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Haggon's warg 'rules' (****ADwD spoilers****)


138FiendGirl138

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In the prolouge, Varamyr is mentored/educated by Haggon on the finer points of warging. Among other things, Haggon tells Varamyr that its an abomination to warg into another human's skin and to eat human flesh as a wolf. Bran has done BOTH so called abominations which makes me wonder..... It seems to be a big enough deal that GRRM devoted an entire chapter to these 'rules' for wargs, and yet we find Bran breaking them in his POVs(though not in a malicious way). I don't subscribe to the evil Bran theories so this is really nagging at me. Any insight/ideas would be helpful.

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I feel like these rules were taboo because it can lead to the corruption of the...spirit(?) of the skinchanger. Effectively, making him a big 'ol meanie or some such thing.

I really don't know, these rules are clearly there for a reason, or I doubt GRRM would've laid them out so expressly for us, and then shown us what happens when you break them (Varamyr get's fucked up), just for some flavor to the skinchanger mythology. I'm not sure of the consequences for Bran for breaking these rules, but I'm sure there are certainly going to be repercussions. At least I think there are going to be repercussions. Maybe. I have no idea.

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Warging and greenseeing are powerful magics,and on the basis that power corrupts,perhaps Bran gets tempted to misuse this power.

Don't think he will succumb.

Bran was untutored in the ways of warging when he warged Hodor.

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Certainly him warging into hodor is a dark side of bran, showing the appeal of misusing his power. He knows Hodor hates it, but can't resist the temptation.

Any behaviour as an animal is primarily a risk of corruption. It becomes part of you. Feeding on human flesh is done a lot by Nymeria/Arya, and she isn't that concerned about human life, possibly in part because of that.

Similar interpretation: warging is an easy way to escape accountability; the rule makes clear you are just as responsible in someone else's skin.

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Bran may not know the "rules" or rather the taboos that the Wildlings associate with warging, but he does seem to understand what he's doing to Hodor is wrong (he feels how Hodor is reacting, and he doesn't tell the Reeds, even after the first accidental time). And I think he is getting tempted to misuse it, since he goes from warging into Hodor during dangerous situations when it seemed necessary to when he's bored and wants to explore with the Reeds.

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Haggan's rules aren't trustworthy. Remember he also says people should not warg animals other than wolves/dogs...especially not birds. But, from what we've seen of the skin changer community, nobody else has a problem with it, nor has warging birds been particularly bad for anyone.

Hagan isn't reliable and his rigid rules and lack of understanding helped mold Varymyr into a monster

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Haggon has his rules, and I'm sure others have other rules, he seems to be pretty conservative on the rules thing probably due to knowing someone who wasn't. Bran seems to know when he's doing wrong, but the sooner Hodor, Jojen, and Meera leave the better.

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Didn't Bloodraven give Bran a warning that warging into birds too much might make him never feel like being on the ground again? Or was that part of Varamyr's intro?

I need to go back and re read, but yeah something sounds familiar about this. And who was it that went crazy after warging w/an eagle? The one Mel burned?? I'm looking through my book now.

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Varamyr Sixskins was the one warging the eagle, but he recovers by the prologue of ADWD. I believe his reaction was more towards the fact the Mel was the one burning the eagle with magic, on top of warging an animal that died.

And the warning about spending too much time in birds comes from Haggon. I don't believe Bloodraven gave any similar warning.

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Orel was the eagle after he died and later Varmyr stole the eagle. Haggan's rules for warging are limiting but they make sense if you want to remain a part of human society. Obviously, you don't want to be salivating over dead babies, checking out female wolves in heat, or driving other people insane. That being said, I think the rules are explicitly mentioned in order to draw attention to the fact that Bran is violating them. I don't think that makes Bran evil per se, but I think w may be seeing him move beyond society.

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1) I don't think Brans evil, even if he knows what hes doing wrong.

He may sense fear in Hodor, but just because you think you shouldn't do it temptation is just too great.

Exactly the point. He's giving into temptation despite the fact that he knows what he's doing is hurting Hodor. This is bad, and might be some set-up for further moral trouble Bran's going to be getting into.

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Exactly the point. He's giving into temptation despite the fact that he knows what he's doing is hurting Hodor. This is bad, and might be some set-up for further moral trouble Bran's going to be getting into.

When you were a kid did you allways do as you were told? Doesn't make you evil, just idk. Rebellious.

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There's a difference between me playing ball in the house, and me taking over another human being, sensing the fear and harm I'm causing, and doing it anyway because "Fuck it, I'm bored and I wanna go explore some tunnels."

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Bran doesn't know the rules. He has only started with his abilities as a greenseer and he doesn't realize that he's abusing his power in this way. It's an evil act, but Bran himself is not evil, because he isn't aware that this is wrong. I think part of his character growth will focus on him learning about all the rules of greenseeing and to not to use it as a way to compensate for the loss of his legs..

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