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Robb Stark's sudden change of character...


FittleLinger

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LOL, I've seen Cat being blamed for everything, but this seems to be a new low.

Robb was always quite incompetent as a leader and a boy out of his depth apart from military tactics, BTW. There's no change in character.

Robb was a 15 year old boy who lost his father, then sister(Arya - he thinks she's dead), then was betrayed by his oldest friend, then lost his brothers and then finds out his mother just betrayed him and screwed his campaign, considering all this and all that he accomplished you can still call him incompetent?? Cut him some slack.

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Everything is Cat's fault because she was mean to Jon that ONE time in AGOT. (inb4 people say her lashing out at jon given her son was crippled and she hadnt slept in days and that most of her family was going South is proof that she was obviously as mean to Jon on a daily basis)

Yeah, I think that the reason for the majority of Cat hate on this board even though its completely undeserved.

LOL, I've seen Cat being blamed for everything, but this seems to be a new low.

Robb was always quite incompetent as a leader and a boy out of his depth apart from military tactics, BTW. There's no change in character.

Nah, I saw Sansa blamed for the RW recently. The logic putting it together was pretty well done. Sorta, kinda.

And yeah, he was a pretty horrible leader.

I personally haven't blamed Cat for anything, so this is my first "low". If my facts are wrong, then it's another thing, but I always thought there was this parallel "See, mother, you're not the only one who can do rash and stupid things". Again if this is not factually right - I declared myself a dumbass beforehand.

Your facts are wrong, your mixing it up with the show which happens to many people, I've done it too. It was pretty badly done on the show I thought. People I spoke to in RL didn't understand her motivation very well and then she just completely shut up about what happened aftewards. Really ticked me off, another Cat character gutting moment for the show.

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I meant new low for this board as a whole, and even this is somewhat of an exaggeration.

Don' be too hard on yourself, mistakes happen.

Saw your signature now...

I really want to emphasize that I AM NOT a Cat hater. She is one of the characters that people tend to hate, but I really don't. Now, if it comes to Dany or especially Sansa, yes, there I can be quite senseless in terms of hating :)

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Robb doesn't change. The stern war leader, battle commander, and King that we see is not Robb. Its "Robb the Lord" his practiced alter-ego. Bran notices the difference back in aGoT. When Robb is injured taking the Crag, he is no longer Robb the Lord for a bit, and he discards his mask. This is his downfall.

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Robb was a 15 year old boy who lost his father, then sister(Arya - he thinks she's dead), then was betrayed by his oldest friend, then lost his brothers and then finds out his mother just betrayed him and screwed his campaign, considering all this and all that he accomplished you can still call him incompetent?? Cut him some slack.

Well said Barty. Bu then again everyone on this board would have done better supposedly

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Well said Barty. Bu then again everyone on this board would have done better supposedly

The only way to be more successful than Robb is to be more heartless from Robb. Leave Jeyne Westerling in tears and go back and marry your Frey.

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doubt most of us would have sent Theon back home,for starters.

Why not? he doesn't know much about the Iron Islands, how would he know how much of a vindictive idiot Balon Greyjoy is? His proposal was a sound one, and sending the man his only son back seems to be a very good way to sweeten the deal.

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doubt most of us would have sent Theon back home,for starters.

Nope i suppose most of us would want to keep our best friend close because theyre our best friend. People forget that Balon was always going to attack the North. He may not have taken WF but his plan was always to go North. Robb trusted Theon and was right to do so in so much as Theon didnt plan to abandon him and turn his cloak. If Theon answered Robb truthfully and Robb asked will you betray me if i send you home Theon will say no and mean it. Circumstances outside Robbs control

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The only way to be more successful than Robb is to be more heartless from Robb. Leave Jeyne Westerling in tears and go back and marry your Frey.

But then Robbs a terrible leader for not caring about his men. Iv heard it all before

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Why not? he doesn't know much about the Iron Islands, how would he know how much of a vindictive idiot Balon Greyjoy is? His proposal was a sound one, and sending the man his only son back seems to be a very good way to sweeten the deal.

Theon was a hostage, remember? The Iron Isles have never gotten along with the North and his presence at WF was specifically meant to ensure that Balon behaved himself.

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Theon was a hostage, remember? The Iron Isles have never gotten along with the North and his presence at WF was specifically meant to ensure that Balon behaved himself.

of course, but given the fact that Theon's plan (lets take the West) is much better than Balon's (lets invade the least fertile and populous areas of the North!), why would anyone dream that Balon would go with the stupid one?

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of course, but given the fact that Theon's plan (lets take the West) is much better than Balon's (lets invade the least fertile and populous areas of the North!), why would anyone dream that Balon would go with the stupid one?

The same reason Robb raised the North and declared war against the Iron Throne: revenge for a loved one's death.

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...from a stark, stern, successful war leader and suitable heir to his father, to a 16-year old delusioned boy in love. Well, to be prompt, I blame Cat! He thought her freeing the Kingslayer would justify his rash and undoubtedly wrong decision. It fits with the pattern of Starks constantly screwing themselves - Ned revealing his discovery to Cersei, Sansa revealing Ned's plans...

I know this can provoke a lot of different points and opinions, and there's certainly no problem with that, but what I really want to know is if you think if Cat hadn't freed Jaime, than Rob might have not get married?

PS: I know "what if" threads aren't of much use, but there, I made one, just wanted to share an opinion and get others.

You must be talking about SHOW Robb, because BOOK Robb's only motivation for marrying Jeyne was honor, and nothing else was going on there at all.

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The same reason Robb raised the North and declared war against the Iron Throne: revenge for a loved one's death.

more like "the same reason Lord Karstark executed the Lannister squires". Its one thing to kill an enemy in battle, as Balon's older sons died. Its another to execute an enemy in cold blood the way Joffrey did. Not to mention Balon's own life was spared.

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He could've wed her to one of his bannermen-it's not as though the choice was between wedding her or leaving her dishonoured.

ha so marry the woman he loves to one of his bannermen and then if all turns out well all you have to see is her with her husband, youll probably end up making him a cuckold and her husband an enemy and your own marriage will never be happy because you have a constant reminder of what youv lost and cant have. Dont think that will work

The price paid for the Crossing was always too much. Walder should be happy to see his grandson as lord paramount of the riverlands but he has to be the vindictive killer

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The same reason Robb raised the North and declared war against the Iron Throne: revenge for a loved one's death.

Perhaps if Balons wife was in charge it would be for vengeance-she seems the type for love. Does Balon seem like the man to love? Hes fond of Asha and thats it. The Starks didnt kill his sons and kept good care of Theon, raising him well. If Balon was looking for vengeance he can attack KL to get to Bobs children or Seagard because Jason Mallister killed Maron or the other one there

I reiterate this

People forget that Balon was always going to attack the North. He may not have taken WF but his plan was always to go North. Robb trusted Theon and was right to do so in so much as Theon didnt plan to abandon him and turn his cloak. If Theon answered Robb truthfully and Robb asked will you betray me if i send you home Theon will say no and mean it. Circumstances outside Robbs control

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Robb doesn't change. The stern war leader, battle commander, and King that we see is not Robb. Its "Robb the Lord" his practiced alter-ego. Bran notices the difference back in aGoT. When Robb is injured taking the Crag, he is no longer Robb the Lord for a bit, and he discards his mask. This is his downfall.

Really well put. I like it.

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