J. Stargaryen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 A collection of common misconceptions.Targaryens are fireproof. Event Horizon Chat TranscriptGranny -Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?George_RR_Martin -Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! (emphasis mine) The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.'X' can't be a Targaryen, he/she doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes. The most recent example (not counting Jon Snow) is Rhaenys, daughter of Rhaegar and Elia. Rhaenys took after her mother in appearance, she had brown hair and looked like a Martell.Characters with purple eyes and silver hair must be (secret) Targaryens. These particular genetic traits are common in Essos, and therefore not exclusive to Targaryens.Targaryens cannot get sick.Dany has been sick and/or feverish twice in the series. Once in AGOT after the stillbirth of her son and once in ADWD after eating bad berries and/or drinking bad water.Several Targaryens died during the Great Spring Sickness including King Daeron and two of his grandsons. Another Daeron, Daeron the Drunken (who had sandy brown hair), died of pox.Genetic traits are inherited through the male line in aSoIaF. House Stark is probably the most obvious example to the contrary: Robb, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon all display the Tully traits of their mother, Lady Catelyn. Only Arya inherited the Stark traits passed down from Lord Eddard.Bran's Greensight is limited to weirdwoods. i.e.: "Bran shan't see X, because there were no weirdwoods where/when X happened." “<SNIP> Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carvedeyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use …but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves.”Even if R+L=J Jon Snow has to still be a bastard because Rhaegar was already married.Targaryens have been involved in polygamous marriage in the past. Targaryen Family TreeAzor Ahai reborn and the Prince that was Promised are different people. This is listed as a point of reference rather than an absolute truth. That said, the characters in aSoIaF who are familiar with the prophecies do use the terms interchangeably. All of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?” “He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see it. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire.”'Valonqar' is, or may be gender-neutral. This likely misconception seems to stem from the fact that the High Valyrian word for 'dragon' is gender-neutral. The reason for this is that dragons have no gender differentiation, unlike humans.In the case of 'valonqar' all indications are that the word specifically means 'little brother'. From Maggy the Frog's wiki page: She allowed Cersei three questions and made the prophecy of the valonqar (High Valyrian for "little brother")... and Cersei:"Will the king and I have children?"Maggy:"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."(emphasis mine)Rhaegar disappearing with Lyanna started the war known as Robert's Rebellion. This was not the beginning of the rebellion but, in fact, the prologue. A minor distinction to some, but also an important one. The Cliffsnotes version:R+LArrest and detention of Brandon Stark, et al.Summoning to King's Landing of Rickard Stark, et al.Executions without trial of Rickard and Brandon Stark, et al.Aerys II orders Jon Arryn to send him the heads of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark.Jon Arryn refuses. Instead, He, Robert and Ned raised their respective banners in revolt, and thus began Robert's Rebellion; aka The War of the Usurper.A more detailed account (minus "et als." :lol:) can be found here: Robert's RebellionBecause many people on the internet (a fraction of the total readership) have figured out R+L=J, GRRM might change it. Do you use to check the Internet forums in order to see the predictions made by your fans?I am aware of the principal Internet forums about A Song of Ice and Fire and I really used to look at the American and English groups. Nowadays, the most important site is Westeros, but I started to feel uncomfortable and I thought it would be a better idea not to get to these sides. The fans use to come up with theories; lots of them are just speculative but some of them are in the right way. Before the Internet, one reader could guess the ending you wanna do for your novel, but the other 10.000 wouldn’t know anything and they would be surprised. However, now, those 10.000 people use the Internet and read the right theories. They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing well you work, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar.Have you ever change any of your ideas just because your fans got you?I ultimately thought I don’t wanna change anything. What I have to remember is that if one person figures out the ending and 10.000 people read it, they will doubt and still, a 100.000 people won’t see the post on the Internet and they will be surprised. I have to say that for each correct theory on the Internet are at least 1.000 incorrect theories. People use to see shadows on the wall when there is nothing, but I am aware about that stuff. In fact, my wife Parris use to enter to those forums and apprises me if there is anything particularly important, but that’s it. 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Fire Eater Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ashara Dayne's child is Aegon, and Septa Lemore is Ashara DayneSometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he was looking at Ashara's daughter . . . But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and her fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief over the child she lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. . . . If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Targaryens cannot get sick.Dany has been sick and/or feverish twice in the series. Once in AGOT after the stillbirth of her son and once in ADWD after eating bad berries and/or drinking bad water. Several Targaryens died during the Great Spring Sickness including King Daeron and two of his sons. Another Daeron, Daeron the Drunken (who had sandy brown hair), died of pox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 From a recent thread.... not Targaryen related (or is it.....)Catelyn emotionally abused Jon and made his life at Winterfell a living hellCompletely and 100% not true. She kept silent while he played with her children, and kept all her emotions to herself. Just because she'd rather have Jon in a coma than Bran does not mean she abused him his entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better_off_Ned Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Hot Pie is Azor Ahai RebornThere is virtually no evidence of this being the case, anywhere in the books. Yet this is the most common misconception that I frequently hear from fans, both from the television show and the novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Hot Pie is Azor Ahai RebornThere is virtually no evidence of this being the case, anywhere in the books. Yet this is the most common misconception that I frequently hear from fans, both from the television show and the novels.True, there's much better evidence for Hodor or Dolorous Edd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsoiafFTW! Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Hot Pie is Azor Ahai RebornThere is virtually no evidence of this being the case, anywhere in the books. Yet this is the most common misconception that I frequently hear from fans, both from the television show and the novels.there is salt and smoke in the kitchens dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better_off_Ned Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 there is salt and smoke in the kitchens dude.So, I was in a kitchen earlier today. There was some salt, and I burned the Hot Pocket (no relation) in the microwave, causing a large amount of smoke to billow out. Am I Azor Ahai?Just not enough. You're going to have to trust me on this, Hot Pie could possibly be a warg and a secret Targ, but he is no Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Thanks guys. I'll start adding your suggestions to the OP probably tomorrow. Well, except for the Hot Pie stuff... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsoiafFTW! Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 So, I was in a kitchen earlier today. There was some salt, and I burned the Hot Pocket (no relation) in the microwave, causing a large amount of smoke to billow out. Am I Azor Ahai?Just not enough. You're going to have to trust me on this, Hot Pie could possibly be a warg and a secret Targ, but he is no Azor Ahai.don't know maybe you are... in which part of westeros were you exactly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Benjen is Coldhands. Coldhands died "long ago" Benjen has been missing for around two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 That revenge is wrong in Westeros .In the Rat cook story it says a man has a right to revenge.i could be wrong of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_Patreck Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Bran's Greensight is limited to weirdwoods. i.e.: "Bran shan't see X, because there were no weirdwoods where/when X happened."“Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees haveseen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. Men live their lives trapped in an eternalpresent, between the mists of memory and the sea of shadow that is all we know of the days to come.Certain moths live their whole lives in a day, yet to them that little span of time must seem as long asyears and decades do to us. An oak may live three hundred years, a redwood tree three thousand. Aweirwood will live forever if left undisturbed. To them seasons pass in the flutter of a moth’s wing, andpast, present, and future are one. Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carvedeyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use …but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I've updated the OP. Some suggestions were not included, as I felt they did not meet the criteria. I'm looking to be able to definitively rule out certain notions. The evidence against Benjen being Coldhands is pretty compelling, but not quite definitive, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'll come back with evidence, but Valyrian is NOT gender-neutral, and therefore valonqar could not refer to a female character. It is the word dragon specifically that is gender-neutral in Valyrian, because dragons have no fixed gender. This comes from Maester Aemon in a Sam POV, I believe, when they are talking about why Dany could be the person they are waiting for. Also, nowhere in the books does it say anything about Daven Lannister getting married at Riverrun. Is it possible that he might? Yes. But the books themselves say nothing about it, nor when the wedding is going to happen. He has not even picked a Frey yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Rhaegar disappearing with Lyanna started the war known as Robert's Rebellion. This was not the beginning of the rebellion but, in fact, the prologue. A minor distinction to some, but also an important one. The Cliffsnotes version:R+LArrest and detention of Brandon Stark, et al.Summoning to King's Landing of Rickard Stark, et al.Executions without trial of Rickard and Brandon Stark, et al.Aerys II orders Jon Arryn to send him the heads of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark.Jon Arryn refuses, and raises his banners; thus the beginning of the rebellion.A more detailed account (minus "et als." :lol:) can be found here: Robert's Rebellion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Azor Ahai reborn and the Prince that was Promised are different people. AA and the Prince that was Promised may well be the same person, but the Religions of Westeros video does not establish that this is the case. The video you provided from Martin clearly has him speaking from Melisandre's point of view about what she believes, not from the objective point of view of the author.As for the quote from the text, all that really tells us is that Aemon and Melisandre share a belief that they are the same figure. We've seen both characters make mistakes. Neither is infallible and people in Martin's world have a habit of being wrong when they confidently make bold assertions about something important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 AA and the Prince that was Promised may well be the same person, but the Religions of Westeros video does not establish that this is the case. The video you provided from Martin clearly has him speaking from Melisandre's point of view about what she believes, not from the objective point of view of the author.As for the quote from the text, all that really tells us is that Aemon and Melisandre share a belief that they are the same figure. We've seen both characters make mistakes. Neither is infallible and people in Martin's world have a habit of being wrong when they confidently make bold assertions about something important.I'll take a look at it, thanks. I have to admit I snipped those bits from another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Summer Islander Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 That in order to be a Targaryen you have to have at least Silver hair, or purple eyes. This is so not true.That is you have silver hair or purple eyes you must be part Targaryen. This is so not true.Lets Start from the beginning. (RVT will be used for those who had the regular Valyrian traits of Silver hair and purple eyes)Aegon I; RVTVisenya: RVTRhaenys: RVTThese three being the original line of the Westeros Targaryens. And are the blueprint for the RVT which is Silver-blonde hair and purple eyes which all three had.*I did note a difference in the shade of purple in certain characters eyes.Maegor I: RVTAenys: RVTJaehaerys I: RVTAlysanne: Silver hair, clear blue eyes*brother and sister/husband+wifeViserys I: RVTRhaenyra: RVTAegon II: RVTAemond: ?Aegon III: RVTViserys II: RVTDaeron I: RVTRhaena: silver-gold/more gold purple eyes Elaena: platinum white/gold streak soft lilac eyesBaelor I: RVTDaena: RVT*brothers and sistersAegon IV: RVTNaerys: RVTAemon: ?Daemon Blackfyre: RVTAegor Bittersteel Rivers: black hair, purple eyesBrynden Bloodraven Rivers: albino, red eyesShiera Seastar: silver-gold hair, blue eye, green eye*great bastards all had differnet mothersDaeron II: RVTDaenerys I: ?Aegon Blackfyre: ?Aemn Blackfyre:?Daemon II: RVTHaegon: ?Baelor Breakspear: dark hair, dark eyesAerys I: RVTAelinor: ?Rhaegal:?Maekar I: pale blone almost white, violet eyes*brothers and sistersValarr: dark hair, blue eyesMatarys: ?Daeron: sandy brown, ?Aerion: RVTMaester Aemon:?Aegon V: RVTRhae: ?Daella:?*brothers and sistersDuncan:?Jaehaerys II: RVTRhaelle:?Aerys II: RVTRhaella:?Rhaegar: RVTViserys:RVTDaenerys:RVTRhaenys: brown hair dark eyes*father(Rhaegar) had RVT mother(Elia) was dornish and had dark hair and dark eyesAegon VI: as a babe fair haired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Targaryens cannot get sick.Dany has been sick and/or feverish twice in the series. Once in AGOT after the stillbirth of her son and once in ADWD after eating bad berries and/or drinking bad water.Several Targaryens died during the Great Spring Sickness including King Daeron and two of his sons. Another Daeron, Daeron the Drunken (who had sandy brown hair), died of pox.No, his grandsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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