Was Shae Tywin's spy all along?

[pat]

From perceiving Shae's actions in the books, it seems like Tyrion was truly smitten by Shae (obviously), but Shae was with Tyrion purely to experience life at KL inside the Red Keep, live a better life, in a possibly better place than where she was picked up from. So after Tyrion was accused by Cersei for killing Joffrey, Shae turned on him when Cersei offered her something in return (any idea what it was? I can't see to recall), thus she turned on Tyrion. Because she didn't love him truly, just his position and power.

But why would Shae soon after be sleeping with Tywin? Was it just a job? Or more?

Because Tyrion was a fool and never payed her. He gave her jewels and clothes. but he took them away. Cercei promised Shae these things Tyrion gave her then said no. So she went to Tywin. and since Tywin whipped Allaya (sp?) he couldnt use his tunnel.

its a wonderfull example of georges you cause your own doom writing style.

[The Unburnt Hound]

I'm just going to say that I don't believe the Shae in the show will in the end be any different then the Shae in the books.

[The Mother of The Others]

Interesting question. Didn't pick up on it. You think Tywin wanted to keep "lording" that whore thing over Tyrion forever? Maybe as a way to entrap his own son and keep Tyrion under his thumb psychologically. Keep the uppety boy in his place. Possible, I suppose. Maybe that's what Tyrion sort of thought when he discovered Shea in daddy's bed, even if it wasn't true. Finding Tywin with her was like proof that father and son were identical after all. Dad had kept it underground, though, not out in the open, because dad was oh so classy and concerned with propriety. If Tywin was a whoring type of guy, then what the hell are we supposed to make of him pushing the Tysha "incident" on his son???? Don't be like me, boy??? Don't take up my same vice??? Because Tywin's whoring was secretly what made his wife upset enough to seek solace in the bed of King Aerys?????!!!!!!?!?!?!???!!? And Twyin knew the kids likely weren't his?!?!!??

And it was Tyrion's known vice, so people like Varys & Petyr would use people's weaknesses against them like that to attach a spy to them. I suppose Tyrion is the kind of guy who'd get targeted by a spymaster, the way government workers with a high clearance level who live a lonely existence might suddenly find a lovely Chinese woman has taken an interest in them against all odds. In this case, for Tyrion it was 'hey this one likes me, she really likes me!' If it was Varys who planted her, he sold Tyrion on the illusion Tyr wanted to believe.

How small do we want the world to get, though? So interconnected that nobody in Westeros ever meets anyone by chance? Hmmmm. Even the "chance" meeting between Bronn and Shae might have been a set up. If she gave Bronn a freebee to ensure she got on his good side and was the one he'd take to meet Tyrion.....

[A wilding]

I see Varys as befriending Shae rather than recruiting her. Being helpful in that way he often does. (For example, how did that singer find his way to Shae's manse?) Once he has Shae thinking of him as a friend he can then manipulate her as and when useful. After all, there is probably very little Shae could tell him that he does not know already.

Reading the relevant parts of Tyrion's PoV does make it obvious that some sort of relationship exists. even if Tyrion does not seem to notice it. Shae trusts Varys enough to let herself be led around secret tunnels just on his word for example.

[Maia]

Reading the relevant parts of Tyrion's PoV does make it obvious that some sort of relationship exists. even if Tyrion does not seem to notice it. Shae trusts Varys enough to let herself be led around secret tunnels just on his word for example.

Not only that, but Varys showed Shae a secret tunnel entrance in his own bedroom and told her how to operate it! I can't agree that he was just "friendly" to her, IMHO she was clearly a recruit. Also, makes it likely that Shae could have gotten into Tywin's bedchamber under her own power.

It drives me crazy that we got no rumination on the circumstances of Tywin's death from Kevan and that nobody questioned the guards re: whether they saw Shae enter. It is rather implausible for him not to think about it and for Cersei not to bring it up, when she was railing against her predicament of being punished for sexual misconduct because of her gender.

OTOH, we have heard oh, so very casually in... AFFC, I think, that Tywin decided to kill Varys shortly before his own death, so the timing is very suggestive, IMHO.

[Manfryd Lothston]

Varys did try to talk Tyrion out of killing Tywin. Not very hard, but still.

[A wilding]

"Let me take the blindfold off. Yes, the Hand's chambers are up there. They are your father's now. Its a hundred and thirty rungs. Don't go up there! take the tunnel on the right. This is folly! Then forty feet, keep your hand on the wall and you will feel the door. But listen to me ..."

Paraphrasing from memory, but it has always felt to me like a strong steer followed by only token protests.

I don't think Varys actually showed Shae how to operate any of the secret doors. He also blindfolded her the time he took her to the Hand's bedroom.

[Honor is a Horse]

I don't think that Varys wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin. Sure it helps add to the chaos that will help pave the way for Aegon or whatever his true goal is but it makes things harder for him also. If only Tyrion escapes he may be able to play it off as a Tyrell plot or something but with Tywin dead that makes it much harder, He is no longer able to operate on the council but he must now pull strings from the shadows which makes his job more difficult.

To answer the OP's question, No I don't think she was Tywin's all along. How is she supposed to get information to Tywin, I doubt she can even read or write. The only thing worthy of hiding that Tyrion might have tried to keep from Tywin that Shae would even know about it having a whore with him in the city. We have no evidence that Shae knew of Tyrions other schemes such as sending Myrcella to Dorne or grabbing Tommen on the Rosby road, he would probably keep those things from Shae for her protection. Not a very valuable spy considering she didn't know anything.

[Gannicus]

Shea in the book is way different than Shea in the show. In the book you could see right through her. She was always asking about her jewels, going to parties, ect. a whore. The character in the show seems to like/love Tyrion and even puts herself on the line for Sansa. The show will not be the same you can go to the bank with that.

There is no chance she was Tywin's spy. There is a chance she was with Varys. But I really think she was just a whore. We're pretty certain Tywin some whores himself so it seems like a reasonable assessment that She and the big daddy were just getting down to business.

[Maia]

I don't think Varys actually showed Shae how to operate any of the secret doors. He also blindfolded her the time he took her to the Hand's bedroom.

When Tyrion met Shae in Varys's room in ASOS she told him where the secret door was (hidden under/behind Varys's bed) and how it could be opened. So, clearly, Varys did show Shae how to operate some secret doors. Whether the one leading to bedchamber of the Hand was among them is anybody's guess. But IMHO, this scene is a strong hint that it could have been.

If only Tyrion escapes he may be able to play it off as a Tyrell plot or something but with Tywin dead that makes it much harder, He is no longer able to operate on the council but he must now pull strings from the shadows which makes his job more difficult.

We learned in AFFC, or was it ADwD? that Tywin was (finally) going to have Varys killed, so not only was Varys retiring to the shadows inevitable, but this way he managed to do it with a bang and seriously/fatally damage Lannister cause in the process.

[jon rr stark]

Shae was in Tywins bed and Varys clearly steers Tyrion to the Tywin. Why did Tywin have the S***s, perhaps because Varys arranged his food tampered, he then placed Shae in Tywins bed while Tywin was crapping knowing this will be the final straw to get Tyrion to kill Tywin with the conviently placed crossbow.

[Pellaeon]

Shae was in Tywins bed and Varys clearly steers Tyrion to the Tywin. Why did Tywin have the S***s, perhaps because Varys arranged his food tampered, he then placed Shae in Tywins bed while Tywin was crapping knowing this will be the final straw to get Tyrion to kill Tywin with the conviently placed crossbow.

IMO Varys want to free Tyrion later that night and lead him to Tywins chambers to show him Tywin sleeping (in the nonnsexual meening) with Shae, he planned to seperate Tyron from his last feelings for his father and send him to Aegon. But Jaime destroy this plan. I think Varys never wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin because of the impact this would have on his psyche, he wanted Tyrion rageing and wanted to use this to bring him on his side for his endgame. He could kil Tywin later and Cersei would still believe it was Tyrion what would lead to her downfall. Tyrion comes back with Aegon and beome a loyal Lord of the Rock, or at least one in Varys debts

[jon rr stark]

IMO Varys want to free Tyrion later that night and lead him to Tywins chambers to show him Tywin sleeping (in the nonnsexual meening) with Shae, he planned to seperate Tyron from his last feelings for his father and send him to Aegon. But Jaime destroy this plan. I think Varys never wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin because of the impact this would have on his psyche, he wanted Tyrion rageing and wanted to use this to bring him on his side for his endgame. He could kil Tywin later and Cersei would still believe it was Tyrion what would lead to her downfall. Tyrion comes back with Aegon and beome a loyal Lord of the Rock, or at least one in Varys debts

Perhaps, but the risk in this plan is Tyrion wakes Tywin, which would lead to Tyrion been captured. This situation has too much uncontrolled variables to ensure Varys gets the outcome he requires. Also Varys would want the same outcome as killing Kevan, as Tywin would undoubtly bring stability and be a much tougher proposition to remove from KL.

[Pellaeon]

Perhaps, but the risk in this plan is Tyrion wakes Tywin, which would lead to Tyrion been captured. This situation has too much uncontrolled variables to ensure Varys gets the outcome he requires. Also Varys would want the same outcome as killing Kevan, as Tywin would undoubtly bring stability and be a much tougher proposition to remove from KL.

With a little, what was the name of the drink LF gave Sweetrobin, Varys could make shure Tyrion wouldn't wake Tywin, and like I said killing Tywin himself a day later or even later that evening would be suffice

[jon rr stark]

OK that works, however he wasnt asleep. Perhaps it is just a convient way of getting rid of Shae

[Pellaeon]

OK that works, however he wasnt asleep. Perhaps it is just a convient way of getting rid of Shae

Yes Jaime was to soon, Varys most likely planed to go later, just a bad timing coincident

[A wilding]

The old question as to whether Varys intended Tyrion to kill Tywin...

A few points:

It is hard to believe Varys was indifferent as to whether Tywin lived or died. A living Tywin repairs, stabilises and strengthens the Iron Throne. A dead one means Cersei drives it into the ground. We now have Varys' monologue at the end of AFfC in which he explains killing Kevan for exactly this reason.

When Tywin found out about Tyrion's escape he immediately deduced Varys was responsible and declared that he would have his head for it.

It was always going to be difficult both to get Tyrion to serve Dany and to get Dany to accept him. Tyrion killing his father definitely helped the latter at least.

[FanTasy]

I never got why Tyrion brought Shae. Just frequent Chataya's, dude.

Why? Fear, I suspect.

Fear of seeing loathing in the eyes of the girls that work at Chataya.

Fear of being hurt again.

I think Tyrion wanted very much to believe that Shae saw him as a man who happened to be a dwarf, not primarily as a dwarf.

Part of him never believed she did, but he wanted it very much to be so. And the arrangement they made was too tempting, I guess.

[FanTasy]

From perceiving Shae's actions in the books, it seems like Tyrion was truly smitten by Shae (obviously), but Shae was with Tyrion purely to experience life at KL inside the Red Keep, live a better life, in a possibly better place than where she was picked up from. So after Tyrion was accused by Cersei for killing Joffrey, Shae turned on him when Cersei offered her something in return (any idea what it was? I can't see to recall), thus she turned on Tyrion. Because she didn't love him truly, just his position and power.

But why would Shae soon after be sleeping with Tywin? Was it just a job? Or more?

Again: fear, mixed with opportunism (imo).

[Natalie_S]

From perceiving Shae's actions in the books, it seems like Tyrion was truly smitten by Shae (obviously), but Shae was with Tyrion purely to experience life at KL inside the Red Keep, live a better life, in a possibly better place than where she was picked up from. So after Tyrion was accused by Cersei for killing Joffrey, Shae turned on him when Cersei offered her something in return (any idea what it was? I can't see to recall), thus she turned on Tyrion. Because she didn't love him truly, just his position and power.

But why would Shae soon after be sleeping with Tywin? Was it just a job? Or more?

I think that Shae thought that bedding Tywin was a huge career move: she wanted to be the mistress of some important lord, but she couldn't be "officially" Tyrion's lover because Tywin would forbid it.

So the next move is logical: if Tywin is the one in charge of who's whose mistress, sleep with Tywin.

Except I don't think it was such a smart move anyway, because we know how Tywin feels about prostitutes that want to move up the social ladder, and he's not emotionally available like Tyrion.