Reading from The World of Ice and Fire

[Bushido]

25-27 yrs old,since the system of time is debatable.

[Free Northman]

The most interesting thing is what degree of Old Magic the Starks still had access to which inspired Brandon Snow to take three branches from the weirwood and fasion it into arrows.

Where did he learn that weirwood arrows might damage dragons? Clearly there was some basis for this belief.

And also, why did Torhenn choose against it, when that had clearly been part of the plan from the start? Torhenn's story is the most compelling and mysterios to me out of this entire saga.

After making an issue out of the Starks' uniquely retaining their independence for thousands of years while all the other First Men kingdoms fell around them, Torhenn's surrender is strangely meek and anti-climactic in comparison to the North's proud history.

There must be a lot more to this story that we don't know yet. My personal belief is that Torhenn had a prophecy about Jon one day being born from a unification between the Stark and Targaryen lines, and that his surrender - while his name would go down in disgrace for all eternity - would only lead to a relatively short (300 year) subjugation for the Starks, before they achieved kingship again while saving the world at the same time through their sacrifice.

I really want to hear more about this aspect of the story.

[Trebla]

I've tweaked Trebla's report with a couple of corrections, here. The text says two score houses, not two great houses, vied with one another. The Targaryens were one of those two score, but not counted among the greatest of them.

Thanks, Ran! It was difficult to write since so much info coming out so fast. u

Usually at tone of these readings, a mood is set and you can put paragraphs into a single sentence. Here the facts were rapid fired so anytime I was writing like mad or a fact gave me reason to ponder, I would find that I missed something.

[Ran]

One of the biggest mysteries is still unexplained

A later sidebar explains this.

I'd like to know about how House Velaryon survived the doom, too. Were they somehow tied with the Targaryens and followed them to the exile? Were they the wardens of the Freehold's western border at the Dragonstone castle beforehand?

Also explained in a later sidebar.

I'm disappointed we haven't got a mention of House Qoherys. With this Valyrian sounding name and since they were granted Harrenhal after Harren, I was sure they had been prominent supporters in the conquest.

Later sidebar.

I wonder now if the Celtigars and Masseys are of Valyrian origins too, as they were honored in Aegon's first small council. I tend to think that they weren't, but they came under Targaryen rule early on expecting better treatment than under the Durrendons or the Arryns.

Celtigars were Valyrian, Masseys were not.

It's weird that during the battle of the Last Storm Visenya was riding Meraxes, and not Vhagar. Could it be a confusion?

Transcription error. Rhaenys is meant (corrected in the SSM)).

Another think that may be clarified in the future is how to reconcile "Rosby and Stokeworth and the castles surrendered without bloodshed. Darklyn of Duskendale and Mooton of Maidenpool did fight." with Jon Mooton being "the first lord to come over".

The text is "one of the first foes to come over".

We now know the name of all the last kings of the Seven Kingdoms: Torrhen Stark "the King Who Knelt", Meryn Gardener, Lorren Lannister, Argilac Durrendon "the Arrogant", Harren Hoare "the Black", Ronnel Arryn and Mirram Martell "the Yellow Toad of Dorne".

It's actually Meria Martell, unless GRRM has tweaked the name since we saw what he called the final draft. Treb, how sure are you on Merriam? Anyone else attend the reading want to weigh in on that?

Aegon's was only 27 when he started the conquest, and 64 when he died. It'd be really interesting to know what happened in the late part of his reign, with the competition between Rhaenys/Aenys and Visenya/Maegor.

Yep.

I would like to know at which point of his reign Aegon created the Kingsguard, and who where their first members.

Later sidebar.

Basically, a lot of things get answered later. :)

[Ciazio]

A later sidebar explains this.

Also explained in a later sidebar.

Later sidebar.

Later sidebar.

:commie: The booook!!! I want it!!! :commie:

LOL

[Lord Varys]

The Hairy Bear,

my guess is that the Targaryens never converted to Westerosi before the Dance of Dragons (and then only because they lost their dragons and were forced to do so by their guardians).

The other report from queensansa indicated that all of Aegon's ancestors on Dragonstone ruled as co-regents together with their sister-wives. Dragonstone and its surrounding holdings were likely ruled and administered the same way the Valyrians back in the Freehold managed their private property. Only Aegon and his sisters became kings and queens in the Westerosi fashion, and apparently Aegon did rule only in name. A Law of Succession was not really important when the Targaryens on Dragonstone were more or less a family enterprise, technically run by the head of the family (who seems to be always male).

Back in the Freehold of Valyria women would have been powerful members of the aristocracy, especially if they rode their own dragons (and if their became dowagers, and run the family business in the name of their children), but I assume the Valyrian triarchs would also have been mostly male.

As long as the Targaryens still had dragons, the rule was shared with the sister-queens (we have Visenya and Rhaenys, and Good Queen Alysanne, who apparently very much run the shots at their courts), and Rhaenyra Targaryen was Viserys's only surviving child from his first queen (an Arryn, if GRRM hasn't changed that). She was the chosen successor of her father, and it might very well be that she had a better claim through her mother (who might very well have had Targaryen ancestors as well, I'd not be surprised if a daughter of Visenya's did become little Ronnel Arryn's wife), but the important thing is that until the Dance no Targaryen king seemed to perceive his daughters as unfit to rule. The whole point of those incest marriages was to ensure that a royal couple ruled, not a monarch with a queen whose sole purpose was to bear his children.

I'd also not be surprised if Rhaenys de facto ruled during the reign of her son, Aenys I, Aegon's elder son. And it's still unknown whether Jaehaerys I immediate heir was a son or a daughter. Jaehaerys I outlived his eldest child, Viserys I was his grandson.

Ran,

if I remember ACoK correctly, Aegon did not alone melt Harrenhal to the ground. He was accompanied either by Rhaenys or Visenya (Rhaenys, if I'm not mistaken). Only on the Field of Fire all three dragons were unleashed, but at Harrenhal were two dragons, not one.

[Ran]

Varys,

Arya is the source for "Aegon and his dragons" burning Harrenhal. Arya is not a scholar. :)

[Free Northman]

Varys,

Arya is the source for "Aegon and his dragons" burning Harrenhal. Arya is not a scholar. :)

How did Brandon Snow plan to kill the dragons?

[Ran]

Lost in the mists of time.

[The hairy bear]

Thanks a lot Ran, for confirming the unprecedented levels of awesomeness that this book of yours is going to reach! I'm eager for those "later sidebars"!!

[Bushido]

More!

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-full-story-of-targaryen-conquest-in.html?spref=tw&m=1

[Free Northman]

Oh yes, the other VERY interesting bit to me was George's comment that he had to enlarge all the maps to poster size, and because of this he realised the massive open spaces between towns and keeps, and therefore had to think up more places to fill the gaps.

This most obviously applies to the North, where he would now finally have realised (hopefully) that having a single settlement called Karhold in an area as large as England, with 300 miles of empty space to the next settlement, is simply not feasible.

Same goes for the Rills, the Barrowlands, the lands along the White Knife, the lands between Winterfell and Torhenn Square, the Bolton lands, the Hornwood lands, the Umber lands etc. etc.

The point is, hopefully this would have awakened George to the fact that he has up to now simply left out half the North and this in turn will make him realise that there are more people there than he has given credit for up to now.

[Bushido]

Another report!

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2012/09/03-worldcon-grrm-reading-forum/index.html

[Zupoleon]

How did Brandon Snow plan to kill the dragons?

Could it be the arrows that Brandon was making from the Weirwood tree???

Also, I'm probably just missing it, but I'm not seeing where we find out that Argilac's last name is Durrenden?

[Aslerys]

This new details just made my day!!! :D

Can't wait to know more!

[Maia]

Fantastic! I want this book yesterday!

BTW, why were all these people offering marriages to Aegon, when he already had not one, but two wives? Were his marriages seen as illegal due to incest? And was everybody blind to the fact that a spurned ex-wife with a dragon of her own could become a major, major nuisance?

Also, how could Aegon be known as a "great warrior" if he only fought on his dragon and never participated in tourneys?

[Ran]

You know, I speculated at George that everyone figured that if Aegon had two wives, there was nothing preventing him from having three, four, or five...

And he indicated that that was exactly it: all these offers of marriage were not to replace Aegon's marriages to his sisters, but in addition to them. So no ex-wives to worry about.

[Peko]

Also, how could Aegon be known as a "great warrior" if he only fought on his dragon and never participated in tourneys?

The same could be said of Robert Baratheon (except the dragon part), and no one doubted his prowess as a warrior. I'd say battle > tourneys in terms of respect.

[Maia]

And he indicated that that was exactly it: all these offers of marriage were not to replace Aegon's marriages to his sisters, but in addition to them. So no ex-wives to worry about.

But what about inheritance? His sisters were his senior wives and their children were likely to get the family dragons, after all.

While Argella was Argilac's only child and heir.

And Sharra's offer is downright bizarre - why would Aegon want to make his step-son his heir?!

Hm...

[Maia]

The same could be said of Robert Baratheon (except the dragon part), and no one doubted his prowess as a warrior. I'd say battle > tourneys in terms of respect.

Robert did participate in tourneys and won some melees, didn't he? Also, he did fight in several battles normally and demonstrated his prowess. While Aegon seems to have only fought on Balerion.