Heresy 21

[Eyron]

This thread started out as "The Wall, the Watch and a heresy" last year.

Creator is Black Crow, I'm simply taking the reins to start us off again in the 21st incarnation of the topic.

This is a short introduction, and at the bottom of the OP you can find Black Crow's more full introduction from the last threadlet.

This thread is kind of sprawling at points, but we mostly circle around back to the issue of the Others/White Walkers and the Starks, their wolves, the Wall and the Watch, The Andals and First men, the Children of the Forest and the Old races, and the history and stories of Westeros. Oh also the maesters, the free folks, the seasons and magic in general and some other small matters, like Azor Ahai Reborn, the prophecies and what's up with these dragons. The latter three topics are not the main focus. We really mostly keep to how all these matters are connected, and keep a wide perspective.

Cracked pots are not frowned upon, as long as they are somewhat related to what we are discussing of course. The participants are as wide ranging in their ideas as the topics themselves, and while there are some common ground, we are not of the same mind in all things.

There is an ongoing debate on what the Others are, why they want to come south and what motivates them. We know so little and we are eager to know, and in the long wait between books, why not try to piece together what we have learnt throughout the books? We are also currently discussing if the Starks are somehow connected historically to the forces of Ice, among other things.

The participants on this thread have looked at a lot of mythology and historical contexts that we know or believe that GRRM found some inspiration from, mostly just for fun, but also sometimes put flesh to our reasoning. The ASoIaF is undoubtedly not a carbon copy of any mythos or historical events in any way, but there are some interesting parallels that we have looked into.

The Heresy threads are very wide-ranging in scope, reflecting the breadth and complexity of GRRM’s story itself, but are usually concerned with exploring the Song of Ice and Fire rather than the Game of Thrones, and in particular with looking at the nature of Ice and those who serve it.

From Black Crow's introduction of the previous threadlet.

Links to all the earlier threads can be found here.

Let the heresy begin.

[Eyron]

The last two posts from the former thread, to start us off:

Ok I'll run with this but first a disclaimer for those who remain uptight; this will be crackpottry speculation for fun so deal with it! :)

Going off of Sadow Fox's idea about how WW are created then why not say this is why the Wall was built to stop any of these lost souls from turning into WW? Obviously the wildings have not helped and the way they steal women from south of the Wall adds to the troubles. Think about it though, the Wall does not seem to stop very much and it should stop something so maybe it's this. :dunno:

Wights activated south of the Wall, Bran and Bloodraven can mess with things like dreams and such either way, direwolves and giants can pass, heck the magical Wall does not even stop Mel and maybe not dragons either. What are the two "magical" things that have been stopped? One is Coldhands who could be warged or it could have only been the Black Gate that was a barrier for him. The other was when Jon and Ghost were seperated when Jon scaled the Wall...Jon could not sense Ghost anymore...

Could it stand to crazy, crackpot, heretic reason that the only magic the Wall protects against is a warg "reaching out" trying to cross the barrier? Well that was my board fun for the day :D

Building off of my recent idea, perhaps that is why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell--they are naturally powerful wargs and therefore have a natural dominance/predisposed tolerance to warg connections. They are the only bloodline ensured to resist a warg pushing them out of their bodies, therefore are the perfect combatant for the White Walkers.

Now to get into some real speculation:

The maesters figured this all out at one point and chose to eliminate wargs as much as possible, rather than allow the Starks to be the watchers in the North. So they hatch a scheme to mix the bloodline: cue the Cat-Brandon betrothal.

This would basically eliminate them in the Seven Kingdoms and limit them to North of the Wall, where the wildlings and the old races can fight all they want, so long as it stays North of the Wall.

[mrazny]

I'm not sure if you've called off all posting in these threads, Spoony, but part of what confused me was the seeming lack of specificity with some of your questions. I think it started with specific inquiries to BC's position on the Faerie and Tam Lin and all that, but towards the end it seemed to lose some of its focus on that particular issue, or at least was implying that you had reservations beyond that particular argument but weren't voicing the specifics. I personally wasn't following the specifics of some of your issues, so whether that was this thread going to fast or just a lost in the wash aspect, I'm not sure. I don't think you should feel an aversion to challenges, I just know that I need some good basis to discuss.

I try to not discount my first impression in stories without giving them too credence either; the first time through the Night's King story just had more gravity and feel of substance than the other legends. Not to say it was word for word accurate, but just that it *was* the story of the Watch divided from the North. Whether it was an over-demonizing of a foe with the talk of sleeping with the White Walker, or because of a more tangible connection or alliance with the White Walkers?

Did these threads ever cover this annoying ground? ;

The possibilities of Varys being a Blackfyre himself? Though it would be seemingly off-topic, his motivations are good world building ground, and when Varys seems to know too much and taking over a post once taken on my Bloodraven, he does come into our focus a bit. More hidden targs and blackfyres though do start taking on a numbing quality.

[Lummel]

No I don't think we have discussed here the possibility of Varys being a Targaryen/Blackfyre. I'm not sure how he would fit in here. We don't know of him having dragon dreams. He doesn't seem so dismissive iirc in ACOK of news of the wights but that's not a lot to go on.

Sure he knows a lot, but isn't what he knows Westeros contemporary politics?

[redriver]

Summer spirits.What are they?

[Lannister Hamster]

No I don't think we have discussed here the possibility of Varys being a Targaryen/Blackfyre. I'm not sure how he would fit in here. We don't know of him having dragon dreams. He doesn't seem so dismissive iirc in ACOK of news of the wights but that's not a lot to go on.

Sure he knows a lot, but isn't what he knows Westeros contemporary politics?

I would say the whole Varys/Blackfyre debate is a bit too micro for heresy.

Does anyone think the whole ironborn ressurection thing is anything more than mouth to mouth resuscitation or that it has a magical factor like the ressurecting of the wights or the UnCat/UnBeric?

[FittleLinger]

I would say the whole Varys/Blackfyre debate is a bit too micro for heresy.

Does anyone think the whole ironborn ressurection thing is anything more than mouth to mouth resuscitation or that it has a magical factor like the ressurecting of the wights or the UnCat/UnBeric?

I've always seen it as a simple CPR, and IMO the only manifestation of Drowned God powers we have for now, are the prophetic powers of Damphair and Patchface. Then again, we don't know if it was the Drowned God, or simply the near-death experience (like with Bran) that triggered it. So I think we have yet to see Drowned God's powers.

[DragonSpawn]

I've always seen it as a simple CPR, and IMO the only manifestation of Drowned God powers we have for now, are the prophetic powers of Damphair and Patchface. Then again, we don't know if it was the Drowned God, or simply the near-death experience (like with Bran) that triggered it. So I think we have yet to see Drowned God's powers.

It could be the near death experience that unlocks the powers but part of me thinks that may be more to do with a particular sense that you lose. I did wonder that, as thralls of the great other, whether the Ironborn CPR practice is related to giving or taking someones life fire, but hard to know till we actually read it in the books... I've been reviewing a couple of Theons DwD chapters and it seems that his loss of identity may have triggered an ability to see the truth in others. Almost prophetic - an ability to see death coming... He sees the feast of the Dead much earlier in the story... but then ... i hope sees something prophetic in this chapter as well...

The Prince in Winterfell

“Icicles, as long as lances, hung from the battlements, and fringed the towers like an old man’s stiff white whispers. But inside the godswood the ground remained unfrozen and steam rose from the hot pools. As warm as baby’s breath. The bride was garbed in white and grey, the colours the true Arya would have worn had she lived long enough to wed. Theon wore black and gold, his cloak pinned to his shoulder by a crude iron kraken, that a smith in Barrowton had hammered together for him. But under the hood his hair was white and thin, and his flesh had an old man’s greyish undertone. A stark at last, he thought. Arm in arm the bride and he passed through an arched stone door, as wisps of fog stirred round their legs. The drum was tremulous as a maidens heart. The pipes, high and sweet and beckoning. Up above the tree-tops the crescent moon was floating in a dark sky, half obscured by mist. Like an eye, peering through a veil of silk. Theon Greyjoy was no stranger to this godswood. He had played here as a boy, skipping stones across the cold black pool beneath the Weirwood. Hiding his treasures in the bowl of an ancient oak. Stalking squirrels with a bow he made himself. Later, older, he had soaked his bruises in the hot springs after many a session in the yard with Robb and Jory and Jon Snow…”

“…He had never seen the godswood like this though. Grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights, and whispered voices that seem to come from everywhere and nowhere. Beneath the trees the hot springs steamed. Warm vapours rose from the earth, shrouding the trees in their moist breath. Creeping up the Walls to draw grey curtains across the watching windows….”

“…Jeyne… her name is Jeyne, it rhymes with pain…”

“The mists were so thick that only the nearest trees were visible. Beyond them stood tall shadows, and faint lights. Candles flickered beside the wandering path and back amongst the trees. Pale fireflies floating in a warm grey soup. It felt like some strange underworld, some timeless place between the worlds, where the damned wondered mournfully for a time before finding their way down to, whatever hell their sins had earned them. Are we all dead then? Did Stannis come and kill us in our sleep? Is the battle yet to come? Or has it been fought and lost?”

“Here and there a torch burned hungrily, casting its ruddy glow over the face of the wedding guests. The way the mists threw back the shifting light, made their features seem bestial, half human, twisted. Lord Stout became a mastiff, Old Lord Locke a Vulture, Whoresbane Umber, a gargoyle, Big Walder Frey, a fox, Little Walder, a Red Bull, lacking only a ring for his nose. Roose Boltons own face was a pale grey mask, with two chips of dirty Ice where his eyes should be. Above their heads the trees were full of ravens, their feathers fluffed as they sat on bare brown branches, staring down at the pageantry below…”

… “Theon” a voice seemed to whisper. His head snapped up, “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghosts… How many died the day he took Winterfell? How many more, the day he lost it? The day that Theo Greyjoy died, to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek it rhymes with shriek! Suddenly, he did not want to be here… once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf, and caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the great hall. Hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunched beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood, as if a Ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face. Winterfell was full of ghosts for Theon Greyjoy, this was not the castle he remembered from the summer of his youth, this place was scarred and broken. More ruined than robust. A haunt of crows and corpses. “

“… The Stark colours… Theon did not know whether to find that ominous or reassuring… even the sky was grey. Grey and grey and greyer… the whole world grey. Everywhere you look, everything grey… except the eyes of the bride. They were big and brown and full of fear. It was not right that she should look to him for rescue. What had she been thinking? That he would whistle up a winged horse and fly her out of here, like a hero from the stories she and Sansa used to love!? He could not even help himself… Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek…”

“..outside in the godswood a raven screamed. Theon sheathed his knife and bent to his task.”

Note: boring bits removed

Things i noticed from this:

• "Are we all dead then" - hopefully prophetic like his earlier vision...
  
• "Dirty Ice" - Rooses eyes suggests this is not a pure Ice like the Starks but a dirty and corrupted, version...
  
• "There are tall shadows in the woods", "A timeless place", "an underworld" - Faerie land?
  
• Cresent moon = Eye (But who is watching?) - a guess would be "the Mother" - in both this chapter and the 'Ghost in Winterfell' chapter - Theon has an interaction with Snow in the same way Sansa gets the snowflake sacrament... only Theon doesn't build a castle - he meets the hooded man... at the exact moment he feels "at peace"
  
• Also interesting is that Theon inter-relates Gods and ghosts... and finally sees himself to be 'grey' enough to be a Stark (possibly because he is now right with the gods having suffered under the Dreadfort)
  

It really wouldn't surprise me if Sansa and Theon both developed an ability to see the truth in people. Theon as he is driven to "know your name".. and Sansa, because she is surrounded by lies all the time. Also: "The Stark colours… Theon did not know whether to find that ominous or reassuring" - Sound like a typical heretic to me! :)

ETA:

Jaime: “Do you believe in ghosts Maester?” he asked Qyburn. The old man’s face grew strange. “Once, at the citadel, I came into an empty room and saw an empty chair. Yet I knew a woman had been there, only a moment before. The cushion was dented where she sat, the cloth was still worn and her scent lingered in the air. If we leave our smells behind us when we leave a room, surely something of our souls must remain when we leave this life?” Qyburn spread his hands. “The Archmaesters did not like my thinking though. Well… Marwyn did, but he was the only one…”

[nanother]

Yay, shiny new thread! Moving conversation over here from the old one:

A question and a thought:

If my understanding of the timeline is correct, the Others appeared for the first time in during the Long Night (according to Old Nan). The Long Night was after the Hammer of the Waters? J/N

The CotF caused the Hammer of the Waters. Since the CotF are associated with earth and the counter element is water, I speculate the CotF caused the imbalanced seasons when they created the Hammer of the Waters by magic. In real life, the mass of the moon causes the tide. Did the mass of the Hammer of the Waters cause the Westeros moon to split open and birth the dragons as legends tell?

Apparently there were two Hammers, one against the First Men and thus before the Long Night, the other one against the Andals (presumably), attempting to break the Neck. Interesting that there's an invasion of Others (or what looks like an impending one) supposedly a few thousand years after each, but at this point it's hard to tell whether there's a connection.

Not sure about the Moon, it doesn't seem likely to me (it'd make more sense if there was only one hammer).

I'm not even sure water is actually a 'counter'-element to earth...they don't seem to be opposed in any way, not like ice and fire. Also, from the tale of the Kinght of the Smiling Tree:

“Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people.”

Bran was almost certain he had never heard this story. “Did he have green dreams like Jojen?”

“No,” said Meera, “but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear.”

ETA speaking of cracking the Moon, according to Salla's tale about AA it was him...or rather, Nissa Nissa (doesn't mention dragons, though):

‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel.

Edit: I hope I finally managed to correct all the stupid mistakes in my post, but I seem to spot another one everytime I submit the changes :bang:

[Eyron]

Oh, I was just going to bring over a quote from you Nanother from the other thread :) No need now.

I think you are right about earth and water not being opposing forces, but I don't think that is what alienarea meant. Correct me if I'm wrong alienarea but you meant 'counter-element' as in the pairing in the Reeds oath?

Those elements are under the Childrens domain, and the Children are keepers of balance. We know water has been used as a weapon, at least that has been suggested in the old stories. We know that the earth can be used as a shelter, and that the godswood in Winterfell does not freeze or burn, a place of earth and water.

It has been suggested earlier that earth is a protective force and water is a destructive force, like ice is preserving and fire is consuming according to Aemon. Since ice is also seemingly a destructive force, perhaps this is not an accurate parallel, but perhaps the protective elements can be wrongfully used as means of destruction too. Or perhaps the preserving force of ice is just that, trying to preserve rather than destroy, meaning gaining back something that was lost to them for the purpose of balance. I'm not sure this is what is happening, but I don't think it's too far fetched. The forces of ice and fire are unbalanced and have been for thousands of years probably, the forces of earth and water seems to be more in balance, with the exceptions of the Hammers of water perhaps.

That quote you posted from the Reeds make it seem like Howland Reed was a Wood dancer almost. Perhaps the crannogmen are their descendants, and some still having the traits of the singers of the Children, like Jojen.

[nanother]

It has been suggested earlier that earth is a protective force and water is a destructive force, like ice is preserving and fire is consuming according to Aemon. Since ice is also seemingly a destructive force, perhaps this is not an accurate parallel, but perhaps the protective elements can be wrongfully used as means of destruction too. Or perhaps the preserving force of ice is just that, trying to preserve rather than destroy, meaning gaining back something that was lost to them for the purpose of balance. I'm not sure this is what is happening, but I don't think it's too far fetched. The forces of ice and fire are unbalanced and have been for thousands of years probably, the forces of earth and water seems to be more in balance, with the exceptions of the Hammers of water perhaps.

Not sure about that, It's true that water was used for destruction, but it's also associated with giving life...although the only example of that I remember off the top of my head is the Dothraki lake (Womb of the World? I'm certain about the 'womb' bit) where the first man emerged from. And at least IRL, earth can be rather destructive as well, although I agree that in-story (at least in Old God lore) it's clearly protective.

But, where does that leave bronze and iron? They bth can be protective or destructive depending n whether it's armour or weapon yu make...

...although, now that I typed that, it comes back to me that an article I was reading about the history of using iron (the things ASOIAF makes me do!) pointed out that in the beginning, iron objects were mostly ornamental, as the technology of working bronze was so much more developed that bronze items were far superior for actual use. Obviously, I'm paraphrasing and it's probably wildly inaccurate, but the gist of it is, the FM might have used bronze for their weapons/armour, but iron for protection from...spirits and whatever else.

I'm not really convinced, though.

[Blisscraft]

I'm not sure that this is relevant to the iron/bronze use in Westeros, but iron is generally the bane of fairy folk. There are many parallels to the fae and COF.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Did these threads ever cover this annoying ground? ;

The possibilities of Varys being a Blackfyre himself? Though it would be seemingly off-topic, his motivations are good world building ground, and when Varys seems to know too much and taking over a post once taken on my Bloodraven, he does come into our focus a bit. More hidden targs and blackfyres though do start taking on a numbing quality.

No I don't think we have discussed here the possibility of Varys being a Targaryen/Blackfyre. I'm not sure how he would fit in here. We don't know of him having dragon dreams. He doesn't seem so dismissive iirc in ACOK of news of the wights but that's not a lot to go on.

Sure he knows a lot, but isn't what he knows Westeros contemporary politics?

There is something concerning Varys and possibly Bloodraven that I can't remember if we have discussed before, it is far fetched but that is what why I like it! :) I don't know if this would matter whether or not Varys is a Blackfyre though. This is from when Varys kills Kevan...

The rest was shrouded in shadow … except beneath the open window, where a spray of ice crystals glittered in the moonlight, swirling in the wind. On the window seat a raven loitered, pale, huge, its feathers ruffled. It was the largest raven that Kevan Lannister had ever seen. Larger than any hunting

hawk at Casterly Rock, larger than the largest owl. Blowing snow danced around it, and the moon

painted it silver.

Not silver. White. The bird is white.

The white ravens of the Citadel did not carry messages, as their dark cousins did. When they went forth from Oldtown, it was for one purpose only: to herald a change of seasons.

“Winter,” said Ser Kevan. The word made a white mist in the air. He turned away from the window.

Then something slammed him in the chest between the ribs, hard as a giant’s fist. It drove the

breath from him and sent him lurching backwards. The white raven took to the air, its pale wings

slapping him about the head. Ser Kevan half-sat and half-fell onto the window seat. What … who … A quarrel was sunk almost to the fletching in his chest. No. No, that was how my brother died. Blood was seeping out around the shaft. “Pycelle,” he muttered, confused. “Help me … I …”

First, for the heretics, the snow is dancing around the raven. Then it has been speculated that Bloodraven was present through the raven. Then the question is did Varys know and was the "for the children" speech meant for Bloodraven? Kevan was going to die anyway so why bother giving him important information? If this is possible what does it mean? Again I know it's out there but it's fun! :)

[7V3N]

I would say the whole Varys/Blackfyre debate is a bit too micro for heresy.

Does anyone think the whole ironborn ressurection thing is anything more than mouth to mouth resuscitation or that it has a magical factor like the ressurecting of the wights or the UnCat/UnBeric?

I mentioned recently that I suspected AA was someone from Asshai, who sailed East around the world to the Iron Islands where he drowned from a shipwreck or something. Then someone revived him through CPR of the fire kiss and formed the Drowned God religion. Then AA went East to Westeros and got involved in the fight against the Others.

[Lummel]

I'm not sure that this is relevant to the iron/bronze use in Westeros, but iron is generally the bane of fairy folk. There are many parallels to the fae and COF.

Pretty sure it is significant in Westeros too - iron swords are said to keep the spirits of the dead starks from wandering from their tombs down in the winterfell crypts.

[Sword Of Mid Afternoon]

As I've mentioned, I'm a Tolkien fan... and I'm reading Chris Tolkien's "History of Middle Earth" compilations....

Last night I was reading about the Spirit and Body, fëa and hröa.

The hröa is the physical body which the spirit, the fëa, inhabits. When the hröa expires, the fëa is freed... it can then return to Aman (realm of the Valar) for judgement and be reborn after a time into a new hröa. Some elves, however, having been corrupted by Morgoth, or for their own less-evil reasons, choose not to return to Aman forf judgement. These errant fëar (fëar = plural of fëa) remain in Middle Earth, they are mostly invisible (some people can see them, but even then they only appear as dim, translucent, and ethereal somethings....not terribly unlike a mist.) and can attempt to forcibly incorporate themselves into people, plants, and things.

This instantly reminded me of the various discussions we've had with the WW-as-spirits theory, warging, human warging, Weirnet, and aseveral other related topics..... No doubt this had an impact of GRRM.

You can find a far superior explanation of the fëar and hröar here...

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/F%C3%ABa_and_hr%C3%B6a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%ABa_and_hr%C3%B6a

[Ser Leftwich]

In our discussions a few Heresies back, about trauma and opening of the third eye, we covered Bran, Euron, and Mors Umber. Did we ever discuss Patchface? He is definitely prophetic and do his powers grow since he is in near the Wall, as Mel says hers do.

On Ice and Fire and Earth and Water: Ice is conditional on water. As Fire is conditional on earth (this one is more of a stretch, think volcanic earth or fuel for fire being plants/wood from the earth). Extrapolating further, Ice and Fire are extremes of weather/seasons and the extreme of magic: zombies and un-People, dragons and WW.

I am getting back on the direction of going too far magically by some or all parties involved, which goes back to just the CotF saving the day, which is too simple. But the clues keep pointing towards some excessive magical action. Frustrated.

What is it that has been forgotten at Winterfell, but is remembered in the Neck?

[DragonSpawn]

Just to add a small detail that may / may not be relevant on hammer of waters stuff...

When Robb and Cat are discussing who will be Robbs heir should he die without issue... when Cat starts moaning about Jon and how he could be another 'blackfyre' for the Starks and could cause them problems for 5 generations as well... Grey Wind jumps onto the statue of (Tristefer?) - 'The Hammer of Justice' who was one of the last Kings to be routed out of the lands below the neck by 7 Andal Kings who stood together to defeat him... and GW started growling at her... I wonder if the Hammer of Justice is a bit like the hammer of the Waters or if his defeat was what caused the CotF to bring down the HotW and close the neck? Also - could be a sneaky hint that Jon is the Hammer of Justice to come out of the North?

[Sword Of Mid Afternoon]

Pretty sure it is significant in Westeros too - iron swords are said to keep the spirits of the dead starks from wandering from their tombs down in the winterfell crypts.

Iron in the blood that the WW hate.

[nenya~]

As I've mentioned, I'm a Tolkien fan... and I'm reading Chris Tolkien's "History of Middle Earth" compilations....

Last night I was reading about the Spirit and Body, fëa and hröa.

The hröa is the physical body which the spirit, the fëa, inhabits. When the hröa expires, the fëa is freed... it can then return to Aman (realm of the Valar) for judgement and be reborn after a time into a new hröa. Some elves, however, having been corrupted by Morgoth, or for their own less-evil reasons, choose not to return to Aman forf judgement. These errant fëar (fëar = plural of fëa) remain in Middle Earth, they are mostly invisible (some people can see them, but even then they only appear as dim, translucent, and ethereal somethings....not terribly unlike a mist.) and can attempt to forcibly incorporate themselves into people, plants, and things.

This instantly reminded me of the various discussions we've had with the WW-as-spirits theory, warging, human warging, Weirnet, and aseveral other related topics..... No doubt this had an impact of GRRM.

Yes, I think warging may have something to do with the soul. When Varamyr dies he starts to sort of merge with nature, but ultimately his spirit enters the wolf since he's a skinchanger. What happens to the soul of someone who's not a skinchanger?

I've wondered if a wight's soul is trapped inside their body after they die which could be why they have some type of memory of their past. Instead of the Others warging the wights, as has been suggested, they simply bind their soul. Can a body function without a soul? When Varamyr dies and is in his wolf he mentions how Thistle sees him, but there's no mention of seeing his own body as a wight.

Binding an soul to a "dead" body could lead to corruption...Wights, Undead Cat, Robert Strong, etc. Can't think of any other examples...Patchface, Coldhands? Coldhands doesn't seem to be corrupted as the others though, so who knows.