Robb Stark's sudden change of character...

[The Manhood-Eating Goat]

Robb's sudden change of character.

He was a child with some future responsibility.

He was thrust into adulthood.

He let his cock do the thinking and chucked it all away.

Standard change of character in a man, to be honest.

[David Selig]

Robb was a 15 year old boy who lost his father, then sister(Arya - he thinks she's dead), then was betrayed by his oldest friend, then lost his brothers and then finds out his mother just betrayed him and screwed his campaign, considering all this and all that he accomplished you can still call him incompetent?? Cut him some slack.

Robb was mostly incompetent apart from military tactics (and even there he screwed up with Edmure and the "Hold Riverrun" fiasco), this is a fact. What else did he do well?

Sure, he did decently overall for a 15-16 year old with no experience. But this is a really low benchmark. There's a reason we don't give power to make crucial decisions to 15 year olds anymore - they tend to really suck at this.

Perhaps if Balons wife was in charge it would be for vengeance-she seems the type for love. Does Balon seem like the man to love? Hes fond of Asha and thats it. The Starks didnt kill his sons and kept good care of Theon, raising him well. If Balon was looking for vengeance he can attack KL to get to Bobs children or Seagard because Jason Mallister killed Maron or the other one there

I reiterate this

People forget that Balon was always going to attack the North. He may not have taken WF but his plan was always to go North. Robb trusted Theon and was right to do so in so much as Theon didnt plan to abandon him and turn his cloak. If Theon answered Robb truthfully and Robb asked will you betray me if i send you home Theon will say no and mean it. Circumstances outside Robbs control

But you don't just give up an asset like Theon to someone like Balon without getting anything in return. It doesn't matter how faithful Theon was to Robb, just sending him to his father without getting anything for him was stupid. Robb should've send someone else as an envoy and ask Balon to attack the Lannisters. Only if Balon commits to this and proves his willingness to help Robb's cause, then it would've made sense to release Theon.

[Longspear Ryk]

Catylen freed the kingslayer and fucked up his life

[Queen Cersei I]


...from a stark, stern, successful war leader and suitable heir to his father, to a 16-year old delusioned boy in love. Well, to be prompt, I blame Cat! He thought her freeing the Kingslayer would justify his rash and undoubtedly wrong decision. It fits with the pattern of Starks constantly screwing themselves - Ned revealing his discovery to Cersei, Sansa revealing Ned's plans...
I know this can provoke a lot of different points and opinions, and there's certainly no problem with that, but what I really want to know is if you think if Cat hadn't freed Jaime, than Rob might have not get married?

PS: I know "what if" threads aren't of much use, but there, I made one, just wanted to share an opinion and get others.


Cat was known to change strong, able men into monsters. Let's review:


CASE #1:

Littlefinger, A.K.A., The Spurned Suitor

Littlefinger, by all accounts, was bright, happy, loving boy; bursting with energy, goodness, and life. Goodness dripped off of him like juice from a frozen pickle. All around him were heard to proclaim: "Aye, the great Lord Baelish will go far, for there is nothing that a loving heart, guarded by a agile mind, cannot achieve." Alas! Such things were not to be! For it was not long before CATELYN STARK ensnared the honorable young Bealish in her depraved woman's snares.

CATELYN STARK set eyes upon Littlefinger, and discerned that he would be the perfect object upon which to test her depraved, all-powerful feminine wiles. Casting shame, modesty, and proper dental hygiene to the winds, the promiscuous Cat (along with her flighty sister Lysa) embarked in furious tonsil hockey sessions, with which she quickly entrapped LF’S mind and ensnared his senses. Helpless, he could do little but challenge the bigger, stronger, richer, infinitely superior lord she had previously ensnared to a duel. Of course, Littlefinger was nearly killed, and the wicked Catelyn laughed her triumph. Brandon, oblivious to Catelyn’s wickedness, set a date for the wedding.

But young Petyr Baelish was never the same. From that day forth, he commenced to go crazy and evil wreak havoc on all around him—all due to the wicked seduction of one CATELYN TULLY!

CASE TWO:
Brandon, A.K.A. the Destroyed Fiancé

Once a clever, modest boy, it was not long before Brandon, too, was destroyed by Cat’s promiscuous, teasing charms. Once a noble Stark, after meeting the depraved Cat, he was soon spouting off lines like, “I want my sword sharp enough to shave the hair off a woman’s cunt!” and seducing innocent maidens left and right, no doubt at the perverse Catelyn’s command.

Finally, looking upon his own depravity and no longer willing to live, he decided to commit suicide by stupidity by riding into king’s landing and threatening the crowned prince to the notoriously nutty King Aerys “firebrand” Targaryen.

Is it any coincidence that he did this mere hours before joining his life to Cat’s forevermore? I think not.

Number yet another victim to Cat’s notorious list.

CASE THREE:

Ned, A.K.A., the Husband-- LOBOTOMIZED!

Ned Stark ruled the north with intelligence for years. He then proceeded to go to kings landing, find out about the wicked queens incest, threaten her to her face, and hear her tell him a bunch of obvious warnings about winning or dying. Then, rather than leaving or getting help, as any normal person would do, Ned proceeded to wait and wait for days, actively turning down various offers for help, until his head almost literally fell off by stupidity.

What could have motivated such behavior on Eddard's part? Clearly, Ned’s stupidity here was so blatant, so ridiculous, that it could only be intentional. He, like Brandon, committed suicide by epic dumbness—all to get away from Cat.

And victim number three joins the list.

CASE FOUR:

Bran, A.K.A., The Son Destroyed By a Mother's Love, or, The Oedipus of Westeros

Clearly, Bran was a young boy who was bright and sensible. So why, then, would he climb the crumbling ramparts of Winterfell, peeking in random windows near the tower where the queen and her “special” brother were staying? The answer is, once again—self-sabotage.

Bran knew well of Cat’s unnatural, unmotherly love for him. (At one point, she calls him “he sweet, special boy.” Truly, does this revolting woman know no shame?!!!) Sensing a situation we can only call Oedipal, Bran became determined to do away with himself and defy his devouring mother all in one fell swoop. When his eyes set upon the crumbling ramparts of Winterfell, which Cat had, in the past, ordered him never to climb, he knew just what to do.

CASE FIVE:

Robb, A.K.A., The Son Driven To Horniness by His Own Mother's Wiles

The case of a healthy 16 year old boy acting foolishly in matters regarding the opposite sex is so shockingly rare that, in itself, it is hard to accept as fact. But when the boy is such a one as Robb Stark, it is difficult-- nay!-- impossible!

Clearly Robb's horniness-- as evidenced by him sleeping with an attractive member of the opposite sex during an emotional trauma at the age of 16 when he knew he wasn’t supposed to-- is truly unprecedented in human nature. What could drive a 16-year-old boy to bang a hot 16-year-old girl?

Clearly, for the answer to such conundrums, we must look to the boy’s mother.

For who else could lure Robb into "accidentally" banging a hot chick at 16? Surely not society, his own hormones, or basic common sense that dictates that a 16 year old has about as much control over his "great other" as an owner has over a rabid dog.

Once again, Cat's pernicious feminine influence here was clearly at work behind the scene. Unsatisfied with corrupting the good Lord Baelish, the innocent Brandon, the brilliant Ned, and the Oedipal Bran, she now Set her sights upon Robb Stark.

No one can be sure how she did it, but somehow she must have spiritually take possession of the boy, forced him to get an erection, take off his clothes, then enter said erection into a young lady's vagina. Simply put, Cat once again used her woman's wiles to destroy the hapless men around her. Is there no end to her treachery!

In short: In the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no other way....

UNLESS-- you are Cat. In which case you proceed to enter the various men around you, possess them, lead them to do evil and/ or gawddaful stupid things which destroys all those around them, and then get blamed for the bad decision making on the part of the males. Because it's all your fault!

[Winter's Knight]

Cersei's Vortex of Evil is facing some stiff competition.

[E-Ro]

What could have motivated such as scam? Clearly, Ned’s stupidity here was so blatant, so ridiculous, that it could only be intentional. He, like Brandon, committed suicide by epic dumbness—all to get away from Cat.

:rofl: HA! This makes so much sense, damnit she is even responsible for neds death! That vile horrible woman!

I enjoyed your post alot, it was really funny.

[Naathi Prince]

Thing that bothers me is how rob saw how Ned raised Jon and in all accounts jon had a very good upbringing at winterfell and there was no reason he couldnt have just taken her along with them and if she got pregnant from that night of passion he couldve raised the bastard fair and good like ned did with jon. He still couldve married the stupid frey girl and had a bastard, shit his whole life he thinks his dad had a bastard dont see why he thought he couldnt have one as well.

Still, having to marry a frey would fucking suck. bugger them all.

he also sees how awfully unfair it is to Jon that he's a bastard as well.

[Naathi Prince]

the whole "Robb let his dick make his choices" line is ridiculous. Jeyne Westerling came to his bed willingly. He screwed her. He's a dude. 90% of men will have sex with a girl who is trying to have sex with them. She's literally the only girl Robb has sex with. This statement is totally unfair. The problem wasn't having sex with Jeyne, it was marrying her. He did that because he's too good for his own good.

[Queen Cersei I]

Cersei's Vortex of Evil is facing some stiff competition.

Perhaps "stiff" is the wrong adjective to use in this particular context.... :uhoh:

Anyway, I think Cersei's genitals continue to reign supreme in the catalogues of wicked female organs. Just yesterday someone quite seriously argued that Cersei's vagina was indeed the great other, had single handedly (again, maybe wrong phrasing there???) ruined numerous lives, and caused the deaths of countless people.

I was going to argue that perhaps Cersei's genitals did not, in fact, act alone, but were accompanied by Arrianne's notoriously evil nipples, but I decided to forgo this serious topic for later.

But seriously-- someone argued in all seriousness that Cersei's genitals were a. evil and b. the Great Other. (Once again, no trolling and no joke, said person argued seriously and backed up their argument that 9/10ths of Westeros misery originated directly from Cersei's vagina.)

I think Cat has a ways to go before her petty crimes of son and husband ruining can compare.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I only read the first few post, so I apologize if this has already been said, but...

Robb Stark was more than a horny boy that let his penis do his thinking for him...let's look at the facts here...

1. His mom reveals that she believes the Lannisters pushed his little brother out of a window. The same Lannisters that are south with his father and sisters.

2. His mom leaves him as the acting Lord of Winterfell while she rides south to warn his father about the potential dangers surrounding him.

3. His father is falsely accused of treason and arrested, forcing him to raise his banners and go to war.

4. His mother makes a marriage contract for him to cross the Twins, so he can rescue his father. He has no choice but to accept, because that is the only way to save his father and sisters.

5. After making this marriage contract and taking Jamie Lannister -the best bargaining to win back his father and sisters- captive he discovers that his father has been be-headed. He doesn't have the luxury of falling apart because he is now the Lord of Winterfell, and cannot look weak in front of his bannermen,

6. He cannot go home, because not only has he been crowned as the King in the North, but his sisters are still captive down south.

7. He has no idea if one of his sisters is dead or alive. Against his mother's wishes he can't trade Jamie Lannister for his own sisters because he would look like a fool to his bannermen.

8. His best-friend betrays him by killing his little brothers while also taking his castle.

9. He takes a wound in battle.

10. The girl attending to his wound -after his has been forced to go to war, his father has been be-headed, he has been crowned as the King in the North, one of his sisters may be dead, his best friend has murdered his brothers, and he's still at war but has no home- shows him a little affection, and he sleeps with her.

Maybe it's just me, but I totally understand how Robb had a weak moment, and I do not believe it was due to him being a hormonal teenage boy. His only fault was being a naive teenage boy, and that is not something that causes me to look down on him. Not only does he know he was wrong for laying down with Jenye, he does the honorable thing by marrying her. He understands the repercussions of his actions, but feels he now has no choice. He then attempts amends with the Freys,

I view Robb Stark as a honorable man throughout his story, and I feel he was forced into some impossible situations making his decisions understandable.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

I always thought there was this parallel "See, mother, you're not the only one who can do rash and stupid things". Again if this is not factually right - I declared myself a dumbass beforehand.

There was. Cat specifically notices that Robb when she sees Robb's stupid mistake that he might go easier on hers. But despite her many, manay flaws, Cat is entirely blameless on the matter. Neither of them knew of each other's dumbass mistake at the time they made their own.

[A wilding]

It appears that the key factor was Robb hearing of Bran and Rickon's "deaths". Jeyne comforted him while he was off balance from that, with the inevitable consequence. I would guess that the fact that the sex came out of her comforting him, as opposed to her just jumping on him, was partly why he married her - it created an emotional connection as well as a physical one.

So I suppose that if you are perverse enough to try to blame Catelyn for the fall of Winterfell, you could also blame her for Robb's marriage. (Though I am not sure that I should post that, someone might take me seriously.)

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

It appears that the key factor was Robb hearing of Bran and Rickon's "deaths". Jeyne comforted him while he was off balance from that, with the inevitable consequence.

This!

[Kittyhat]

Clearly, Catelyn is to blame for absolutely everything (except the things Daenerys or Sansa are already to blame for, of course), including events she had no control over whatsoever and wasn't even physically present for.

I'm not even that fond of Catelyn, but this thread is just ridiculous.

[Frey Pie]

I only read the first few post, so I apologize if this has already been said, but...

Robb Stark was more than a horny boy that let his penis do his thinking for him...let's look at the facts here...

1. His mom reveals that she believes the Lannisters pushed his little brother out of a window. The same Lannisters that are south with his father and sisters.

2. His mom leaves him as the acting Lord of Winterfell while she rides south to warn his father about the potential dangers surrounding him.

3. His father is falsely accused of treason and arrested, forcing him to raise his banners and go to war.

4. His mother makes a marriage contract for him to cross the Twins, so he can rescue his father. He has no choice but to accept, because that is the only way to save his father and sisters.

5. After making this marriage contract and taking Jamie Lannister -the best bargaining to win back his father and sisters- captive he discovers that his father has been be-headed. He doesn't have the luxury of falling apart because he is now the Lord of Winterfell, and cannot look weak in front of his bannermen,

6. He cannot go home, because not only has he been crowned as the King in the North, but his sisters are still captive down south.

7. He has no idea if one of his sisters is dead or alive. Against his mother's wishes he can't trade Jamie Lannister for his own sisters because he would look like a fool to his bannermen.

8. His best-friend betrays him by killing his little brothers while also taking his castle.

9. He takes a wound in battle.

10. The girl attending to his wound -after his has been forced to go to war, his father has been be-headed, he has been crowned as the King in the North, one of his sisters may be dead, his best friend has murdered his brothers, and he's still at war but has no home- shows him a little affection, and he sleeps with her.

Maybe it's just me, but I totally understand how Robb had a weak moment, and I do not believe it was due to him being a hormonal teenage boy. His only fault was being a naive teenage boy, and that is not something that causes me to look down on him. Not only does he know he was wrong for laying down with Jenye, he does the honorable thing by marrying her. He understands the repercussions of his actions, but feels he now has no choice. He then attempts amends with the Freys,

I view Robb Stark as a honorable man throughout his story, and I feel he was forced into some impossible situations making his decisions understandable.

Well said!! Couldnt agree more