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Jon Snow (Spoilers)


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Some say Pot-A-to and some say Pot-a-to. Whether GRRM was misleading us in text and then later stating that it was a one time magical event, is in MHO a moot point.

Dany has someting; Visery's didn't have it. On the other hand, I don't think that you will find Dany running around sticking her hand in the first fire she sees. I think it's called common sense.

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[...] ... But Lyanna appearing to Jon and telling him things like Obi Wan Kenobi? No, that's decidedly off tone to me.

i have to agree with Lord Gogorath :agree:

maybe dream of Lyanna telling him that or so ... personally i always saw Bran telling it to Jon

latly im thinking that Arya could be the one (aswell) since she is now Faceless Lady - and they know it all

:fencing:

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I've had similar thoughts. I think that the magical concepts introduced through such characters as Thoros, Dondarion, Stoneheart, Victarion and Moqorro seem to point to some sort of involvement of Melisandre in whatever happens to Jon next. When I first read the series I was a bit put off by the Thoros/Beric/Stoneheart stuff and confused as to how they fit in with the rest of the series ...[...]

this is givin me idea i maybe wrong in all this but here it goes :

(i only read aFfC and aDwD once each so hold on)

as far as i remeber Thoros of Myr isnt around Lady Stoneheart (for some reson) what if he is on the way to the wall - he gives Jon "kiss of life"

now this is fun part - Thoros always runs around with his flaming sword and that part is very highlighted by HBO - we know that AA is suposed to have flaming sword

(i'm thinking ofcourse Thoros will have to die giving the kiss of life to Jon Snow)

this isnt how i see it at all its just idea i got Lord Zman1863 that mantioned Thoros of Myr

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This relates more specifically to your sentence about Mel being adamant that Stannis is AA and the show. It seems to me that Mel is a victim of the way she's asking the flames her question. She never asks "show me Stannis Baratheon." Instead, the only question we hear her ask is "show me Azor Ahai." Then she sees nothing but snow.

In another thread we were wondering what Mel meant/how to interpret her warning to Stannis that he will betray "the men serving you, you will betray your family, you will betray everything you once held dear," but we know what Stannis does in later books and that he doesn't really do any of that. Maybe in a metaphorical sense, but beyond that...

But it she's seeing Jon in the flames and doesn't realize it, everything she says to Stannis makes perfect sense, and does happen to Jon. In fact, a mere 10-15 minutes after this scene is when Jon kills Qhorin Halfhand. Jon will betray his vow to the NW with Ygritte, he then betrayed the Wildlings by going back to the NW, and then he will seen by some to betray the NW itself in Dance when he let's the Wildlings south.

So basically we have Mel telling us everything Jon is going to do, but thinking it's going to happen to Stannis. I think this might be a really backhanded clue that Jon = AA is true.

On top of that, Ygritte is killed as a result of Jon's action. The one woman that he's ever loved, the first woman he had been with sexually, a red haired wildling "kissed by fire". She's killed by an arrow to the heart, Jon may not have shot it but it was his actions that put it there. For what, for what Jon believed was the greater good. He essentially sacrificed her for the greater good just like AA sacrificed his wife to forge Light Bringer.....by plunging it into her heart.

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In another thread we were wondering what Mel meant/how to interpret her warning to Stannis that he will betray "the men serving you, you will betray your family, you will betray everything you once held dear," but we know what Stannis does in later books and that he doesn't really do any of that. Maybe in a metaphorical sense, but beyond that...

Where is this in the books? I don't recall this conversation between Mel / Stannis. Is it from the TV show? I'm pretty sure I would have remembered this.

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Part of me doubts that jons body was ever even hurt. I find it really strange that Mel was supposedly not around when the attack was going down. I also find it hard to believe that she did not take matters into her own hands when the last time she talked to snow he had completely refused her help. Also found it strange that the author made it a point telling the readers that jon could not seem to be able to get his sword out as if there was another force involved.

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To be honest I have been on this thread for ages now and I have seen a few good new ideas but most of them are patchy. Ever since aGoT I have thought Jon would die, not permanently but I got the feeling he would die. Now this at first was nothing to do with AA as I wasn't aware of that, wasn't about Mel as I didn't know she would be at the wall. Simply it was that other than Dany and Tyrion, Jon seemed to be, in my mind's eye the third big character and him being vowed to stay on the wall just did not work for how I saw the story progressing from there. Then by aCoK I was like, not even sure he is Ned's bastard, this supports him not staying on the wall, and he can only leave if he dies (he is honorable so wouldn't leave the NW fully [time with wildlings not counter]). Fast forward to aDwD Jon is getting stabbed after being LC, changing shit up and now we have AA prophecy, dragons are big enough to ride, fAegon (or maybe Aegon) etc, to me this just screams to me as evidence that Jon has died, will be brought back some how (not as unJon zombie, getting well tired of people assuming him being revived would make him undead). After that the rest of my theories about Jon can be found through-out this thread but for the bit I just discussed I am pretty firm in my belief of it. :D Thanks for reading.

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There have been some posts theorizing Jon's death will lead to a melee at the Wall, or that it will trigger the collapse of the wall and/or NW. My pet theory is that indeed this happens, and the Others will be able not only to move on the Wall, but eventually make it down to Winterfell. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the Others vs. Stannis or Roose/Ramsay, whichever survives their battle?

Some keys as to why this is plausible: (1) the snow/dark has not seemed to let up at WF for days and days, giving the Others the ability to march there unhindered, and (2) this would be the event that lets the rest of Westeros and the Southrons realize their dismissiveness towards the Wall and the Others was not a good idea. That would truly be an "oh $hit" moment.

This would also set up an an attempt by Dany to accelerate her return to Westeros.

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Jon Brown's body... err Snow's was definitely hurt, though it would seem that not necessarily mortally (if medical help is timely)..

I'm not sure I buy it. I have a feeling Mel used one of her illusions on both Jon and his attackers during that sequence. The whole sequence seems real to Jon and he ends up warging into Ghost by the end of it. I simply have a hard time buying that Mel who was constantly warning Jon and apparently knew the name of her attackers and possibly even the time and place of the attack just got completely taken unaware and is nowhere to be seen. And like I said I don't see how a graze caused Jon's fingers to stiffen so much that he could not seem to find and pull out his sword especially being one if not the best swordsman in the NW. The author could have easily just written that as he pulls out Longclaw and is about to take a swipe at one of his two attackers when dagger hits him between the shoulder blades.

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There have been some posts theorizing Jon's death will lead to a melee at the Wall, or that it will trigger the collapse of the wall and/or NW. My pet theory is that indeed this happens, and the Others will be able not only to move on the Wall, but eventually make it down to Winterfell. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the Others vs. Stannis or Roose/Ramsay, whichever survives their battle?

Some keys as to why this is plausible: (1) the snow/dark has not seemed to let up at WF for days and days, giving the Others the ability to march there unhindered, and (2) this would be the event that lets the rest of Westeros and the Southrons realize their dismissiveness towards the Wall and the Others was not a good idea. That would truly be an "oh $hit" moment.

This would also set up an an attempt by Dany to accelerate her return to Westeros.

Wow, this actually seems like a very plausible theory :) I can seriously see something along these lines happening.

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I was thinking about how Jon could technically be relieved from the night's watch and it could actually be quite simple. Jon is seriously wounded, but gets rescued by Tormund, Melisandre, or Ghost, and while he recovers at some undisclosed location the wall falls (night's watch is no longer true) and most of the crows are killed. At this point it's no longer about the night's watch defending the realms of men, but the entire realm defending itself led by Jon/Danny against the others as they swarm down the seven kingdoms.

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I believe the R +L = j theory to be true , the one with the blood of kings is close to death. They burn his body believing him dead and

to prevent him from becoming an other. But as we know fire can not harm him. infact it may have restorative properties. He

emerges from the fire altered revealing his true heritage longclaw in hand flaming

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I believe the R +L = j theory to be true , the one with the blood of kings is close to death. They burn his body believing him dead and

to prevent him from becoming an other. But as we know fire can not harm him. infact it may have restorative properties. He

emerges from the fire altered revealing his true heritage longclaw in hand flaming

Fire can hurt him. Remember when he killed Otho the WW with Mormont's lamp. He burned his hand.

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I think the rising from the ashes of fire theory unlikely. It just doesn't seem to be GRRM's style. Unless the last two books are meant to make a sudden and dramatic shift into the realm of magic and the supernatural, so far magic has been subtle, which is something I've loved about the series.

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being imune from fire isnt a consistent ability in the case of daenerys at least she has gotten blisters from fire on her hands at one point.

when she stepped onto the burning pyer with the dragon eggs she seemed to have been sure it was her destiny to do so ,perhaps she was in some kind

of trance allowing her to commune with some ancient targaryen magic. If john is dying many during near death experiences have felt as if they

have reached a higher level of consciousness its in this state that jon makes the same transition as daenerys did, for me this would make perfect sense for the progression of jons story. magic and the supernatural element have played a huge part in this trilogy

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being imune from fire isnt a consistent ability in the case of daenerys at least she has gotten blisters from fire on her hands at one point.

when she stepped onto the burning pyer with the dragon eggs she seemed to have been sure it was her destiny to do so ,perhaps she was in some kind

of trance allowing her to commune with some ancient targaryen magic. If john is dying many during near death experiences have felt as if they

have reached a higher level of consciousness its in this state that jon makes the same transition as daenerys did, for me this would make perfect sense for the progression of jons story. magic and the supernatural element have played a huge part in this trilogy

I agree this is a possibility but you don't make clear much evidence other than a couple of occasions and you make some assumptions that many disagree with. Firstly, I agree that fire will have something to do with Jon, and this is something that to me seems likely but I rarely factor it into my predictions as there is much greater evidence to support him being revived by a mixture of Old Gods, Red God (R'hallor) magic (Ice and Fire). Some minor corrections as well; Jon, not John, GRRM has often stated that he at least for the most part intended for magic to supplement an otherwise natural world, so it plays a role in the story are but it does not play a "huge" role, the story is more about the humanity and relationships of the characters (His words paraphrased). Lastly at current count the SERIES or Song as he has deemed the story arc, has 5 books and 1 hopefully in the later stages of righting with 1 or 2 more to come after so it is not a Trilogy which means 3 books in that sense. Sorry to be dick-ish :P, just making sweeping assumptions and large mistakes doesn't really garner much respect on forums like this :D. Hopefully you have found this helpful instead of rude. Thanks for reading.

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