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White-Luck Warrior X: X Marks the Slog

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Can I get a bit of a refresher? Are we not pretty well informed about the Consult in book 1?

As I remember we know:

- there was an apocalypse

- the Consult wants to do it again

- the Mandate is the only ones who still believe they exist.

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So no series of the past like, at least 25 years rewards reading?

Hah - as if this was the same as all others. As if it is the same degree. Malazan is a fair comparison, though at least things are happening a bit earlier that matter for their own sake.

But finding out at the end of the second book what's actually at stake? What other book does that? Wot didn't. Asoiaf certainly doesn't. Donaldson didn't.

Thinking on it, you can divide it up where you know more than the characters or you know less. Bakker is firmly in the know less state. And that's fine! Many books work for the surprise. The big reveal. Problem is when the reveal isn't worth the wait.

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Hah - as if this was the same as all others. As if it is the same degree. Malazan is a fair comparison, though at least things are happening a bit earlier that matter for their own sake.

But finding out at the end of the second book what's actually at stake? What other book does that? Wot didn't. Asoiaf certainly doesn't. Donaldson didn't.

Thinking on it, you can divide it up where you know more than the characters or you know less. Bakker is firmly in the know less state. And that's fine! Many books work for the surprise. The big reveal. Problem is when the reveal isn't worth the wait.

You know what's at stake right from the start. The Consult wants to bring about the Second Apocalypse. You learn this in literally the first chapter. (although it doesn't feel like it cause the prologue is hella long) Inrau's death at like the third or halfway mark of the book establishes that they are moving right now too and there's plenty of foreshadowing before that. The climax of the first book connects the weird shit going on before that to the greater threat of the Consult.

All the big speech at the end of TWP does is infodump the exact nature of the enemy and the apocalypse. None of which is really necessary to anything before that point. The stakes are already well known before then. The word "apocalypse" is fairly descriptive on it's own.

As I mentioned before, this is far more then Abercrombie ever gives you in the First Law before he dumps it over halfway through book 2.

And saying "well, it's not worth the wait" is purely subjective.

Look, if in medias res isn't your thing, whatever. But let's not pretend it's not the standard.

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WraithOfTinyKittens, you should join up. As should anyone and everyone else interested in the reread. The 15th of August has been put forth as our start date and seconded by myself. It looks like five days to read a chapter and discuss. The issues of spoilers beyond thread heading, for instance discussing TJE, Ch. 9 in TWP, Ch. 2 thread, is still being discussed.

Also, I'm still a firm believer that most of us in these Westeros One-Thread Famines have simply let the loudest perspectives dominate our collective noosphere. EAMD is clearly not as prevalent as everyone seems to think nor are the pendulous phalli. It's probably just what sticks with certain people the most as they are intrusions into their subjective worlds.

Gotta remember, Bakker seems to be playing with his readers and their readings, even against one another. It's all about the ambiguity.

Hence, bring on the damn chronicle.

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Also, I'm still a firm believer that most of us in these Westeros One-Thread Famines have simply let the loudest perspectives dominate our collective noosphere.

You a Teilhard man Madness?

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I will check in with your reread project tomorrow.

I'm not sure how you'd do it, but I'd be very interested if everyone tries to chat about each chapter without spoiling later stuff. I've read through the original trilogy several times, and the last two twice now, but I still would love to start over and really focus on all the complexity without necessarily knowing all the reveals later - even though I pretty much know what's motivating what per the first five books.

Fun idea regardless.

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Shryke, it very well may be worth the wait. I'm not saying it isn't. I am saying that the danger of that kind of storytelling is that the payoff needs to be awesome or the whole thing can feel lame. If you do it right the whole thing is extra awesome. But that's hard to do.

And we know from the start the consult was trying to bring about the end of the world. Maybe. We don't actually know what they were up to. Point of fact we still don't. We don't even know if they are trying to get the no god again.

Also, it annoyed me in Abercrombie. His books were fun enough and the characters mostly interesting enough that I didn't need the overarching plan but it did feel like a whole lot of random meh.

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Abercrombie was doing the whole "Cynical Twist conclusion" thing with the First Law Trilogy (and his other books in that universe), so he probably had to hold back on it as long as possible.

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WraithOfTinyKittens, you should join up. As should anyone and everyone else interested in the reread. The 15th of August has been put forth as our start date and seconded by myself. It looks like five days to read a chapter and discuss. The issues of spoilers beyond thread heading, for instance discussing TJE, Ch. 9 in TWP, Ch. 2 thread, is still being discussed.

A reread project? Have I missed something? There will be a special thread?

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The re-read project was just mentioned one page ago by Madness ;p it will be not on this forum, but on the Second Apocalypse forum

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Yes, I see that now. Thx. :leaving:

It's okay, no need to be embarassed. EAMD, after all.

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Lol. I initially tried to garner The Second Apocalyspe attention by the graces of Pat and Wert - Pat plugged it on the Hotlist almost immediately and Bakker did on TPB shortly after. I think we're only nearing the fourth month, with exactly, at this moment of writing, 121 threads and 121 members. An auspicious little community indeed.

Again, I invite anyone to join the forum at all, if only to lurk, but, more importantly, to sign up for the Slog of Slogs: PON Edition, get in on the discussion about spoilers and timing - I'll probably be reading the prologue on my plane ride tommorow and posting about it around midday EST.

It'll be a soft start... Shimeh is only so many horizons from Ishual.

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sign up for the Slog of Slogs: PON Edition,

The slog of slogs!!!!!!!!!!!

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It's okay, no need to be embarassed. EAMD, after all.

EAMD indeed. Thank god pendulous phalli were not involved.

Again, I invite anyone to join the forum at all, if only to lurk, but, more importantly, to sign up for the Slog of Slogs: PON Edition, get in on the discussion about spoilers and timing - I'll probably be reading the prologue on my plane ride tommorow and posting about it around midday EST.

I am a member, but I haven't been around much. Did lurk a bit though.

The slog of slogs!!!!!!!!!!!

To the Coffers, boys!

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http://rsbakker.word.../#comment-11764

Bakker says he hasn't forgotten the sample chapter, but that he needs to finish the final chapter "to finalize the details." Does that mean something in the first chapter is contingent on how he writes the ending? So the White-Luck is right - what comes after does determine what comes before! Aha, I'm so clever, I should post that in reply.

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I love how much Rhom loves to say "The slog of slogs!!"

I could picture us, on some weekend when the wife takes the kid out of town, where we hit the pubcrawl on our way to a UK basketball game and declare "The slog of slogs!" as we move from locale to locale.

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I love how much Rhom loves to say "The slog of slogs!!"

I could picture us, on some weekend when the wife takes the kid out of town, where we hit the pubcrawl on our way to a UK basketball game and declare "The slog of slogs!" as we move from locale to locale.

The slog of slogs!!!!!!!!!!

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There is something I'm thinking back on from WLW which confuses the Hell out of me, and I can't remember if we've discussed it or not.

I might be reading something the wrong way, but it seemed to be implied in turns both that The Consult was trying to protect Mimara and that it was trying to replace her w/ a skin spy. Did anyone else get that impression? If so, what gives?

ETA: I also wonder if Arthmail would be happier if The Slog of Slogs! replaced EAMD as the go-to catch phrase.

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