How would the Northmen do if Ned was commanding Robb's forces?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Things would go differently: if, on one hand, Tywin wouldn't underestimate him like he did with Robb, on the other the likes of Bolton and Dustin wouldn't send only a half-strength force out of fear, and with him in command, Frey would most likely just let him pass if Ned needed to go through the Twins, or at least with not such a demanding deal.

Theon would have never gone to battle in the first place, staying in Winterfell. Balon wouldn't dare make a move.

Also, if Ned is in the fight, the Vale, led by Yohn Royce, would almost surely joined the war.

An actual disadvantage to Ned leading:

Ned would have to fight his way through Golden Tooth as a passage into the Westerlands, which Robb didn't have to do because Grey Wind smelled a way around it. That would weaken Ned's forces before entering the West.

Ned being around doesn't mean that Robb wouldn't go to war, he just wouldn't be commander.

Plus, the war would be vastly different. It's possible he wouldn't even need to go West.

If Ned's fifteen year old green as grass son can kick the lannisters asses from the river lands to the west while outnumbered I'm pretty sure Ned has a fair chance. And regarding Ned's skill I am basing this on Robb and Jons skill, later I will take the time to go through Smm and try to find a quote from grrm.

I agree. Robert was said to be rash and impulsive in battle, with Ned being more cautions and smart. And there's no reason to assume Ned wasn't at least as good as Robb- and certainly MUCH better than Tywin, who showed no skill in the battlefield to be ranked among the greatest military minds; there isn't a single instance of him winning without having overwhelming superior numbers.

[E-Ro]

@winterfell is burning I agree, When Robert was wounded the command was given to Ned, not Jon arryn, not hoster tully, and not stannis. I also agree with you on tywins skill as a general, he is really more of a politician. In the tywin as a battle commander thread I go over the reasons why he is more of a politician. And also express my disdain at tywins plan for the gf, it makes no sense.(but as I said this is not tywins fault it's grrm)

[The Mother of The Others]

Ned had already had his day. There's no guarantee his northern luck would have held up again for a second tour of duty. Robert's luck had faded. In fact, the gods foreshadow the death of Ned by sending their blessings to his children, not to him, which implies the gods had already written Ned off as a loss. So, to answer the question, a northern revenge army led by Ned would have had only the normal level of success, not the inspired success Robb had on the field. Ned wouldn't have done quite as well. He'd have performed competently in every way, but he wouldn't have had such a powerful guardian angel factor watching over him.

[MCBC]

Ned would have wanted at the Lannisters but had it had been reversed Ned wouldnt have known the truth about Cersei & her children. I think he would have tried to do what Cat did which was try to get Renly & Stannis to make peace. Would he have had more of a chance to convince them? Probably not. You get the sense that Renly & Stannis were both jealous of Ned because of the close friendship he had with Robert. Stannis especially with his "Ned Stark was no friend of mine!" rants.

[Chaircat Meow]

@winterfell is burning I agree, When Robert was wounded the command was given to Ned, not Jon arryn, not hoster tully, and not stannis. I also agree with you on tywins skill as a general, he is really more of a politician. In the tywin as a battle commander thread I go over the reasons why he is more of a politician. And also express my disdain at tywins plan for the gf, it makes no sense.(but as I said this is not tywins fault it's grrm)

Just because Robert delegated command to Ned when he was wounded doesn't do anything to prove he was really the brains behind the whole operation.

[E-Ro]

You are correct, I currently have no Internet (damn storms) this is my phone, as I said I will go through Ssm when I get a chance,seriously the mods should really fix Ssm it's a pain to navigate.

[Frey Pie]

I still dont get this whole Tywin is greater than or equal to Ned on the field. It has been pointed out that not much is said about Neds part in the rebellion. Yet he was a commander and we know he won a major battle called the Battle of the Bells. He also played a major part in the Greyjoy Rebellion. He fought in and helped win two wars. Both of his sons are extremely competent leaders and commanders. Robb in particular shows great battle acumen. Maester Luwin didnt teach them this. It wasnt Jon or Hoster who led the rebels when Robert was injured, it was Ned so we must assume he was deemed the best option.

We have no record of Tywins battle competency. He won the GF but against a lesser opponent and army and as E-Ro has pointed out his plan made no mistake. So either he or George messed up those plans. He lost to Edmure and that saved his bacon. Moving West was a stupid move which would have ended the Lannisters. His Lannister fleet was burned during Balons rebellion, docked in his own city by Victarion.

Now im not saying Tywin isnt a good commander. Hes smart, ruthless and able but unless im missing something id have to assume from this that Ned would be a better commander, with more field experience than Tywin

[E-Ro]

Regarding the green fork, I really think that was grrm's mistake not tywins, no commander would use such a suicidal move, seriously if he tried that against all of Robb's strength he would have been a goner.

[Chaircat Meow]

I still dont get this whole Tywin is greater than or equal to Ned on the field. It has been pointed out that not much is said about Neds part in the rebellion. Yet he was a commander and we know he won a major battle called the Battle of the Bells. He also played a major part in the Greyjoy Rebellion. He fought in and helped win two wars. Both of his sons are extremely competent leaders and commanders. Robb in particular shows great battle acumen. Maester Luwin didnt teach them this. It wasnt Jon or Hoster who led the rebels when Robert was injured, it was Ned so we must assume he was deemed the best option.

We have no record of Tywins battle competency. He won the GF but against a lesser opponent and army and as E-Ro has pointed out his plan made no mistake. So either he or George messed up those plans. He lost to Edmure and that saved his bacon. Moving West was a stupid move which would have ended the Lannisters. His Lannister fleet was burned during Balons rebellion, docked in his own city by Victarion.

Now im not saying Tywin isnt a good commander. Hes smart, ruthless and able but unless im missing something id have to assume from this that Ned would be a better commander, with more field experience than Tywin

You could say the same about Tywin. He was at the tBoBWB even if it isn't stated he was the c-in-c but he must have played a major role (he was the senior lord there). His son, Tyrion, is also very competent.

He was also responsible for planning the initial lannister victory over the Tully's and he destroyed the Reynes and Tarbecks and we don't know what kind of military challenge that was, but we can't assume he had all the bannermen of the westerlands behind him.

Ned has never been said to have been in overall command of a battle. All we hear about the Bells is that Robert said Ned won it not him. Does that mean he was in overall command or did he just do really great commanding his division. Who knows?

[StarkWhite]

Pure conjecture. Best scenario: Ned whoops everyone's ass. Worst: RW with a direwolf's head sewn to his body. How is anyone supposed to really answer this?

[Frey Pie]

You could say the same about Tywin. He was at the tBoBWB even if it isn't stated he was the c-in-c but he must have played a major role (he was the senior lord there). His son, Tyrion, is also very competent.

He was also responsible for planning the initial lannister victory or the Tully's and he destroyed the Reynes and Tarbecks and we don't know what kind of military challenge that was, but we can't assume he had all the bannermen of the westerlands behind him.

Ned has never been said to have been in overall command of a battle. All we here about the Bells is that Robert said Ned won it not him. Does that mean he was in overall command or did he just do really great commanding his division. Who knows?

The Blackwater was always going to be pretty hard to lose. Stannis massively outnumbered and crushed against the Walls-not great odds. By all accounts the Battle of the Bells was closely fought and Griff is a decent commander. Well he is now anyway. See id question his actions against the Tullys in the first place but then again i suppose it did work to a degree

But point taken although im not quiet sure Tyrion could compare to Robb although if he wasnt severely disadvantaged ,for Westerosi culture, perhaps he would

[The Fallen]

We don't have any stories of Ned's brilliance on the battlefield, but we don't have them for Robert, Jon A or Hoster Tully either. We're told of Robert's bravery on the battlefield, but that isn't the same as being a great commander. Randyl Tarley beat Robert. Does that make him great? Everyone says he's a top commander based off one meaningless battle win. By those standards, Edmure would also be brilliant, as he defeated the 'great' Tywin. But yet Eddard, who helped Robert defeat the 300 year Targaryen dynasty and also put down the Greyjoy Rebellion, gets his credentials questioned?

Also, everyone states Tywin was feared by everyone, but that's just not true. Do you think Eddard really feared Tywin? Of course not. Neither did Stannis, the Tyrells or Martells. The only people who feared Tywin were his bannermen and smaller houses. Heck, the Riverlords themselves didn't fear Tywin.

Edited for grammar.

[Chaircat Meow]

We don't have any stories of Ned's brilliance on the battlefield, but we don't have them for Robert, Jon A or Hoster Tully either. We're told of Robert's bravery on the battlefield, but that isn't the same as being a great commander. Randyl Tarley beat Robert. Does that make him great? Everyone says he's a top commander based off one meaningless battle win. By those standards, Edmure would also be brilliant, as he defeated the 'great' Tywin. But yet Eddard, who helped Robert defeat the 300 year Targaryen dynasty and also put down the Greyjoy Rebellion, gets his credentials questioned?

Also, everyone states Tywin was feared by everyone, but that's just not true. Do you think Eddard really feared Tywin? Of course not. Neither did Stannis, the Tyrells or Martells. The only people who feared Tywin were his bannermen and smaller houses. Heck, the Riverlords themselves didn't fear Tywin.

Edited for grammar.

No, its just that I never heard people argue Hoster, Jon Arryn, or indeed Robert were head and shoulders above Tywin as commanders.

[E-Ro]

Um, Robert is without a doubt one of the greats of topic I know but still.

[Chaircat Meow]

Um, Robert is without a doubt one of the greats of topic I know but still.

Well I agree as a matter of fact. I think that he was both a great general and a good king. But just you wait, soon enough someone will come along and say, Ned was basically Robert's brain and he didn't really command during his battles but charged in blind like a mad thing, and so Ned was really the military master mind etc and there won't be many objections.

[Rheagar Prime]

well the RW would not have happened since he would aid stannis it wouldn't have been as dramatic.

[The Fallen]

No, its just that I never heard people argue Hoster, Jon Arryn, or indeed Robert were head and shoulders above Tywin as commanders.

Well, being that Tywin sat out the war in which they were all participants it would be hard to judge. By the time the WotFK comes around Robert and Arryn are dead and Hoster is on his death bed. And of course, The Ned is also dead.

Edited: Changed 'battle' to 'war'.

[Chaircat Meow]

Well, being that Tywin sat out the war in which they were all participants it would be hard to judge. By the time the WotFK comes around Robert and Arryn are dead and Hoster is on his death bed. And of course, The Ned is also dead.

Edited: Changed 'battle' to 'war'.

So, what's you're point. I was saying Ned should be in the same boat as Hoster, Jon and so on. We don't know what his military abilities were.

[Ragnorak]

I think the biggest difference with Ned would be Dorne and the Vale. Ned's fight with Robert over the death of Elia and her children is no secret. If Ned is going to war to behead Tywin Lannister he'd have Dorne. Ned's reputation in Dorne is not Robert's. Ned also fostered in the Vale. If Lysa didn't return his ravens he'd just send them to the Lords of the Vale directly. Ned would also not send Theon to negotiate with Balon. He wouldn't offer Balon a crown but would offer to send Theon back. If you factor in Ned claiming Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella bastards, Ned saying Jon Arryn was murdered, and the hypothetical that Cat was beheaded and Lysa's inaction to Jon and Cat's murders I think we would have a one book series.

[Chaircat Meow]

I think the biggest difference with Ned would be Dorne and the Vale. Ned's fight with Robert over the death of Elia and her children is no secret. If Ned is going to war to behead Tywin Lannister he'd have Dorne. Ned's reputation in Dorne is not Robert's. Ned also fostered in the Vale. If Lysa didn't return his ravens he'd just send them to the Lords of the Vale directly. Ned would also not send Theon to negotiate with Balon. He wouldn't offer Balon a crown but would offer to send Theon back. If you factor in Ned claiming Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella bastards, Ned saying Jon Arryn was murdered, and the hypothetical that Cat was beheaded and Lysa's inaction to Jon and Cat's murders I think we would have a one book series.

Good point that Ned would have more influence in the Vale. He had been fostered there and had also fought alongside many lords of the Vale during the rebellion.

Have we ever heard anything about Ned's reputation in Dorne though?

Also, Balon would have attacked sans Theon. Theon is the one responsible for sacking WF but that's it.