIDES ME actually read the whole prophecy, in order, and stopped arbitrarily dividing it the images that largely come in one long sequence into "triplets" that supposedly tell us something definite.

Unfortunately Errant Bard we are preaching to the def. He has made up his mind and nothing (including the actual structure of the prophecy) is going to either change anyones mind, or get them to admit that it Might not mean what they insist it does mean.

I have never said it couldn't be a Greyjoy. What I maintain is that appearance matters and that Euron's appearance is NEVER going to match that of Corpse-boy, unlike the Mountain, or Shadow Ned, or Wolf-Robb...

but that smiling sadly is interesting and important part,yes.

Euron never smiled sadly.

Oh, is that a concession? Are you conceding the point? That sounds an awful lot like a concession, especially when I read it out loud. Are you finally convinced that its NOT Euron? Because if so, that has been my whole point all along.

my $.10

[Jon Targaryen]

I have to say here: what the hell? The full text of that prophecy covers more than 3 different entities. Look:

How can you say that this corpse definitely depicts be one of her possible future husbands? If I interpret right, in this text, we have reference to Jon, Tyrion, Stannis, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Aurane Waters, Mirri maz dur, Dany herself, the man who tried to poison her, a troop of slaves, and the corpse guy...

Errant Bard,

You failed to write all of the prophecy. After Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar, the Undying say, "mother of dragons, daughter of death." These three visions show significant people in her life that have died. After Stannis, the cloth dragon and and shadow stone dragon, the Undying say, "mother of dragons, slayer of lies." These three visions show "lies" she will have to defeat or prove wrong. After Drogo, the Greyjoy and Jon, the Undying say, "mother of dragons, bride of fire." These three visions show people she will marry or has married.

Now not only do you ignore all the other lines in the prophecy, claiming that it is only about dany's grooms

I ignored the lines in the prophecy that did not pertain to Dany's husbands because we were discussing the one about Dany's husbands.

but you focus on two words, ignoring the parts that don't fit, like the sad quality of the smile, or the fact that a play on word is not symbolic and is never used elsewhere

I covered the sad part, saying it could support Theon or Victarion. If you choose to ignore the play on words here, more power to you.

Aside from that, corpses usually have grey lips, but they don't usually smile sadly, so in my opinion the sad smile is the important part, not the lip color.

Well, what is important is the corpse part, something else that may support Theon and doesn't support Euron or Victarion, unless we are talking about ritual Ironborn drowning.

Make no mistake, I admit there is a possibility that this vision shows actually Euron, but I find the way you play the inquisitor with your interpretation a bit annoying. There is no leap of faith required, only patience until GRRM writes the stuff, and at the moment there is definitely no absolute correct interpretation. Maybe it's correct in your eyes, but you have to accept that it's totally crackpot for others. And indeed, it's crackpot in my eyes.

Sure, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation. You have to accept that I firmly believe mine. And I'm not going to say I don't. That is all.

OH Snap! Thank you!!!! It about time someone BESIDES ME actually read the whole prophecy, in order, and stopped arbitrarily dividing it the images that largely come in one long sequence into "triplets" that supposedly tell us something definite.

It is not "arbitrarily" divided into "triplets." Those triplets are as clear as day. They are right there in the prophecy if you read them.

[Courtland]

It is not "arbitrarily" divided into "triplets." Those triplets are as clear as day. They are right there in the prophecy if you read them.

Yes and no. You are correct to point out that the undying do insert: mother of dragons, daughter of death, mother of dragons, slayer of lies, mother of dragons, bride of fire. My point about you being arbitrary is that it is not at all clear what that means. Honestly one can simply see those "triplets" as titles that the undying use to describe Dany, and not as an explanation of what those images mean. You are rather arbitrarily telling us what you THINK those three titles, and thus some of the images MUST mean which is not at all clear. The point is that they are a jumble, and the Undying saying "Bride of Fire", and SHowing us Dany's Horse, a dead Sailor Dude, and a Blue Flower (which yes, I do think probably represents Jon, but not necessarily as a love interest or "Husband". His Possible Targaryen Blood is of interest and significance enough to Dany to warrant its inclusion in the vision) does not mean that she is going to marry, or has married, any or all of them.

More than anything else the undying are showing us images that relate too two things: Significant events in Dany's Life, and people or places significant to her return to weteros.

my $.10

[Jon Targaryen]

Yes and no. You are correct to point out that the undying do insert: mother of dragons, daughter of death, mother of dragons, slayer of lies, mother of dragons, bride of fire. My point about you being arbitrary is that it is not at all clear what that means. Honestly one can simply see those "triplets" as titles that the undying use to describe Dany, and not as an explanation of what those images mean. You are rather arbitrarily telling us what you THINK those three titles, and thus some of the images MUST mean which is not at all clear. The point is that they are a jumble, and the Undying saying "Bride of Fire", and SHowing us Dany's Horse, a dead Sailor Dude, and a Blue Flower (which yes, I do think probably represents Jon, but not necessarily as a love interest or "Husband". His Possible Targaryen Blood is of interest and significance enough to Dany to warrant its inclusion in the vision) does not mean that she is going to marry, or has married, any or all of them.

General comment: If some people want to just throw up their hands and say, "Well it could mean anything!" then they are welcome to do that. If they want to disagree with me, then they are welcome to do that. Okay? My contention is that they mean what I think they mean. I am holding to that position.

[Courtland]

General comment: If some people want to just throw up their hands and say, "Well it could mean anything!" then they are welcome to do that. If they want to disagree with me, then they are welcome to do that. Okay? My contention is that they mean what I think they mean. I am holding to that position.

I am not throwing up my hands and Saying "Well it could mean Anything!". For example I think we are all generally in agreement about who almost all of the images depict (I am assuming you are also subscribing to the Blue-flower=jon bit). WHat I am asking you to do, is to stop insisting that the titles the undying use for Dany, and the POSSIBLE Imagery in her visions are self-explanatory road maps. They might be, and I don't discount the possibility that they are, I just wish you stop treating it like a foregone conclusion.

You are more than welcome to your opinion and your theory. You are welcome to your position and welcome to hold to it. Just please recognize that it requires you to be rather arbitrary (not necessarily a bad thing) about WHAT you interpret and HOW you interpret it on more than one level. Even if I grant you that "Bride of Fire" means what you say, it is still not entirely clear who Corpse boy is. Even if it means a Greyjoy as you think it does (and I have always granted that as a possibility), I think we CAN rule out certain people, like EURON, specifically because I Dont, think "Well it could Mean ANYTHING!". If the symbolism is going to be meaningful, then it has to fit, and for it to fit, it has to REALLY fit. Thats the only point I have been trying to make all along: the SYmbolism doesn't fit Euron.

my $.10

[Jon Targaryen]

Well, I think we can agree that we have contrary opinions. I have my opinion. I'm sorry if it irks people if I hold my opinion strongly.

[Courtland]

Well, I think we can agree that we have contrary opinions. I have my opinion. I'm sorry if it irks people if I hold my opinion strongly.

The only thing that irks me is your seeming insistance that the only correct interpretation is yours; That you ARE and MUST be right. To hold an opinion strongly is fine, to dictate to others what some rather unclear and disputed symbolism (if it even is symbolism and not just imagery) absolutely means is rather rude and presumptuous. You seem to be objectively dictating that you are right and everyone else IS wrong, when there is evidence to the contrary, at least about Euron.

Thats is what Irks, and its entirely avoidable on your part by being less absolute and dogmatic.

my $.10

[Jon Targaryen]

Fine. Everything I have said in this thread is my opinion.

[jon tarkaryen]

The point is that they are a jumble, and the Undying saying "Bride of Fire", and SHowing us Dany's Horse, a dead Sailor Dude, and a Blue Flower (which yes, I do think probably represents Jon, but not necessarily as a love interest or "Husband".

and they are all simbols.but there is another connection.lion might represent Tyrion(who is possibly Targ),Jon(who is also probably Targ),and Greyjoy(Euron or Victarion,probably "mount to dread").so probably,"dead" sailor is Greyjoy

[Guest rhaenys]

Here's my (admittedly totally unasked for) 2 cents: there are two items in dispute here: (1) that "bride" in the prophecy indicates that the images are of Dany's husbands, and (2) that the grey dude is a greyjoy.

On (1), I have to ask, is it disputed that the man being referred to along with horse is Drogo? If not, that is one figure who is clearly a husband. Really, Drogo has no significance at all for the story beyond being Dany's husband. Also, Jon seems to be indicated, and I'd say it's as least as likely as not that he marries Dany. Now that leaves everything about half and half - one husband, one 'who-knows-if-its-a-husband' and one probable (50%) husband. However, the undying ones say 'bride.' Coincidence? Methinks not. Therefore, it seems as though it's more likely than not that that particular section of the prophecy refers to husbands. More likely than not is my contention.

On (2), there are a number elements (a) corpse, ( prow of a ship, © eyes bright, (d) dead face (e) grey lips smiling sadly.

(a) Okay, corpse and the 'dead' part of 'dead face' probably aren't going to help us out a lot, b/c we don't know whose going to die, unless it refers to the undying, warlocks, or someone who is becoming one of them, like Euron, or a wight, or Gregor or something (who I don't think has lips).

( Prow of a ship: tends to indicate either Greyjoys, Aurane Waters, or the Redwynes, but it is the Ironborn whose prows are most often referred to in the series.

© Eyes bright - well, this is the one that's really been throwing everyone for a loop, yeah? Could be Euron - his one eye is bright blue, and is other eye is something crazy. Could be wights, since they have bright blue eyes. Could be an Other, too, right? Who knows, maybe its coldhands. Big problem with the wight stuff - I don't see any of them heading out of Westeros anytime soon, particularly on a ship, but I suppose it's possible.

(d) Dead face - well, again, there's a face, so that rules out Gregor. I'd call this a nuetral factor, excepting the dead part.

(e) And, here we get to cause of so much trouble...grey lips smiling sadly. Must they be the lips attached to the dead face? Can they be both that and symbolic? Seems to me the best answer is to treat it as both - the second husband will die, he's already sad or soon to be sad, and he's a Greyjoy. This is actually, and interestingly, starting to give me a Theon feeling, but again, Victorian and Euron (less so) are in more of a position to see Dany and have presently manifested an intention to marry her.

In the end, a and d are neutral, because anyone could be dead, and b and e weigh in favor of a Greyjoy. I suppose a, c, d could all weigh in favor of a wight or something, but the ship thing would weigh against that pretty heavily, whereas bright eyes does not weigh against the Greyjoys in the same way.

Therefore, I would also say that it's more likely than not that the prophecy refers to a Greyjoy. One large factor not mentioned in the prophecy but that has run throughout my analysis is that they are already heading towards her.

If someone can show that it more likely than not that it's NOT a Greyjoy, either by showing me that there is a flaw in my analysis, or by adding points that I have neglected, feel free, but otherwise, I will remain convinced.

Sorry for the really long post, but it seemed to me a little organization was in order.

EDIT: Oh I am such an idiot! Obviously they are dead because ALL the ironborn are dead - "what is dead can never die." If we can agree on the likelihood of that (admittedly nothing is absolute), I'll add it into my analysis.

[jon tarkaryen]

Here's my (admittedly totally unasked for) 2 cents: there are two items in dispute here: (1) that "bride" in the prophecy indicates that the images are of Dany's husbands, and (2) that the grey dude is a greyjoy.

On (1), I have to ask, is it disputed that the man being referred to along with horse is Drogo? If not, that is one figure who is clearly a husband. Really, Drogo has no significance at all for the story beyond being Dany's husband. Also, Jon seems to be indicated, and I'd say it's as least as likely as not that he marries Dany. Now that leaves everything about half and half - one husband, one 'who-knows-if-its-a-husband' and one probable (50%) husband. However, the undying ones say 'bride.' Coincidence? Methinks not. Therefore, it seems as though it's more likely than not that that particular section of the prophecy refers to husbands. More likely than not is my contention.

On (2), there are a number elements (a) corpse, ( prow of a ship, � eyes bright, (d) dead face (e) grey lips smiling sadly.

(a) Okay, corpse and the 'dead' part of 'dead face' probably aren't going to help us out a lot, b/c we don't know whose going to die, unless it refers to the undying, warlocks, or someone who is becoming one of them, like Euron, or a wight, or Gregor or something (who I don't think has lips).

( Prow of a ship: tends to indicate either Greyjoys, Aurane Waters, or the Redwynes, but it is the Ironborn whose prows are most often referred to in the series.

� Eyes bright - well, this is the one that's really been throwing everyone for a loop, yeah? Could be Euron - his one eye is bright blue, and is other eye is something crazy. Could be wights, since they have bright blue eyes. Could be an Other, too, right? Who knows, maybe its coldhands. Big problem with the wight stuff - I don't see any of them heading out of Westeros anytime soon, particularly on a ship, but I suppose it's possible.

(d) Dead face - well, again, there's a face, so that rules out Gregor. I'd call this a nuetral factor, excepting the dead part.

(e) And, here we get to cause of so much trouble...grey lips smiling sadly. Must they be the lips attached to the dead face? Can they be both that and symbolic? Seems to me the best answer is to treat it as both - the second husband will die, he's already sad or soon to be sad, and he's a Greyjoy. This is actually, and interestingly, starting to give me a Theon feeling, but again, Victorian and Euron (less so) are in more of a position to see Dany and have presently manifested an intention to marry her.

In the end, a and d are neutral, because anyone could be dead, and b and e weigh in favor of a Greyjoy. I suppose a, c, d could all weigh in favor of a wight or something, but the ship thing would weigh against that pretty heavily, whereas bright eyes does not weigh against the Greyjoys in the same way.

Therefore, I would also say that it's more likely than not that the prophecy refers to a Greyjoy. One large factor not mentioned in the prophecy but that has run throughout my analysis is that they are already heading towards her.

If someone can show that it more likely than not that it's NOT a Greyjoy, either by showing me that there is a flaw in my analysis, or by adding points that I have neglected, feel free, but otherwise, I will remain convinced.

Sorry for the really long post, but it seemed to me a little organization was in order.

EDIT: Oh I am such an idiot! Obviously they are dead because ALL the ironborn are dead - "what is dead can never die." If we can agree on the likelihood of that (admittedly nothing is absolute), I'll add it into my analysis.

all nicely said and I agree with you.and for gray lips smiling sadly,it possible,as someone said,that thats Euron smiling sadly because he has to kill his brother that betrayed him(or maybe thats Victarion?).

[Bog_Devil_of_Crannog]

A thought just occured to me here, and I thought I'd toss it out for everyone.

The Greyjoy longships have highly decorated prows, which most often represent people.

Could it be a possibility that the description of bright eyes (I believe I remember they were described as mother of pearl?) and grey lips (grey is indeed the color of weathered wood) smiling sadly be referring to said prow and not a person?

I haven't gone and re-checked the passages to see the validity, since I'm working, so if it's full of holes, my apologies.

[jon tarkaryen]

A thought just occured to me here, and I thought I'd toss it out for everyone.

The Greyjoy longships have highly decorated prows, which most often represent people.

Could it be a possibility that the description of bright eyes (I believe I remember they were described as mother of pearl?) and grey lips (grey is indeed the color of weathered wood) smiling sadly be referring to said prow and not a person?

I haven't gone and re-checked the passages to see the validity, since I'm working, so if it's full of holes, my apologies.

umm possible,but it can not be "Silence" prow.its woman has no mouth.and I guess Euron would travel only on "Silence".

[Courtland]

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

a figurehead does not "stand" on the Prow of a ship so much as it IS the Prow of a ship, or at least is part of it.

But your right to point out that it couldn't possibly be Silence, so again, no EURON.

my $.10