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brashcandy

From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa VIII

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So, I ended up having a...few...glasses of wine last night and watching Clueless and ended up taking notes of some random similarities that I saw between the characters Cher and Sansa. This is not groundbreaking or earth shattering in any way; I won't even call this insightful but I figured I'd share anyways just in case someone wants to read it. And please remember, I was not entirely sober when putting this together.

-Elton is kind of like Joffrey.

- The valley party is similar to the Hand’s tourney. Sansa needed help from Sandor to get back and Cher ends up asking for help from Josh.

- Decides to save her virginity for someone who is worth it

- crush on Josh is like Sansa’s crush on Loras

- Cher first sees Josh as a brother while Sansa first sees Sandor as a protector. It takes both characters time to view the men in a different light

-Cher’s advice on how to flirt with a man reminds me of Sansa’s advice to Jon to always compliment a girl’s name.

- Cher sees Josh dancing at the party and starts to change her opinion of him. Similar to how Sansa begins to change her opinion of Sandor after he rescues her from the riot.

- Cher realizes that Tai likes Travis and appreciates that rather than the idea that Tai should like someone who is “good enough”. This is very similar to discussions we have had on the topic of Hero Points, “the heart has reasons….”

- Josh is older than Cher just as Sandor is older than Sansa

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Erm.....enough of my Norse god rant.....back to Sansa! Maybe Sansa is LF's Idunn ? :)

She was known as a rejuvenating force, which is something we've noted about Sansa in the past and the symbolism of the white cloaks.

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Similar to how Sansa begins to change her opinion of Sandor after he rescues her from the riot.

So you think the riot was a really pivotal event in their relationship? Throwing this out to the rest of the thread as well :)

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Well, I won't deny it. I'm a man (16... still pretty young) and it arouses me whenever there is a scene that includes her partially naked/defenseless (scenes with Joffrey, Littlefinger, Tyrion...)

However, I would rather prefer to see her beeing a player in the GoT and be "whole" again than be that helpless restless poor beautiful poor puppet.

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That's because Molly is the stay at home mum. that's pretty much her entire character. She is a non-threatening female, whose entire life revolves around the men in her life, and her only female daughter is the main love interest for the protagonist. That's her arc. (maybe I'm getting a little too worked up now) The shit I see posted about Cat being a terrible mother because she didn't go home to her youngest sons. Ie. home, here she belonged. It makes my blood boil.

BTW Kittykk, Can't wait to see what that OP is going to be!!

It's hard for me to imagine why anyone should dislike Molly Weasley. I thought that feminism, originally, was supposed to give women choices; so that they could have opportunities to fairly compete in the workplace or, if they preferred and could afford to, stay at home and care for the kids. She's kind-hearted, a good mother; and you definitely want her fighting at your side in a magical Armageddon.

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Overall, very positive, with a few glaring exceptions along the way in AGOT. Sansa is truly I think one of the strongest characters in ASOIAF and Martin has managed to depict this without sacrificing her femininity or her compassion for others. The relationship dynamic between her and Sandor is also one of the best within the novels and it's really fascinating how Martin shows them challenging and changing one another, whilst also gradually developing romantic feelings. I just hope that we're going to continue to see the proper development of her story in the next two books and this will entail IMO:

- the continued focus on sisterhood in her story - this time with a genuine relationship fostered with Mya Stone and/or Randa Royce.

- no more victimization

- continued exploration of her sexual awakening

- reconnection with Sandor for a myriad of purposes

- genuine attempt to save Sweetrobin

- political* success which does not subjugate personal happiness

- no sustained identity crises

* Political here not only referring to Queenship, but perhaps regent to one of her brothers, helping to rebuild Winterfell or success in private enterprise.

I agree completely on the continuation of her storyline in the next two books. I'm curious how much of this will happen and to what degree though. Would anyone else want to explore how likely the above is to happen? I see the continued focus on sisterhood but I have a strong feeling we are going to see her further victimized by LF before things begin to get better.

Anyway, I just got through reading volume one of the Fervor thread. Phew! You know what it really solidified for me? That one of the biggest issues with how Sansa is perceived is that she goes up against the two most favored characters in the entire series - Arya and Tyrion. It's so frustrating because it seems to really blind people to some of the things Sansa has done and to her strengths. Plus it seemed to lead to some real contradictory thoughts like, Sansa doesn't do anything, but when she does do something like defy Ned or shut down Tyrion then she's castigated for her action. Also, it really brought to light Kittykat's recent comments about the POV structure. People kept throwing out things about why she should trust Tyrion that were solely based on what we as readers know about him but not what Sansa would have any reason to know. It was very frustrating, but at least I will be hyper aware of this the next time I do a reread.

Yes!!! Here are Sansa's "crimes":

1. She is put in the position of the antagonist against Arya and Tyrion, who are consistently the most favorite characters in the series.

2. She was not close to Jon, the 3rd most popular character in the series. Note that we have hints all of the other Stark siblings were closer to Jon.

3. It is mentioned many times that she looks like her mother, also one of the most hated characters in the series.

4. She does not use a sword and does not know any magic.

5. She "betrayed" Ned, one of the most popular and beloved characters in the series.

6. She had the gall to be made a prisoner and have her agency taken from her. To make it worse, she did not "do something".

7. Martin is playing the long game with her and readers don't see that easily enough.

Are there any others that I am missing?

Yes, your example on POV is what I notice more and more on re-reads. I'm pretty familiar with the big theories and whatnot that are out there. My focus with the book right now is better understanding the characters and impact of POVs and unreliable narrator. The idea that Sansa should trust Tyrion is one of the strongest examples that I can think of where the use of POVs is not taken in to account. The killing of Lady is another one.

The PoV issue is really interesting. During my most recent re-read of AGoT and ACoK, I pretended that I knew nothing of some of the other characters' chapters. I read Sansa's chapters as if they were a stand-alone story, and to me she seemed much more of a protagonist* even as early as in AGoT than simply Arya's foil.

*Obviously, Sansa is always a protagonist and sympathetic character to me. What I mean is that if I did not have a different context already for her chapters (aka the rest of the ASoIaF chapters in AGoT), I would have no reason not to read Sansa's chapters straight, and be just as shocked as she is when her dreams turn to dust. I just wish other readers could put themselves in her shoes this way....as brashcandy said, we are learning here to not just read and re-read Sansa's PoV, but also to *see* through her point of view. :)

I just finished GOT a couple days ago and took a similar approach with Sansa's chapters. I tried to read them as if I had no idea what else was going on in the story and it really hit me just how little information she had. This is not do to a naive or shallow nature, as sometimes suggested. Really, she was being kept in the dark about everything that was happening in KL, no one gave her any information at all. While she was locked in the room, she wondered if the entire Red Keep was under attack. Yes, I think brashcandy said it really well with the idea that we "see" through her eyes. That is exactly what happens in each POV chapter.

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Haven't read the Fervor thread (and from what you are saying here I doubt I ever will). However, regarding the POV structure, I think Tyrion's popularity took a hit with ADWD, and even Arya's did. In comparison, Jon Snow's popularity seems to be on an all time high, and criticising him or his story arc for anything will easily get you so beaten up you need a full kevlar armour. Stannis is moving into the same territory, although he was not as popular before. Dany is on her way down as a lot of people found her difficulty to lead annoying and her lack of burninating things with her dragons thoroughly disappointing.

I have no idea, honestly. It's so bad that it's hard to find one Dany thread where you can have a productive discussion about her. Maybe in the Dany/Jon reread, but still...

Good points. I agree that the popularity of Tyrion and Arya took a hit, but I'm not sure how much of one. I still think there is a good chance Tyrion is going to become a villian in the series. I don't hate Dany, there is some I like about her and some I don't. But, she doesn't come close to deserving the amount of hate this board inflicts on her. My theory is that her "crime" is that she suffered from the Mereen knot. If her first Dance chapter had her walking on a boat to head back to Westeros, I think perception of her character would be much more positive. Instead of doing that, Martin chose to bring characters towards her. I understand why he made that decision but the reaction to it doesn't surprise me.

As to the Fervor thread, it's a tough read. I'm seeing perspectives of many that I agree with who are doing a great job trying to explain where I and many others here are coming from. Personally, I'm loving myths' posts over there. It's a tough slog though to read some of it. It is not pleasant, the best reason I can give to look is that it helps to see where others are coming from, the better to prepare arguments for future discussion.

Personally, I think the POV structure and how it describes the various characters a rather clever and sometimes almost deceptive way of describing the characters. While having a novel written from the third person limited is not so unusual, the way it is employed with a myriad of POVs and how they sometimes describe, or think about, the same situations, makes it easier that certain POVs appear "stronger" or more important, as if certain voices drown out others. Tyrion's and Arya's are two such voices in ACOK for instance. You have Ned,. Dany and Tyrion in AGOT, while in ASOS you probably have Tyrion, Jon and Arya. At least this is how I initially read the novels. Judging by the "strength" of their POV voices, this was how I originally saw it. But then on rereads, the "landscape" starts to change. Only by really paying attention to all the POVs and the details in the chapters can you really get a grip on the character.

It's like when people think Jaime is completely oblivious and never feels bad about throwing Bran out of the window. Now, Jaime is a contradictory and complex character and sometimes he thinks well of himself, and sometimes he doesn't, but it's pretty clear from his thoughts about sinners to Ser Bonifer Hasty that he knows he has done an enormous about of wrong in his life. I think sometimes, people expect wallowing, or they expect a lot of waxing on regret, which they are not always going to get.

Sansa's thoughts on Arya and Jon are similar: a lot of people tend to think since they are brief, they may as well be non existent, but they are still there. Sansa even thinks to herself she cannot let herself wallow and she thinks too much crying is "unseemly".

One of the few characters who really wallows and engages in a lot of self pity is Tyrion, so I am guessing that is why he gets so much sympathy from the readers. For instance, Dany's and Sansa's and even Cat's thoughts are normally more spare (even if Dany has a couple of really heartbreaking moments in ADWD: how people feel she's some megalomaniac evil cackling nemesis of Westeros I just can't fathom).

Anyway, to bring this back on track somewhat. People do get confused by the POV structure, and why I think it's a great way of describing the story, people who don't really catch on to how it can both expose and hide elements of the story will probably read a multiple third person limited in the same way they'd read a third person omniscient. Then in my view, you also have the varying voices with varying "strength" and then without taking a step back it's easy to get dragged along without paying much attention to why this or these particular voices should be more important or more correct than others.

Yes, I think you are correct. I think Sansa is dismissed as merely a lens for us to view the story is because of her voice. Sansa does not have a strong voice in the way that Tyrion and Arya do, causing her to be dismissed. Not sure if this will make sense, but Sansa does not appear to be an introspective character the way that Tyrion is even though I think she is, Sansa just does not reveal that in her thoughts to us. She internalizes and chooses to concentrate on what is in front of her, but that does not mean it is taking place. Does this make sense? What frustrates me the most is that this perception causes readers to think she is not that important to the story despite the fact that she has been a POV since the first book, one of only six characters in the entire series who we can say that about.

I think readers sometimes forget with the POV stucture that different people think in different ways. So, Jaime does not reflect on Bran all the time but that does not mean he is unaware that his actions were wrong. Some of us are more reflective, some of us internalize, some of us are expressive to others with what we think, some of us are more emotional while others are more logical. And that is exactly what is happening with the different characters. These differences lead readers to judgements that can be incorrect. Hence, Sansa is perceived to be shallow despite the fact that she is a very empathatic and compassionate person.

Tyrion's self-pity and witty sense of humor both stood out to me the first time I read the books. I found him humorous and the pain he felt from the judgment's of others reasonated with me. It did not hit me until I better understand the POV structure just how insulting his humor is. Most of the funny statements, while witty,can be demeaning to those he is speaking too. He attributes the dislike to his looks but I think it's more the way he speaks to people. I just don't think Tyrion realizes it.

Salient points. The wedding chapter between Tyrion and Sansa - which has become a hot button topic around these parts- is a striking example of how a lot of readers privilege the strength of one POV's voice over another, even when we're being given the scene from Sansa's perspective. Sansa has the narrative power, and we see that eventually she gains agency within the scene as well based on her (lack of) appreciation of Tyrion's body. The fact that Tyrion is not expecting this, and that Sansa comes to this realisation based on her thorough inspection of his flaws is unequivocally clear in how the scene develops, but still there's a concerted refusal to "see" through her eyes. As I noted upthread, it comes back to male power and privilege and the internalised bias against females who dare to look and appraise. Much better to give all the power to Tyrion in this scene, rather than to see how he has the power stripped from him at every point as the night develops.

Yes, I could not agree more! I think it is important to note that Martin gave Sansa the POV for this night, when she rejects Tyrion with her "Never". To me, the fact that Martin wanted to give her a voice in this chapter shows that he wanted her to have agency at this point. He makes her voiceless during the marriage, giving the POV back to Tyrion. This is the point where we are seeing the impact to his character from her rejection and her use of agency. We next see her POV during the PW, the very day Sansa is planning to escape. What do we see at this point: Sansa's further rejection of Tyrion with "I have no bread to give him", her rejection of his offer to go to the Free Cities and CR, her thoughts that indicate she was willing to kill herself - he was a fate worse than death, and finally, her flight from KL. By escaping, Sansa is not just fleeing the Lannisters but physically rejecting her forced vows and the pretense of being his wife.

Hmmm, is the marriage between these two perhaps the most contoversial issue on this board right now? Trying to think what else may come close.

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I agree completely on the continuation of her storyline in the next two books. I'm curious how much of this will happen and to what degree though. Would anyone else want to explore how likely the above is to happen? I see the continued focus on sisterhood but I have a strong feeling we are going to see her further victimized by LF before things begin to get better.

I'm hoping that his access to her is going to be a bit more difficult now that they are in a busy castle with lots of prying eyes and ears. Of course, this doesn't rule out special "daddy time" in his solar, but he's going have to be careful if he wants to keep up the facade of their relationship. Sansa meanwhile might be finally testing out her warging skills on a few dogs or birds, and strengthening her relationships with Mya Stone and Lothor Brune - things which will gradually work to her advantage.

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So, I ended up having a...few...glasses of wine last night and watching Clueless and ended up taking notes of some random similarities that I saw between the characters Cher and Sansa. This is not groundbreaking or earth shattering in any way; I won't even call this insightful but I figured I'd share anyways just in case someone wants to read it. And please remember, I was not entirely sober when putting this together.

-Elton is kind of like Joffrey.

- The valley party is similar to the Hand’s tourney. Sansa needed help from Sandor to get back and Cher ends up asking for help from Josh.

- Decides to save her virginity for someone who is worth it

- crush on Josh is like Sansa’s crush on Loras

- Cher first sees Josh as a brother while Sansa first sees Sandor as a protector. It takes both characters time to view the men in a different light

-Cher’s advice on how to flirt with a man reminds me of Sansa’s advice to Jon to always compliment a girl’s name.

- Cher sees Josh dancing at the party and starts to change her opinion of him. Similar to how Sansa begins to change her opinion of Sandor after he rescues her from the riot.

- Cher realizes that Tai likes Travis and appreciates that rather than the idea that Tai should like someone who is “good enough”. This is very similar to discussions we have had on the topic of Hero Points, “the heart has reasons….”

- Josh is older than Cher just as Sandor is older than Sansa

Loved this K3. But I think you meant that Cher's crush on Christian is like Sansa's crush on Loras.

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Yes, I think you are correct. I think Sansa is dismissed as merely a lens for us to view the story is because of her voice. Sansa does not have a strong voice in the way that Tyrion and Arya do, causing her to be dismissed. Not sure if this will make sense, but Sansa does not appear to be an introspective character the way that Tyrion is even though I think she is, Sansa just does not reveal that in her thoughts to us. She internalizes and chooses to concentrate on what is in front of her, but that does not mean it is taking place. Does this make sense? What frustrates me the most is that this perception causes readers to think she is not that important to the story despite the fact that she has been a POV since the first book, one of only six characters in the entire series who we can say that about.

Yup, this. Plus of course there's the image of Sansa - beautiful and gentle - which leads people to assume that she's weak willed and passive. As for Sansa not revealing her thoughts to us, that is made clear in the final one she shares with the Hound. After he departs what is she feeling or thinking? Something leads to her to the unkiss, but we have no idea what exactly.

Hmmm, is the marriage between these two perhaps the most contoversial issue on this board right now? Trying to think what else may come close.

Definitely.

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I'm hoping that his access to her is going to be a bit more difficult now that they are in a busy castle with lots of prying eyes and ears. Of course, this doesn't rule out special "daddy time" in his solar, but he's going have to be careful if he wants to keep up the facade of their relationship. Sansa meanwhile might be finally testing out her warging skills on a few dogs or birds, and strengthening her relationships with Mya Stone and Lothor Brune - things which will gradually work to her advantage.

Lucrezia Borgia and Cesare Borgia wouldn't have trouble adjusting in King's Landing. and the actors would look perfect in the series.

and i would just like to go in this thread to say. that sansa stark is the best female character.

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Lucrezia Borgia and Cesare Borgia wouldn't have trouble adjusting in King's Landing. and the actors would look perfect in the series.

ugh I love them sfm

So guys I was thinking about that riot scene since it was mentioned, and well, we don't see it actually happen because it was Tyrion's POV, but then Sansa meets with the Hound "accidentally on purpose" again (what a stalker) and he's SO MEAN to her, idk. She says thanks, and for the most part I think she gives as good as she gets, but he just really pushes it when he talks about her father's body. So I was just wondering if you had analysed that scene in the way you did the serpentine scene.

ETA: it's kinda funny when he brags about saving her though, like "yeahh it was 30 to 1 but it was like, no biggie"

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So I was just wondering if you had analysed that scene in the way you did the serpentine scene.

Thanks to Lyanna who provided the links on the first pg:

brashcandy's interesting thoughts on the scene at the top of the Red Keep before the Battle of the Blackwater

I'm still interested in exploring the actual events of the riot though and why it's important. :)

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Regarding Sansa and Tyrion's 'marriage' as the most controversial topic on the boards: I was honestly shocked beyond belief when I came here and realized that there was such a large number of readers who a) blame Sansa for not appreciating Tyrion during this time, b ) think Sansa was being shallow for 'rejecting' him, and c) actually hope that Sansa will 'wake up' and come to appreciate Tyrion someday, and be happy to resume said 'marriage' (!).

I was so incredibly shocked because even from my very first read (back when Sansa wasn't even my favourite character yet!), I was never anything but extremely upset and disgusted for her and with that whole horrible 'wedding'. So yeah...it is crazy to realize how differently people read the PoVs in this series.

ETA: Yes, brash, I'd love to discuss the riot scene in more depth. I just re-read it the other day, and I noticed that in Tyrion's PoV of that scene, Sansa comes across as extremely sweet and gentle, especially in comparsion to Joffrey. You see how she tries to calm him, but of course he doesn't listen. Her gentleness makes the the dread after realizing that she's been lost in the chaos all the more palpable. She really does seem like the damsel in distress here, and Martin specifically shows that the supposed knights in this situation are to daft and powerless to do anything. The rest of the Kingsguard is too craven to even go back out to get Sansa. I'd also forgotten that they initially thought the Hound had gone down in the mess as well like the knight who was overcome by the crowd (Ser Preston?), as he could not be found at first. It was like a prelude to the Blackwater when Sandor really cannot be found because he has fled. (It makes the fact that he went for Sansa *yet again* during the Blackwater much less surprising.....of course he would come for her --- to him, she was once again in mortal danger.) It is all the more dramatic when Sansa and Sandor both return on horseback together, one of the few times when they are even 'seen' together in public. Tyrion's PoV is more concerned about the relief felt that Jaime's life won't be forfeit than about the curiosity of that scene, however, so much of this gets missed by readers.

I also adore the fact that Sandor goes back out into the burning part of Fleabottom (?) to look for Stranger, the other love of his life. ;)

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Thank you Brash! :)

I was so incredibly shocked because even from my very first read, I have never been anything but upset and disgusted for Sansa and with that whole 'wedding'. So yeah...it is crazy to realize how differently people read the PoVs in this series.

Um, yes, mte. Before I came to this forum it never even occurred to me that anyone could possibly read about that marriage, feel sorry for Tyrion and admonish Sansa. Reading that Sansa POV with the wedding/wedding night and the subsequent Tyrion POVs just makes me feel so, idk, angry and upset and disgusted, it's so claustrophobic.

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Thank you Brash! :)

Um, yes, mte. Before I came to this forum it never even occurred to me that anyone could possibly read about that marriage, feel sorry for Tyrion and admonish Sansa. Reading that Sansa POV with the wedding/wedding night and the subsequent Tyrion POVs just makes me feel so, idk, angry and upset and disgusted, it's so claustrophobic.

Oh my goodness, yes, me too.....I have to skip over her marriage to Tyrion when I am re-reading, because it just makes me *that* upset. :(

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ETA: Yes, brash, I'd love to discuss the riot scene in more depth. I just re-read it the other day, and I noticed that in Tyrion's PoV of that scene, Sansa comes across as extremely sweet and gentle, especially in comparsion to Joffrey. You see how she tries to calm him, but of course he doesn't listen. Her gentleness makes the the dread after realizing that she's been lost in the chaos all the more palpable. She really does seem like the damsel in distress here, and Martin specifically shows that the supposed knights in this situation are to daft and powerless to do anything. The rest of the Kingsguard is too craven to even go back out to get Sansa. I'd also forgotten that they initially thought the Hound had gone down in the mess as well like the knight who was overcome by the crowd (Ser Preston?), as he could not be found at first. It was like a prelude to the Blackwater when Sandor really cannot be found because he has fled. (It makes the fact that he went for Sansa *yet again* during the Blackwater much less surprising.....of course he would come for her --- to him, she was once again in mortal danger.) It is all the more dramatic when Sansa and Sandor both return on horseback together, one of the few times when they are even 'seen' together in public. Tyrion's PoV is more concerned about the relief felt that Jaime's life won't be forfeit than about the curiosity of that scene, however, so much of this gets missed by readers.

I also adore the fact that Sandor goes back out into the burning part of Fleabottom (?) to look for Stranger, the other love of his life. ;)

Hm, I love this! And I guess that supports the interpretation that he did go to her room to get her out of KL. But he was just so out of it that he couldn't even communicate that.

And there's also the fact that Flea Bottom's burning and Tyrion orders him to go back, and then sees the fear of Sandor's face. He goes, but remarks that "it's not because he ordered, but because he wants to find his horse". In the Blackwater we get the same thing, Tyrion ordering him to go into the wildfire, and the fear on his face, but by then he just had enough and quits.

It makes so much sense to think of the riot+the conversation after the riot as some sort of trial run for the Blackwater, I mean, I had never seen it that way.

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I think I'll have to watch Clueless and Thor now too :) (haven't watched them yet)

Looking forward to what you people will come up with wrt the riot scene - personally I always thought it a pity we don't have Sansa's POV when it actually happens. We only have her memories, but I'm not sure I trust those completely, and of course they don't tell us what she was actually thinking at the time.

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I am actually rereading my favorite POVs. GRRM is such a great writer - everytime when I reread a special POV or only a special scene, I discover some new facts or hinds which I surprisingly did not noticed before. This time I recognized for the first time the parallels between Sansa and Sandor AFTER they got separated and fled KL: Both disappear and changed their identities to be safe and to stay anonymous. They are both wanted for crimes not committed by them (Sandor for Saltpans and Sansa for Kingslaying) and both are hunted by the Lannisters. But what I found really interesting is the fact that EB watches over Sandor and keeps him hidden and LF controls Sansa. So both are controlled by a single person who is – amazingly - an older man.

However, my most favorite scenes in Sansa’s POVs are absolutely all scenes with Sandor and your analyzing these scenes (red keep, Blackwater) is brilliant! So go ahead with the riot, I am excited to read your opinions.

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I am actually rereading my favorite POVs. GRRM is such a great writer - everytime when I reread a special POV or only a special scene, I discover some new facts or hinds which I surprisingly did not noticed before. This time I recognized for the first time the parallels between Sansa and Sandor AFTER they got separated and fled KL: Both disappear and changed their identities to be safe and to stay anonymous. They are both wanted for crimes not committed by them (Sandor for Saltpans and Sansa for Kingslaying) and both are hunted by the Lannisters. But what I found really interesting is the fact that EB watches over Sandor and keeps him hidden and LF controls Sansa. So both are controlled by a single person who is – amazingly - an older man.

However, my most favorite scenes in Sansa’s POVs are absolutely all scenes with Sandor and your analyzing these scenes (red keep, Blackwater) is brilliant! So go ahead with the riot, I am excited to read your opinions.

Ha, that's fantastic! I had found on tumblr a little list of parallels between them (by littlebirdclegane), which expands a little bit on what you said (I made some changes to the original because I didn't agree with the whole thing):

  • Both start out as children who hold great ideals. Sansa is a proper lady, sheltered by her parents in the apolitical North, with great aspirations for marriage. Sandor is a child who dreams of being a knight, from escaping his monstrous brother, and becoming the true knight hero from the stories. Both rely on stories and songs for their idealistic world view.
  • Young, both have these visions marred. They are dehumanized by society and court life. Gregor burns Sandor, and yet still earns the title of knight, while their father tells everyone a false story to protect Gregor. In the eyes of society Sandor is a monster, and his brother's crimes are often attributed to him. He earns the persona/dehumanized moniker of the Hound. The Hound knows no love or mercy, only violence. Joffrey cuts off Sansa's father's head right in front of her, and she is then emotionally and physically abused by him and the Kingsguard (supposed to be the finest knights in the kingdom) while no one does anything to help her. It is only Sandor who tries to tell Sansa some truths about knights and court life. It’s interesting to note the first use of ‘little bird’ is right after he tells her the story of his burns, right after Gregor’s tourney win.
  • They both belong to the Lannisters, but neither are at this point loyal to them. As the Lannister dog and captive both have quite the bit to learn from and about each other as they both try to navigate court as personas non gratas and survive Joffrey’s turbulent and sadistic reign.
  • On the night of Blackwater, they are the complete deconstruction of the true knight and fair maiden. Both walk away from the little bit of the child-like vision of the songs they still hold in their heads. Sandor abandons his cloak and Sansa refuses to go with him.
  • Sansa becomes Tyrion’s wife, and is forced completely away from being a Stark, but yet she is not a Lannister. Nor truly Tyrion’s wife, as their marriage remains unconsummated, and his thoughts are on his first and “true” wife, Tysha. Sandor’s helm is picked up by an outlaw and gets blamed for his sack of the Saltpans.
  • By now they are both wanted for crimes they did not commit: Sansa for Joffrey's death, and Sandor for Saltpans. Both are hunted by Lannisters and yet have nowhere to go.
  • Both disappear, shucking their identities to survive. Sansa flees KL and becomes Alayne Stone, and is still a captive and a pawn, but safe from the Lannisters who want her in relation to Joffrey’s death. Sandor ‘dies’ and becomes the Gravedigger, anonymous and safe from the Lannisters and the rest of the Riverlands who want him dead for his “crimes.” Both are wanted by the Lannisters and society for crimes they didn’t commit. Both are in hiding and under the control of an older man.
  • In their respective hiding places, both are learning something from a mentor: Sansa is learning to play the game, Sandor is trying to shed the Hound persona and gentle his rage.

So, thoughts?

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