ServantOnIce Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 There are the stories of the rapers and reavers which are common in warfare and in times of social upheavel (see the problems in Africa and the Balkans for modern examples) such as the Dothraki, Pirates and Iron Born.But what about abuse by a family member? It seems Euron abused Aeron Damphair and possibly Joff abused Tommen and it seems that Prince Doran Martell likes to watch naked kids play a little too much for most normal standards . . .What are your thoughts on familiar sexual abuse in the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Ice Baby Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not sure any of the examples of familial sexual abuse actually happened, or if they did/do happen, that they constitute sexual abuse.Are we told that Euron sexually abused Aeron? That's not something I picked up on to be honest. Same goes for Joffery/Tommen - I imagined some bullying, but didn't read anything from which I inferred sexual abuse.As for Doran Martell, I think you've taken that out of context. Again, there's nothing in the description of his time in the water gardens which strikes me as particularly odd or other than innocent.The example I can think off from the top of my head is Viserys/Daenerys - I got the distinct impression in GoT that there had been sexual abuse there. I put that down mainly to the Targaryen tradition of marrying and breeding in the family, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The example I can think off from the top of my head is Viserys/Daenerys - I got the distinct impression in GoT that there had been sexual abuse there. I put that down mainly to the Targaryen tradition of marrying and breeding in the family, though.Doesn't he pinch her nipples in the first Dany chapter in AGoT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Doesn't he pinch her nipples in the first Dany chapter in AGoT?Yes, he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Joff abused Tommen and it seems that Prince Doran Martell likes to watch naked kids play a little too much for most normal standards . . .Whaaaa? Joff bullied his siblings but no mention of sexual abuse. As for Doran, kids weren't naked and he wasn't gawking at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Viserys was going to rape her on her wedding night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think there was an instance of Aerion telling Aemon that he would use him like a woman. I'm not sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studlymuffin Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I don't think Joffery ever abused his siblings.And the kids actually were naked but I don't think Doran was a pervert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 As for Doran Martell, I think you've taken that out of context. Again, there's nothing in the description of his time in the water gardens which strikes me as particularly odd or other than innocent.Doran's not a pederast. I think this misses the entire point of the Water Gardens and what he's actually seeing here. The Water Gardens are indeed where children play naked, but he's not leering at their bodies. The point is that, naked, the children are indistinguishable along class lines: you can't tell who is noble and who is not-- all he sees are people.ETA: Ice, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Are we told that Euron sexually abused Aeron? Whatever Euron did is, Aeron completely blanked it out due to massive trauma and only remembers it from audioal cues. Not to mention he feels shamed, unmanned and hates Euron for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I don't think Joffery ever abused his siblings.Maybe not sexually but he definetly beat Tommen, Tommen said as much to jaime but cercei told him to shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think there was an instance of Aerion telling Aemon that he would use him like a woman. I'm not sure though.Yes, this I remember:D&E I“You won’t hurt Daeron, though,” the boy said. “He told you he’d fall down. And Aerion . . . I remember, when I was little, he used to come into my bedchamber at night and put his knife between my legs. He had too many brothers, he’d say, maybe one night he’d make me his sister, then he could marry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think there was an instance of Aerion telling Aemon that he would use him like a woman. I'm not sure though.If we're thinking of the same line, I think he made some weird threat about castrating Egg so he'd have a sister to marry. Craster seems like a pretty open-and-shut case of sexual abuse, and Shae too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saryan Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It wouldn't surprise me if Gregor hadn't engaged in this as well...not necessarily with Sandor, but with the sister. No evidence for this at all, but it just wouldn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Doran watching children frames him as an overly sentimental, innocent, peaceful man rather than a pervert. Its a device that lulls everyone into thinking he will never start a brutal war IMO.The abuse that shocked me is when fake Arya said she'll do anything with Ramsays dogs! What the hell has Ramsay done to her, and what did he make Reek do with them on the wedding night? We only know part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezelle Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 At tywin's funeral when tommen talks to Jaime, tommen talks about going away inside when joff........The sentence is never finished. It led me to think if tommen was molested by joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 There are the stories of the rapers and reavers which are common in warfare and in times of social upheavel (see the problems in Africa and the Balkans for modern examples) such as the Dothraki, Pirates and Iron Born.But what about abuse by a family member? It seems Euron abused Aeron Damphair and possibly Joff abused Tommen and it seems that Prince Doran Martell likes to watch naked kids play a little too much for most normal standards . . .What are your thoughts on familiar sexual abuse in the books?I think you're jumping to conclusions. For example it's certain and obvious that Joffrey abused Tommen, bully as he was, but there's absolutely no indication that the abuse was of sexual nature. That's just your assumption. Just like there's no indication whatsoever that Doran viewed children as sexual objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlan Marius Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Doran's not a pederast. I think this misses the entire point of the Water Gardens and what he's actually seeing here. The Water Gardens are indeed where children play naked, but he's not leering at their bodies. The point is that, naked, the children are indistinguishable along class lines: you can't tell who is noble and who is not-- all he sees are people.I couldn't have said it better.Whenever Aeron thinks of Euron, he associates the sound of a "creaky door" and fear. He hates him. I think it is a reasonable assumption that Euron did something to Aeron and Urrigon. Sexual abuse is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 There are the stories of the rapers and reavers which are common in warfare and in times of social upheavel (see the problems in Africa and the Balkans for modern examples) such as the Dothraki, Pirates and Iron Born.But what about abuse by a family member? It seems Euron abused Aeron Damphair and possibly Joff abused Tommen and it seems that Prince Doran Martell likes to watch naked kids play a little too much for most normal standards . . .What are your thoughts on familiar sexual abuse in the books?I'm sorry, but this is pathetic. Euron might have bullied Aeron, but even for that I can't remember any proof. Joffrey and Tommen. Joffrey wasn't interested in the whores Tyrion sent him, why would he be any interested in abusing his little brother sexually. There is no proof of that and even the idea is ridiculous. Only because Tommen was a shy little boy doesn't mean he was sexually or any other way abused by anybody.And Doran Martell is the top of the whole post. It is one of the most innocent and sweet scenes in the whole series when Doran Martell sits in the garden and watches children bath. That scenes tells of equality, tranquility, innocence, peace. It's pathetic and ridiculous to assume that Doran Martell is an old pedo. Honestly with this you can even suggest that Tywin sexually abused his father. Because one is a strong person and the other is weak and shy. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 At tywin's funeral when tommen talks to Jaime, tommen talks about going away inside when joff........The sentence is never finished. It led me to think if tommen was molested by joffrey.Or it could be because Tommen was fond of cats, while Joffrey experimented with vivisection, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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