How would the Northmen do if Ned was commanding Robb's forces?

[Chaircat Meow]

Thats pure BS. Its not like the frey girl was fugly. I'm sure if Robb was promised to a Lannister and then he got injured in the Twins and slept with a Frey, he would have married that Frey girl even if it was Fat Walda. Ned would have done the same thing Catelyn did, and that is promise his son to secure passage. Now if Walder Frey would have chosen the girl instead of Robb, then Ned would disagree.

I agree with this. The Frey alliance was the right thing to do in the circumstances Robb found himself in.

[Chaircat Meow]

Not really, but is obviously better than Robert's, and no one blames Ned for what happened with Rhaenys and Aegon.

Balon would NEVER do it if Theon was a hostage. Not in one million years. Never.

People say that because he was already organizing an army when Theon arrived, but he had full knowledge Theon was heading there weeks before he arrived, and even so he wasn't necessarily preparing a move against the North. If he attacks, then Theon is executed and he's seen as a kinslayer by his own men and wouldn't be supported. He also refused to execute Euron when he had a lot more motive than he had with Theon.

Not to mention he wouldn't pull that if Ned was alive, because Balon is a coward.

No, we know that Ned was at least an equal, if not better, because Robert is described as too impulsive and reckless, Catelyn compares Renly to Robert before the (non) battle with Stannis because of this, and says Ned would control Robert's impulses with caution.

Arryn was the one leading in Gulltown, since they were his bannermen, although Robert killed the Gulltown lord himself.

Robert becoming formal head of it had nothing to do with him being a better leader, it was about him having a better claim to the Iron Throne, and more charisma.

Yes, two houses that were fighting...all the other houses of the West (and we know that because the houses that refused support would have had the same fate). And as for his military skill as Hand, his failure at Duskendale is proof that he was far from the greatest military mind- he relied too much on intimidation and superior strength.

Dude, Darkyln had the king as a hostage. Give Tywin a break. Jeez. Those were hardly normal circumstances and it wasn't a normal siege.

As for the testimony of Cat I think you have to be careful and consider how she gets this information. She has never been with Ned on a campaign yet she obviously has great respect for him as a commander. And to be honest, surrounding 5,000 men with 80,000, which is what she thinks Renly should have done is a bit weird. Overkill is the word. I don't want to say she doesn't know anything about military affairs but she isn't a 100% reliable source.

As for Robert and Gulltown I don't think we are told Jon was there, although I could be wrong about this.

I also had the impression the decision to stress Robert's claim was decided after the rebellion.

[Gurkhal]

If Ned's fifteen year old green as grass son can kick the lannisters asses from the river lands to the west while outnumbered I'm pretty sure Ned has a fair chance. And regarding Ned's skill I am basing this on Robb and Jons skill, later I will take the time to go through Smm and try to find a quote from grrm.

By that standard then Tywin should be a softie and Joffrey a master swordsman, neither of them are true. You are happy to look through the SMM but I don't think you'll find many flattering comments about Eddard except that he his ethos, which he he does have alot of and that's his strength.

[Pod The Impaler]

Thats pure BS. Its not like the frey girl was fugly. I'm sure if Robb was promised to a Lannister and then he got injured in the Twins and slept with a Frey, he would have married that Frey girl even if it was Fat Walda. Ned would have done the same thing Catelyn did, and that is promise his son to secure passage. Now if Walder Frey would have chosen the girl instead of Robb, then Ned would disagree.

Yeah, but Eddard knows Walder Frey to be dishonourable and two-faced from the days of the rebellion against Aerys.

And Robb agreed because he was pressed for time, and was basically facing the Lannisters by himself.

However, under there circumstances, I think the Edmure / Roslin match becomes more likely rather than less, might make more sense from a Tully standpoint.

[Northern light]

Or maybe he was the best military leader. He gets praised for his forced marches, and his victories at Gulltown and Summerhall when Ned was not there.

He's the king (or was) what do you expect? Since most of the information we get is from POV:s we need to remember that people can misjudge others abilities.

Fine, he wasn't just a random dude but I didn't say that. He won no battles after the Trident because, as far as we know, there were none.

No major battles but surely skirmishes since the royal army after the battle of trident was completely annihilated, the most logical choice would be to retreat towards King's Landing, the place where Ned lead the forces after BoT. Also, after KL he marched towards SE to lift the siege there, surely there where skirmishes along that route.

So in principle I do believe that people in Westeros (not on the board) tend to overestimate Robert skill as a commander and underestimate Ned, just because Robert was the figurehead of the Rebellion and later became king.

Also, some ppl on the board also likes to reference the SSM where George claims that Brandon were the better sword and Ned was the better commander. However, since we don't know anything about Brandon's abilities as a commander it doesn't say so much but adds to Ned's case as a very competent commander.

[Winterfell is Burning]

By that standard then Tywin should be a softie and Joffrey a master swordsman, neither of them are true.

Yeah, that's the same thing we're talking about here, right... Who else but Ned trained and taught Robb and Jon everything they know?

[Castel]

Why is it that every time that there's a Stark thread the pissing contest between them and Tywin must follow? Ah well...

Yes, two houses that were fighting...all the other houses of the West (and we know that because the houses that refused support would have had the same fate). And as for his military skill as Hand, his failure at Duskendale is proof that he was far from the greatest military mind- he relied too much on intimidation and superior strength.

You fail to take into consideration relative strength (for example, the Hightowers vs. the Reach would be a different battle than the keepers of Deepwood Motte vs. the North), army training or composition, some armies are better trained than others, skill of the commanders, Tytos was a weak commander and the Red Lion was a good one -and before you fall back on a numerical argument, see: Robb and his smaller army or Stannis.

As for Duskendale, everyone brings this up constantly. Yet no one will ever explain just what the fuck Tywin was supposed to do when he was told that Aerys would be killed the moment he tried anything.

[E-Ro]

By that standard then Tywin should be a softie and Joffrey a master swordsman, neither of them are true. You are happy to look through the SMM but I don't think you'll find many flattering comments about Eddard except that he his ethos, which he he does have alot of and that's his strength.

How do you know joff is not a good swordsman? And was Jaime the one teaching him? No he wasn't unlike Ned who actually taught his children. And tywin inherited his fathers thing for hoes, sorry but your argument is piss poor.

[pitakon]

Yeah, but Eddard knows Walder Frey to be dishonourable and two-faced from the days of the rebellion against Aerys.

And Robb agreed because he was pressed for time, and was basically facing the Lannisters by himself.

However, under there circumstances, I think the Edmure / Roslin match becomes more likely rather than less, might make more sense from a Tully standpoint.

Again BS. Much of the Frey vitriol hate came after the Red Wedding. If it was Ned, he wouldn't have the right to do the Edmure/Roslin match. And Walder won't allow a match lower than a Warden heir wedding. So again its gonna be back to Robb. And if Robb, was in the army with Ned, then he would have married Robb right then and there just as he married Catelyn before he went to war. But because it was Catelyn and doted on Robb, Robb was trying to skate around his obligation.

I don't understand what I just wrote, but in conclusion, Robb's death is his own fault. Roslyn is much more beautiful than Robb's beloved Jeyne, although he will have a creep for a father-in-law. But every other father-in-law is a creep anyway.

[The Frision Wolf]

How can Ned be head of an army with no head ?

[The Fallen]

Why wouldn't Lord Walder Frey allow his daughter to wed someone lower than a Lord Protector or his heir? As far as I know, none of his many daughters are married to a highborn son.

How can Ned be head of an army with no head ?

Having a head is overrated. It just gets in the way.

[pitakon]

Why wouldn't Lord Walder Frey allow his daughter to wed someone lower than a Lord Protector or his heir? As far as I know, none of his many daughters are married to a highborn son.

Ambition. During Robert's Rebellion he didn't really join the war. So which implies that the guy is just overly cautious. Now if he decide to let the northerners pass, he knows that he chose sides and he has joined the war. If you couldn't get the guy to war during Robert's Rebellion, you probably couldn't get the guy to war this time around unless you promise to join houses.