Why Victarion Greyjoy is an atrocious Human Being

[Winter's Knight]

the other option was loosing his face

Oh how tragic.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

Oh how tragic.

Yeah, seriously.

I don't get all the defense of "Oh it's his culture." Pish posh. Just because a culture condones things such as rape and murder, does not make it a good thing.

[Winter's Knight]

Yeah, seriously.

I don't get all the defense of "Oh it's his culture." Pish posh. Just because a culture condones things such as rape and murder, does not make it a good thing.

Then they throw hissy fits when you point out that stuff like Cat's dislike of Jon or Tywin's treatment of Tyrion are part of the culture as well.

[Chelly]

Victarian Greyjoy is an atrocious human being. This is hardly news. We can't defend the things he has done, only try to explain why he doesn't see anything wrong with it. It doesn't make it right, but he is hardly the worst person in the series. At least not next to Ramsay, Gregor, Craster, Qyburn, The Tickler,etc...

[VivaVictarion2]

I'm usually not a grammer Nazi, but you accidently spelled "awesome" as "atrocious."

[LordBloodraven]

Not that it's saying much, but he's the "least bad" of his brothers.

He's the least bad because he's the most stupid. Euron, Balon, Aeron: they can think of a bad and fucked up plan and implements it. Vicky can't do that, he's just killing and raping random people. He's a follower.

Vicky's chapters in ADWD were surreal. All those killings, rapes of the dusky women, and incredibly well-thought offerings to the Drowned God and Red Rahloo. The poor seven slaves that he burned...This guy is nuts and doesn't realize it.

[jarl the climber]

Oh how tragic.

Actually this is something where I actually felt sorry for Vic. Killing his wife for her infedelity was actually very traumatic for him but it was something he was expected to do. Its just not about saving face, killing her is the only way he can maintain the status and standing he has worked his whole life to establish. Euron forced him into this posistion deliberately out of cruelty. Don't think that Vic does not feel guilty about it, he agrees to take the Dusky Woman only after Euron says he will kill her if he does not. So Vic is kind of a victim of his culture but his heart actually seems to be in the right place once in a while.

[Winter's Knight]

Actually this is something where I actually felt sorry for Vic. Killing his wife for her infedelity was actually very traumatic for him but it was something he was expected to do. Its just not about saving face, killing her is the only way he can maintain the status and standing he has worked his whole life to establish. Euron forced him into this posistion deliberately out of cruelty. Don't think that Vic does not feel guilty about it, he agrees to take the Dusky Woman only after Euron says he will kill her if he does not. So Vic is kind of a victim of his culture but his heart actually seems to be in the right place once in a while.

He wasn't expected to do it-it isn't spoken about, Asha doesn't know about it. There is no evidence that "beating your wife to death because she may have been raped by your brother" is a part of Iron Born culture.

[Kittykatknits]

Yeah, seriously.

I don't get all the defense of "Oh it's his culture." Pish posh. Just because a culture condones things such as rape and murder, does not make it a good thing.

Then they throw hissy fits when you point out that stuff like Cat's dislike of Jon or Tywin's treatment of Tyrion are part of the culture as well.

I don't get the defense of culture either. Doesn't make it a good thing. Personally, I find parts of this thread rather unsettling. This man burns people alive, threatens to offer up the Maeaster to his men, has a sex slave, and beat his wife to death. The defense basically comes down to the fact that other people do it to, so it's ok.

[jarl the climber]

He wasn't expected to do it-it isn't spoken about, Asha doesn't know about it. There is no evidence that "beating your wife to death because she may have been raped by your brother" is a part of Iron Born culture.

I would have to read this part of the book again but Euron claims he had her willingly and boasted of it to Victorian. I'm not sure who else Euron told but Balon sent him into exile and stopped Vic from trying to kill him since that would be kinslaying, in other words if Euron had not been related to him he could have killed him for this as well. I know that the Old Testament called for adulterous women to be stoned to death and I don't know the punishment in medieval times but I'm sure he would not be faulted for killing her in the heat of the moment. Ecspecially with him being a captian and a war leader, this is something he would be expected to do, certianly Aeron, his religous advisor would give him the go ahead.

Whether she was raped by Euron is an open question. Euron implied that she came to him willingly and that it was because Vic was inadequate. Asha did not know the exact details but she seemed to be able to figure out the gist of it easy enough and she did not seem shocked by what he did. Her reaction was more like, you gotta do what you gotta do, now put that behind you and lets stop Euron from getting the Seastone chair.

[Kittykatknits]

Whether she was raped by Euron is an open question. Euron implied that she came to him willingly and that it was because Vic was inadequate. Asha did not know the exact details but she seemed to be able to figure out the gist of it easy enough and she did not seem shocked by what he did. Her reaction was more like, you gotta do what you gotta do, now put that behind you and lets stop Euron from getting the Seastone chair.

You are right, it is an open question but Euron and Asha had ulterior motives. Asha wants the Seastone chair, whether Vic's wife was raped or not won't matter. And Euron, well....

[Winter's Knight]

I would have to read this part of the book again but Euron claims he had her willingly and boasted of it to Victorian. I'm not sure who else Euron told but Balon sent him into exile and stopped Vic from trying to kill him since that would be kinslaying, in other words if Euron had not been related to him he could have killed him for this as well. I know that the Old Testament called for adulterous women to be stoned to death and I don't know the punishment in medieval times but I'm sure he would not be faulted for killing her in the heat of the moment. Ecspecially with him being a captian and a war leader, this is something he would be expected to do, certianly Aeron, his religous advisor would give him the go ahead.

Whether she was raped by Euron is an open question. Euron implied that she came to him willingly and that it was because Vic was inadequate. Asha did not know the exact details but she seemed to be able to figure out the gist of it easy enough and she did not seem shocked by what he did. Her reaction was more like, you gotta do what you gotta do, now put that behind you and lets stop Euron from getting the Seastone chair.

Oh yes, believe your semi-insane brother instead of listening to the pleas of a woman you obviously seem to care for.

[E-Ro]

I agree, he is a horrible person, he has done some messed up stuff. Rape is never ok, nor sacrificing someone.

[Tagganaro]

You guys are forgetting about some of his greatest hits:

1. Promising to sail the Dothraki sea

2. Getting laughed at and made a fool of by monkeys on his sails

3. Always being the butt of jokes made by Euron and Aeron when younger

4. Thinking he's sailing to Dany on "wings of song"

5. Trying to free slaves to be like Dany

6. 2 gods are better than 1

7. Somehow thinking that it's a brilliant plan to try and steal Dany- I'm sure Euron will never expect that.

Anyway, Vic is a terrible person but an awesome POV imo. He's not nearly as bad as some of the other Ironborn. As Baelor Blacktyde said and Vic thinks about a lot, "Balon was mad, Aeron is madder, and Euron is maddest." I don't think Vic is as bad as either one of those guys, but he's still bad.

The Iron Island culture is just despicable in the first place. The Drowned God makes Rhollor look like a saint. Vic is definitely a product of that ridiculous culture. He's too stupid to be sadistic and cruel like Euron, which kind of makes me feel a little bad for him since he is constantly comparing himself to him. I wouldn't be surprised at all if his ex-wife wasn't even raped by Euron but went to him willingly - That seems to be the way it is for Vic.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I can't believe that no one remembered that his wife was pregnant when he strangled her. For shame, people.

Also, he's dumb as a brick. Maybe Dany will like him after all. :dunce:

[Ser Hippie]

"He's not as crazy as Aeron/Euron/Balon" is a textbook case of damning with faint praise.

Personally, I don't find him very interesting to read because I have a neon sign flashing "EURON IS PLAYING YOU LIKE A FIDDLE" every time I get to one of his chapters.

[Castel]

I don't get the defense of culture either. Doesn't make it a good thing. Personally, I find parts of this thread rather unsettling. This man burns people alive, threatens to offer up the Maeaster to his men, has a sex slave, and beat his wife to death. The defense basically comes down to the fact that other people do it to, so it's ok.

Well, if other people do it and passed it on it means that he in particularly isn't some random individual evil. You can call the society evil as a whole, but the man in it becomes less important since he was shaped from an early age. That said, I'm not sure that Ironborn culture goes anywhere as far as Vicky does.

[Garlan Marius]

Also, he's dumb as a brick. Maybe Dany will like him after all. :dunce:

Only if he dyes his beard blue.

[Fredwin]

What is the point of the thread, exactly? To list all of Victarion's morally reprehensible acts? For what purpose?

[jarl the climber]

I can't believe that no one remembered that his wife was pregnant when he strangled her. For shame, people.

Also, he's dumb as a brick. Maybe Dany will like him after all. :dunce:

Yeah but if she had taken moon tea it would have been OK. Its a good point, Vic thought it was Eurons child and if he had been at Sea for awhile it probaly was and that is how he found out probaly. Vic is a dumby but even he is going to wonder how his wife got 6 months pregnant when he has been at Sea for the last 9 months. The question is why she let herself get pregnant and risk Vic finding out?