Valonqar and Cersei's Prophecy

[Balerion Black Dread]

So I was thinking about Cersei's prophecy and I remembered that Maggy said something about her children. Is really Tommen and Myrcella gonna die while they are king and queen? And If Tommen dies what happens? Will Myrcella become queen? Stannis?

And something else...I've made a list for all the valonqars that I remember(though some of them are very unlikely):

1.Tyrion Lannister

2.Jaime Lannister

3.Sandor Clegane

4.Bran Stark

5.Rickon Stark

6.Aegon Targaryen

7.Euron Greyjoy

8.Theon Greyjoy

9.Victarion Greyjoy

10.Aeron Greyjoy

11.Loras Tyrell

12.Garlas Tyrell

13.Edric Storm

14.Oberyn Martell

15.Edmure Tully

16.Brynden Tully

etc.

*Didn't include Tommen cause he will die first.

Questions:

1.Who would you like to be valonqar?

2.Why?

3.Could valonqar be female(little sister)?

[Naathi Prince]

Valonqar is one of HER brothers. Its Jaime.

[Arya Targaryen]

It says "the valonqar", not "your valonqar". I would add Jon Snow and Arya as well (I read somewhere that FM members are called valonqar sometimes? Can't remember where, though)

And yes, actually I think it could be a girl as well, though I'm not sure.

[FittleLinger]

It says "the valonqar", not "your valonqar". I would add Jon Snow and Arya as well (I read somewhere that FM members are called valonqar sometimes? Can't remember where, though)

And yes, actually I think it could be a girl as well, though I'm not sure.

It wouldn't be much of a prophecy then, would it. 1/3 to 1/2 of Westeros can be the valonqar? And if you include females too...

Her prophecy has been kind of specific till now, so I don't think that fits.

As to the FM referred to as valonqar - I don't recall this, can you provide evidence. It would be a huge twist in theorizing about the valonqar.

[moe.]

you forgot stannis on your list

[Pellaeon]

Who would you like to be valonqar?

Jaime

Why?

Her behavior with him, the fact that she pushed him away will cause her end

Could valonqar be female(little sister)?

Maybe, the valyrian language knows only a neutral word for dragon, but for sibilling, could be , but I don't believe it

[Swiftraven]

I'm pretty sure that even though they're twins, Cersei was born first, then Jaime. So technically Jaime is her little brother and thus the Valonqar. At least that's what I think. I do seem to remember that part of the prophecy was that the Valonqar would strangle her and then it might even tie in with Tyrion's little song "Hands of gold are always cold..."

About the "younger, more beautiful woman that will cast her down". Cersei obviously thought/thinks that it's Margaery but it might easily be referring to Daenerys or even Sansa, I think. And then there's also Nymeria Sand, who is on her way to KL.

[The Sunset King]

A lot of these valonqars would be interesting candidates to fulfill this prophecy. It would appear that Tommen and Myrcella will have to die fairly soon since the prediction seemingly specifies the valonqar killing Cersei after her children have died.

Jaime is a reasonably probable candidate, perhaps one of the most likely. Sandor has a decent chance. Stannis, though maybe not as probable, is in the realm of possibility and would make a very interesting Cersei ender. The Tullys seem unlikely to be involved in this prophecy. Euron or Victarion would be totally unexpected by Cersei.

It would appear quite plausible that the valonqar could be female, although most of the possible female candidates would not have very many opportunities to eliminate Cersei. If Arya were sent to Westeros she possibly could have a chance at strangling Cersei.

The younger queen has a variety of possibilities. If one avoids applying the idea that only a Targaryen could be considered more beautiful than Cersei (no reason to assume this is true all because Cersei seems to think along these lines), the list could include Arianne, Sansa, Daenerys, Brienne (if the "beauty" part is misunderstood by Cersei), or even Melisandre. Margaery is the person Cersei suspects most, making her less likely to be the true one. Cersei believes that she has already pinpointing the valonqar and now the younger queen.

If Tommen dies while on the throne, technically the Lannisters would want Myrcella to become the queen. However, the Lannister grip on the throne would likely be crumbling very quickly at such a point, making it hard for them to control events. They may not be able to stop Margaery, as the present queen, from gaining great power if Tommen dies; Myrcella might be blocked by the Tryells. That is, if Margaery survives her trial. At some point Aegon, Stannis, or someone else may seize the Iron Throne and setup a new dynasty.

[FittleLinger]

I'm pretty sure that even though they're twins, Cersei was born first, then Jaime. So technically Jaime is her little brother and thus the Valonqar. At least that's what I think. I do seem to remember that part of the prophecy was that the Valonqar would strangle her and then it might even tie in with Tyrion's little song "Hand of gold are always cold..."

About the "younger, more beautiful woman that will cast her down". Cersei obviously thought/thinks that it's Margaery but it might easily be referring to Daenerys or even Sansa, I think.

I had the exact same theory - Jaime valonqar and the connection to the hands of gold are always cold! And yes, Cersei was born a few seconds before Jaime.

[Arya Targaryen]

As to the FM referred to as valonqar - I don't recall this, can you provide evidence. It would be a huge twist in theorizing about the valonqar.

Sorry, I searched through all 5 books, but there is definitely no quote on this. I'm sure I've read it somewhere, though, but maybe it was just suggested on a forum like this, without proof.

[Naathi Prince]

there's no point in a prophecy saying any younger sibling in the world might kill you, it has to be Tyrion or Jaime.

[drigoly]

Didn't Jaime come into the world before Cersei, that would erase him from the valonquar list, personaly i think that it's gonna be Sandor.

[The Bastard of Summer]

Questions:

1.Who would you like to be valonqar? Jaime

2.Why? He was ever so faithful to her. Loving no other woman, experiencing loving with no other woman. Committed treason for the love of her, with her. Was willing to be a child killer to save her (and himself yes), then it turns out she's been fucking Lancel (even though she was keeping it in the family still, Sounds like some Targ shit to me), the Kettleblacks, and moonboy for all we know. Lets not forget she fingerbanged Taena Merryweather! That hurt lil Jaime. She betrayed his trust. She rejected him because he was missing a hand, when he needed her most. She is just a mean, cold, sad, vindictive, crazy, paranoid, heartbreaking, family fucking, irrational, penis envying, two timing, wine guzzling, politically inept, scheming, heifer.

3.Could valonqar be female(little sister)? No, I don't believe it refers to any female. I think the translations of the one prophecy Maester Aemon was talking about, does not impact this one as well. Also it says "the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat" not her hands.

[Swiftraven]

Didn't Jaime come into the world before Cersei, that would erase him from the valonquar list, personaly i think that it's gonna be Sandor.

Cersei is the older twin. There was some mention of Jaime holding Cersei's foot as they came out of the womb.

[Ser Bacardi Oakheart]

IF it is a relative, I think Jaime.

If not, either Sandor like many suspect, or the young Kettleblack who admitted to their affair, being the younger brother who began her downfall. Personally I've always suspected the Kettleblack link.

[Evil Jay]

I really think, sometimes, that folks overly complicate things. For example, dragons are mentioned as a gender-neutral term in Valyrian. Where does it say the Valonqar may be nonspecific in regards to gender? If I missed that, let me know!

I think it's a pretty straight up prophecy:

Both of the remaining children must die, then either Tyrion or Jaime will kill Cersei. HER younger brothers. Not sisters. Not anyone else's siblings. Her younger brother. Tyrion seems the most likely candidate, he harbors NO love for Cersei.

[pitakon]

she will not die at the hands of this valonqar. she'll die at her own hands. To show that her entire life was ruled by this prophecy, but it was just hokum. I still think Tommen dies, Myrcella she thinks is dead.

[Brony Stark]

The Frog specifically says 'His fingers' when regarding the Valonqar, not going to be a girl (UnTommen via Wightification though...)

[mcb]

It says "the valonqar", not "your valonqar".

And not "a valonqar", either. "And then someone who happens to have an older sibling shall wrap his hands around your throat..."? Come on. In that interpretation the prophecy is not only useless (prophecies usually are until after the fact), its information content barely exceeds white noise (which usually isn't the case).

I vote Tyrion. It looks like a murder mystery, where we eliminate the most obvious suspect precisely because he's too obvious; then he turns out to be the killer.

I would add Jon Snow and Arya as well (I read somewhere that FM members are called valonqar sometimes?

Then I nominate Elmar Frey. Twenty-second son of Lord Walder Frey. You don't get any more valonqarish than that.

[FittleLinger]

Sorry, I searched through all 5 books, but there is definitely no quote on this. I'm sure I've read it somewhere, though, but maybe it was just suggested on a forum like this, without proof.

No problem. I think that she always thought it would be Tyrion, and in the end being Jaime, would be plot-twisting enough. We've had huge gaps of theorizing for years, whereas GRRM had it set up for a long time, and that Jaime is the younger twin was barely mentioned. I mean, come on people, we've been rereading (books and forums), some obvious to us things are not obvious at all. It would be a twist. Choking her with his gold hand would be satisfactory enough, but for most readers, that haven't been visiting forums like this one, it will be pretty clever and huge, we must not forget that.