The Stark line, diverting south

[Daeron Targaryen Snow]

I do not think Rickard new about the Prince that was promised, Stark's believe in the Old Gods. I think Rickard just wanted to branch out the Stark name, and prehaps get the North more into the government affairs wih the whole Realm.

[oldtown whore]

I think that it was the influence of Maester Walys which persuaded Rickard to promote Southron Ambitions.. This is unusual of the usually isolated Starks and leads one to wonder the real motives of Maester Walys... All Maester appear to have their own agendas.

[Lord Varys]

The question remains:

Does Barbrey Ryswell Dustin have the right of it when she blames Maester Walys for the marriage contract involving Brandon Stark and Catelyn Tully, or was is this just the talk of a jealous woman who never got over the fact that precious Brandon Stark did never truly love her? Was this just her way to blame someone for her fate? She may be right about that the fact that the maesters have their own agenda, just not about the fact that the Citadel had any deeper interest which Stark heir married what noble woman.

If there was something fishy about this whole Stark marriage contracts involving noble houses in the South the culprit would be Lord Rickard Stark, not his maester. He authorized all of this, even if his maester may have been in charge of the negotiations.

Depending on the time line the Lyanna abduction may have had something to do with Rhaegar's alleged plans to form an alliance to depose his father Aerys. The fact that Rickard Stark marched towards his doom with open eyes when Aerys called him to King's Landing is somewhat strange. If he was in cahoots with Rhaegar to a degree, if Lyanna went with Rhaegar with Rickard's approval, he might have expected that Rhaegar would be present at KL and intervene on his and Brandon's behalf.

If Rickard had some kind of elaborate plan to take over Westeros he would most likely have called his banners and would have marched south in show of force, perhaps even calling on Hoster's, Robert's, or Jon's assistance. But he apparently did no such thing.

[AdXRoss]

I wonder, are we given indication at any point, that the Starks have never before cultivated Southern links through marriages? I was of the impression that all of the great houses had intermarried to some degree, like the great Royal Houses of Europe.

[Lord Varys]

In fact, there are closer blood relations between the Starks and the Waynwoods, Corbrays, and Templetons of the Vale as between the Starks and the present members of the northern houses. Robb's closest blood relatives, the legal heirs of Ned's children, live in the Vale, not in the North (Lord Rickard had no siblings, but his father had a sister who was married into the Vale). This alone indicates that the Starks did marry into southron houses, although it does not seem that there was a Lady Stark from the South in the last century or so since there was no sept in Winterfell when Catelyn arrived there.

But it is entirely possible that there was a Targaryen Lady of Winterfell in the first century after the Conquest, or perhaps even in the second. And it is also possible that those noble houses in the South with First Men blood/traditions did intermarry with the Starks for centuries (for example, the Hightowers, the Royces, and especially the Blackwoods).

[AdXRoss]

In fact, there are closer blood relations between the Starks and the Waynwoods, Corbrays, and Templetons of the Vale as between the Starks and the present members of the northern houses. Robb's closest blood relatives, the legal heirs of Ned's children, live in the Vale, not in the North (Lord Rickard had no siblings, but his father had a sister who was married into the Vale). This alone indicates that the Starks did marry into southron houses, although it does not seem that there was a Lady Stark from the South in the last century or so since there was no sept in Winterfell when Catelyn arrived there.

But it is entirely possible that there was a Targaryen Lady of Winterfell in the first century after the Conquest, or perhaps even in the second. And it is also possible that those noble houses in the South with First Men blood/traditions did intermarry with the Starks for centuries (for example, the Hightowers, the Royces, and especially the Blackwoods).

Ah, Lord Varys you are very wise! :)

[The Fallen]

In fact, there are closer blood relations between the Starks and the Waynwoods, Corbrays, and Templetons of the Vale as between the Starks and the present members of the northern houses. Robb's closest blood relatives, the legal heirs of Ned's children, live in the Vale, not in the North (Lord Rickard had no siblings, but his father had a sister who was married into the Vale). This alone indicates that the Starks did marry into southron houses, although it does not seem that there was a Lady Stark from the South in the last century or so since there was no sept in Winterfell when Catelyn arrived there.

But it is entirely possible that there was a Targaryen Lady of Winterfell in the first century after the Conquest, or perhaps even in the second. And it is also possible that those noble houses in the South with First Men blood/traditions did intermarry with the Starks for centuries (for example, the Hightowers, the Royces, and especially the Blackwoods).

The Hightowers? They keep the old gods?

[Lord Varys]

The Hightowers are one of the oldest noble houses of Westeros, they have First Men blood, and there is still a weirwood with a face in Oldtown. They are patrons of the Faith, and the protectors of the Citadel, all right, but they also interested in magic. It has not been said that they still follow and worship the old gods, but that does not mean that some of them don't. It is weird that the weirwoods were not completely eradicated in the city which was the residence of the High Septon for centuries, the very place where the Citadel is apparently plotting to create a world without magic. If House Hightower does not protect the tree, and Archmaesters like Marwyn the Mage, I don't know who does.

The Blackwoods still keep the old gods, and they live in the South as well.

If the Starks did intermarry with Southron houses (before and after the Conquest) my guess is that they would have turned to very old houses with First Men blood. If a Hightower or Royce became ever Lady Stark or Queen in the North, they would have the least problems to (re)join the old gods. And a Blackwood woman would have even less problems.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The southron ambitions was only a figment of a spurned lover's imagination .

By looking at Mace Tyrell and Tywin Lannister their goal was to advance their houses by marrying a daughter to the king's heir or the king himself . It was by blind luck Robert fell in love with Lyanna .Rickard Stark may have had a dreams of seceding and taking the Riverlands and the Vale with him .

[pdxbucky]

The southron ambitions was only a figment of a spurned lover's imagination .

By looking at Mace Tyrell and Tywin Lannister their goal was to advance their houses by marrying a daughter to the king's heir or the king himself . It was by blind luck Robert fell in love with Lyanna .Rickard Stark may have had a dreams of seceding and taking the Riverlands and the Vale with him .

I think you're misremembering. Lyanna was promised to Robert; it was blind luck (whim of the god(s)?) that Rhaegar fell in love with her. I am convinced that Rickard was trying to strengthen the North's influence within the unified Kingdom with his Southron Ambitions. The aspect that has not been mentioned is that the superficial analysis (sorry Free Northman, I like the cut of your jib, but it has some holes) does indeed point towards Rickard wanting to secede, but what character who is mentally unstable and see enemies everywhere might pick up on this analysis? Yup, Aeris. Crazy people are indeed crazy, but they generally still need justification to commit the horrors that Aeris committed against House Stark. Well, Brandon asked for it, true, but Rickard required a different internal rationale. Trying to become a new King of the North would do it.

[redrose]

The Hightowers are one of the oldest noble houses of Westeros, they have First Men blood, and there is still a weirwood with a face in Oldtown. They are patrons of the Faith, and the protectors of the Citadel, all right, but they also interested in magic. It has not been said that they still follow and worship the old gods, but that does not mean that some of them don't. It is weird that the weirwoods were not completely eradicated in the city which was the residence of the High Septon for centuries, the very place where the Citadel is apparently plotting to create a world without magic. If House Hightower does not protect the tree, and Archmaesters like Marwyn the Mage, I don't know who does.

The Blackwoods still keep the old gods, and they live in the South as well.

If the Starks did intermarry with Southron houses (before and after the Conquest) my guess is that they would have turned to very old houses with First Men blood. If a Hightower or Royce became ever Lady Stark or Queen in the North, they would have the least problems to (re)join the old gods. And a Blackwood woman would have even less problems.

Rickard Starks Gran was a Blackwood. Melantha if memory serves.

Whatever happened to good old Maester walys. Lady Dustin tells us of him whispering in Rickards ear of Southron ambitions, organising marriage pacts etc and yet wasn't it master lewin who delivered all Ned and Cats Kids. He made a pretty sharp exit after Rickard and Brandon got torched. Wonder what happened to him? Wasn't he the son of a maester and hightower from old town?